Steam condenser boilover and figuring out proper power percentage

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birzzz

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HI,

I am using a condenser that is normally used on a still and I have some questions.

Kettle is a SS Brewtech 20 gallons, electric element is 5500W. Since using this setup I have done 2 batches and my boil off rate seems pretty low. I also experienced several boilover especially after adding hops during the boil. Last batch I eneded up setting up to 33% power output, but over the course of 60 minutes boiling, only 3/4 of a gallon has been evaporated. If I bump more than 33% power end up with boilover. Is it normal? should I just adjust my boil off rate in brewfather to account for that? Is 33% within the norm?

Here is my setup, you can see my condenser in the red circle:

1637537532170.png


Thank you in advance,
 
Nothing wrong with 3/4 gallon boil-off. 33% power (~1815W) seems reasonable - people boil 5 gal batches with ~1650W.

Boiling harder provides no real benefits. Hop oil isomerization and DMS elimination depend on time at boiling temp, not how hard you boil. Reduced pre-boil volume (due to less boil-off) will reduce lauter efficiency by a small amount, but this shouldn't be a big issue.

Brew on :mug:
 
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FWIW - I'm doing 5 gallon batches in a 15 gal kettle with a DIY steam condenser (6 or 6.5 gals wort with 5500 watt element). I'd have to keep the power output pretty low like that to prevent boil overs too (30%-ish). With a few drops of Fermcap and a 9 GPH nozzle in the condenser I can turn the power up if I want, and I feel that I get a pretty good boil off rate. Still not as much boil off as an open kettle though.
 
I use the SteamSlayer from BrewHardware on my 15 gallon kettle with 5500W element and boil at 28% power with around 0.75 gallons boiled off in an hour. I think you're fine. Just adjust your boil-off rate in Brewfather to account for it.
 
The tube in tube style condenser is likely not efficient enough for this task. The purpose-built condensers for steam condensing put the coolant water spray in direct contact with the incoming steam.
I am curious about what do you mean by "not efficient enough" exactly? During my first 2 batches with this setup, the liquid exiting the condenser was really cold and I saw almost no vapour exiting the lid. When distilling, the condenser is specifically designed for that purpose, changing vapour to liquid.

Thanks,
 
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I am curious about what do you mean by "not efficient enough" exactly? During my first 2 batches with this setup, the liquid exiting the condenser was really cold and I saw almost no vapour exiting the lid. When distilling, the condenser is specifically designed for that purpose, changing vapour to liquid.

Thanks,

If the liquid is coming out cold then I'm wrong.
 
If the liquid is coming out cold then I'm wrong.


it is indeed coming out cold, but I am just unsure about the right boiloff rate and percentage of power I should apply. I have done several other tests with water yesterday:

Again element is rated at 5500W, boil kettle is 20 gallons and tests were done with 15 gallons of water to start.

power applied / liter per hour
33% / 1.14
40% / 1.62
42% / 1.71
44% / 1.80
48% / 2.10
50% / 2.34
100% / 5.40

What do you think would be the optimal configurations based on those results? I will add anti-foam from now on to avoid boilover as well.

Thanks,
 
I've got a Spike 20 gal BK and 5500W element with a homemade (Brundog) 2" condenser mounted to the side with 9gph nozzle. I last measured 0.9 gal./hr BO with 50% power. That is more than birazz quotes, but using a different condenser design.

[BTW, as long as I keep the initial boil volume to less than 16 gal in the BK (I'm usually around 15 gal.), once I get past the initial boil break period, and using a few drops of FermCap, I never experience boil over events.]
 
it is indeed coming out cold, but I am just unsure about the right boiloff rate and percentage of power I should apply. I have done several other tests with water yesterday:

Again element is rated at 5500W, boil kettle is 20 gallons and tests were done with 15 gallons of water to start.

power applied / liter per hour
33% / 1.14
40% / 1.62
42% / 1.71
44% / 1.80
48% / 2.10
50% / 2.34
100% / 5.40

What do you think would be the optimal configurations based on those results? I will add anti-foam from now on to avoid boilover as well.

Thanks,

The goal isn't to boil off lots of liquid... commercial breweries don't. The goal (noted by @doug293cz above, is to isomerize and burn off volatiles. So put in whatever power is needed to maintain a gentle simmer. It's hard to see it with the lid on, but once you figure it out, it isn't going to change much. Power rates tend to get cut in half-ish when closing the lid and adding a condenser.

BTW, I like the still condenser idea... but where is the heat going? I know its out that red pipe (assuming counterflow), but where that goes?
 
The goal isn't to boil off lots of liquid... commercial breweries don't. The goal (noted by @doug293cz above, is to isomerize and burn off volatiles. So put in whatever power is needed to maintain a gentle simmer. It's hard to see it with the lid on, but once you figure it out, it isn't going to change much. Power rates tend to get cut in half-ish when closing the lid and adding a condenser.

BTW, I like the still condenser idea... but where is the heat going? I know its out that red pipe (assuming counterflow), but where that goes?
It goes down the drain, but the flow is minimal.
 
Seems inline. I have a 24 gallon BK and have around .5-.75 gph boil off with 5500w element @ 31-32%. I set the high alarm to 209f and set temp to 212 on auto mode. Then click over to manual mode when alarm kicks on. I set to 32% and starts to low vigor boil. Takes a bit of fine tuning depending on your elevation/element power but you’ll find that happy medium between boil/no boil. Keep dropping percentage of on-time while test boiling until the boil stops per temp shown on the PID then just go up a percentage or 2 to keep the PID flickering between boil and no boil. My boil temp @ ~846 feet is 210.5 if that helps with your percentage calc.
 
Slight deviation from OPs topic, but is anyone else struggling to deal with hop matter coating the sides of the kettle and lid when the lid is closed/ condenser running? I've dialed in my kettles heating percentage to about 25-30% to get a nice gentle simmer. Any lower and it doesn't have much activity. Even at this slight simmer, the foaming is pretty intense. Not necessarily the same as a boil over, but just large, thin foam that carries a surprisingly high amount of hop material with it, and is left behind as a thick layer across the entire interior. I usually just scrape it off and back into boil, but this is becoming a pain. Any advice?
 
HI,

I am using a condenser that is normally used on a still and I have some questions.

Kettle is a SS Brewtech 20 gallons, electric element is 5500W. Since using this setup I have done 2 batches and my boil off rate seems pretty low. I also experienced several boilover especially after adding hops during the boil. Last batch I eneded up setting up to 33% power output, but over the course of 60 minutes boiling, only 3/4 of a gallon has been evaporated. If I bump more than 33% power end up with boilover. Is it normal? should I just adjust my boil off rate in brewfather to account for that? Is 33% within the norm?

Here is my setup, you can see my condenser in the red circle:

View attachment 749761

Thank you in advance,
Yes, this is normal with a steam condensing lid. My profile for a 15 gallon kettle with a steam condensing lid is set at .6 gallons per hour boil off. Here’s my power schedule: I run 100% power without the lid until the wort starts to boil. Then I reduce power to 60% until the hot break subsides. After the hot break, I put the Lid on and reduce power to 35%. During the last 10 minutes of the boil, I begin to circulate through my counterflow chiller. During the CFC sterilization, I increase power to 45%. Hope this helps. Oh, nice setup!
 
Just an alternative approach, I sanitise the CFC on the way up to the boil. That way I don't need to bump up power at the end, risk spreading hops up the side of kettle.
The minimal amount in CFC and pipes not getting boiled is less than 0.5% total volume.
Also one less thing to remember at the end.
Cutting a view / additions port and fitting a lid is not difficult and allows tuning of that boil power. A few Percent makes a big difference.IMG_20220831_085728.jpg
 

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Recently bought the brewhardware steam slayer for my Anvil 6.5 - working though the use of same. Where did you obtain the view / additions port from?
Great idea. thx
 
It's the top of a kilner clip jar. They come in varying capacities but I think only 3 lid sizes.
I picked the jar up in a charity shop.
https://www.kilnerjar.co.uk/products/clip-top-jars/
I'd recommend you get the lid size you want before making the hole. Hole needs to be bigger than glass bulge on inner aspect of the lid. I flip the seal down which makes the best seal on my brew top as it's slightly curved.
 
Interesting - the "old time flip top" jars we have here in the states (ok, the ones I am used to) have a single flat seal vs a lip seal.
Have to go shopping - thanks
 
Sorry - been away. Thanks for the clarification - it's better than what I had envisioned - same as the old jars with a flat seal.
 
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