Starting out big, New brewer trying an imperial stout recipe

[Imperialpint]

So I'm a new brewer, started a few months ago and have done a couple extract kits, then some extract recipes I've tweaked, and most recently a partial mash ESB recipe I tweaked. I recently had an imperial stout for the first time and immediately was blown away, so of course now I want to make one. I've been looking through recipes and comments, trying to figure out how to create a recipe, and came up with something. Maybe I'm close, maybe I'm way off, but would love to know what experienced brewers think. Looking for a partial mash, and going for a super dark and thick recipe with lots of coffee and roasted chocolate flavor, very slightly sweet but with good bitter balance, and subtle spicy roast aromas. Here goes, and please explain any changes suggested so I can learn why.

1 lb 10 oz - Black (Patent) Malt
12 oz - Chocolate Malt
2 lb - Pale Malt, Maris Otter
1 lb 4.0 oz - Roasted Barley
3 lb - Barley, Flaked
1 lb - Victory Malt
6 lb - Dark Dry Extract
1 oz - Northern Brewer - Boil 60 min (13.1 IBUs)
1 oz - Admiral - Boil 60 min (22.7 IBUs)
1 oz - Columbus (Tomahawk) - Boil 60 min (21.5 IBUs)
0.50 oz - Goldings, East Kent - Boil 60 min (3.8 IBUs)
1 oz - Bramling Cross - Boil 5 min (1.8 IBUs)
1 oz - Goldings, B.C. - Boil 5 min (1.5 IBUs)
2 pkgs WLP002 English Ale

 

[McKnuckle]

Let's address the grain bill...

This is 9.625 lbs of grain and a 6 lb package of DME. How much beer are you planning to make?? If it's 10 gallons you're looking at about 1.100 OG, and a color somewhere around 90. With a 75% yeast attenuation rate, you'll end up with a FG around 1.026 (very sweet).

Did you use a calculator or any other software tool for this recipe? It's over 23% roasted malts, which will be a very strong/bitter/acrid taste. There is less than 50% base malt (the Maris Otter plus 84% of the dark LME; I looked it up - assuming Briess). And 19% flaked barley seems like an awful lot.

Have a look at the more typical percentages on this RIS recipe:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=238807

17.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK Grain 81.93 %
1.50 lb Roasted Barley Grain 7.23 %
1.00 lb Special B Malt Grain 4.82 %
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt Grain 3.61 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine Grain 2.41 %

It's 82% base, 11% roasted malts, and the rest crystal/dextrine - much more reasonable.

 

[Imperialpint]

Thanks for the feedback. I used Beersmith (mobile) for putting it together, based on 5 gal batch. Was using their estimates for the style for OG, but wasn't sure what to make of the high estimated FG. On the roasted malts you just explained something to me, I had been looking at the recommended max % for each individual malt, not the overall combined roasted malts. I went high on the flaked barley hoping for a thick mouthfeel, but keeping it (barely) within the recommended from Beersmith. I've adjusted as follows:
Black patent 12 oz
Chocolate malt 8 oz
Maris otter 3 lbs
Roast barley 8 oz
Flaked barley 2 lbs
Victory malt 8 oz
Dark DME 7 lbs

I also increased tomahawk hops to 1.5 ozs to counteract some of that sweetness.

Still coming up with estimated FG at 1.32, it's a bit high but from what I have been reading didn't seem that incredibly out of character? Not sure what more to do to try to drop the FG without losing the character of the various malts.

 

[kh54s10]

Thanks for the feedback. I used Beersmith (mobile) for putting it together, based on 5 gal batch. Was using their estimates for the style for OG, but wasn't sure what to make of the high estimated FG. On the roasted malts you just explained something to me, I had been looking at the recommended max % for each individual malt, not the overall combined roasted malts. I went high on the flaked barley hoping for a thick mouthfeel, but keeping it (barely) within the recommended from Beersmith. I've adjusted as follows:
Black patent 12 oz
Chocolate malt 8 oz
Maris otter 3 lbs
Roast barley 8 oz
Flaked barley 2 lbs
Victory malt 8 oz
Dark DME 7 lbs



I also increased tomahawk hops to 1.5 ozs to counteract some of that sweetness.

Still coming up with estimated FG at 1.32, it's a bit high but from what I have been reading didn't seem that incredibly out of character? Not sure what more to do to try to drop the FG without losing the character of the various malts.

Assuming that you mean 1.032 for the FG. IMO that will be sickly sweet.

Look at BS and try to get as close as you can to 1.020, mine worked out at 1.022.

I don't have time to work on the recipe with Beersmith but I would look at the parameters that you have set. Look especially at the equipment profile and make sure the setup meets what you will actually get.

 

[madscientist451]

As a new brewer its pretty ambitious to come up with your own recipes before you've even brewed any established, proven recipes for an imperial stout. Brewing is an enjoyable hobby and a lot more enjoyable when the beer comes out really good. My 2 cents: look for existing recipes that you can find on HBT or other brewing sites and see how the beer comes out and then re-brew with some changes that you think will suit your tastes. If there is an commercial imperial stout you like, look for a clone recipe of that beer and start from there.

 

[AkTom]

/\ this. Not to be a smart a$$. But try a good recipe first. That way you'll know you can do it well. Otherwise you'll wonder if it's you or the recipe. Too many recipes, too little time.

 

[Imperialpint]

Fair enough. Problem is that I'm trying to clone Founders imperial stout, and from what I have seen no one has yet found (or at least posted) a recipe. Maybe I'll try a half batch of a more traditional basic recipe and then modify from there as suggested. Dont need to tie up a fermenter with something that might be 'meh' when done.

 

[FatDragon]

Using pale DME or LME can be a good idea even for dark beers. Dark LME/DME is basically no-grain stout extract - it's got all the roast you need for a roasty black beer without needing to steep any roasted grains. If you're steeping or doing a partial mash and using your own roasted grains, go with a standard pale or extra pale extract and adjust the color and roasted flavor with your steeping or partial mash grains.

Next: dial it back. Aim for an OG in the 1.080-1.100 range for your first imperial stout. It'll still be a very big beer, but it's more likely to come out well than a monster 1.130 recipe would.

Consider killing the black patent malt - it's flavor profile is "acrid and ashy", which isn't all that appealing in a stout. Going with a pound and a half of Roasted Barley and Chocolate in some combination for your dark malts would be a better idea - you'll get adequate color and good roast flavors from them. If you are certain you want black patent for whatever reason, 4 oz is probably enough in a beer that's got a significant amount of other roasted grains - it'll boost your color and lend some of that burnt flavor without overpowering the beer.

Two pounds of flaked barley is going to make your imperial stout, already a thick style of beer, feel like a milkshake going down, but maybe that's what you want. You're probably better off going with a pound or less, though.

Maybe some caramel malt? Somewhere in the range of a pound is pretty common fare for an imperial stout. You're getting a bit in the extract, but not as much as most imperial stouts use.

For hops, jam this with 80-100 IBUs and if you want some flavoring hops (your Goldings and Brambling Cross in the recipe) throw them it at 10-15 minutes. With a big beer like this it's likely to have lost all hops aroma by the time it's ready to drink anyway (and hops aroma isn't really a component of an imperial stout), so let them boil a bit longer and give you some flavor that'll stick around longer and suit the beer more than an aroma addition would in the first place.

Finally, I don't know too much about this, but get some advice on the diastatic power of your partial mash. It seems to me like you've got too much specialty grain in there for the three pounds of MO to convert it all, but again I'm not all that well-versed in that aspect of recipe design so get a second opinion.

 

[McKnuckle]

You may not have brewed with these malts before (roasted barley, black patent, chocolate). But a little goes a long way, the darker they are especially. Maxing things out to "get their character" is going to produce something totally overwhelming, not with the pleasant adjectives you used in your first post.

This is why the recipe I linked you to is devised the way it is. It has about 82% pale base malt. Then 18% is "other stuff." There are two types of roasted malt totaling about 11% (roasted barley, chocolate). Almost 5% of Special B, which is a unique crystal malt that gives a dark fruit character. And finally, the last few percent are Cara-pils, a malt used to enhance body.

The target OG is 1.095 and the IBU are in the 80s. The color is off the scale a bit at 52 (over 40 is not really perceptible from just "black").

Finally, be really careful about your decimal point in that OG reading. I plugged your numbers into my own calculator and got 1.100 as an OG for a 10 gallon recipe, yet you say you were aiming for 5 gallons. Yowzah. A final gravity of 1.32 is not 1.032! Beer FG always has a zero in that first decimal space.

 

[GrogNerd]

gotta agree with everyone, especially about using the lightest DME/LME you can get, even in darker beers.

more than likely it's the best-seller wherever you buy it, so good turnaround = fresher product.

 

[madscientist451]

I'm trying to clone Founders imperial stout

Here's a recipe for the Founder's Kentucky Breakfast Stout, which is an Imperial, but not the same as the Founder's Russian Imperial Stout, but if you could leave out the coffee and chocolate, the base beer may be close to what you are looking for or a starting place. The Founders Russian Imperial uses
(or maybe used to use) 10 different Malts, but these bigger breweries sometimes make a base beer and then flavor it different ways.
I've also added coffee/chocolate to stout (in the glass) and experimented with different amounts of coffee/chocolate, so keep an open mind you don't always have to add flavors in primary/secondary.
This same recipe can be found in several places, this one has comments/questions at the bottom:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewin...ers_kbs_clone_recipe_from_zymurgy_built_with/

 

[GrogNerd]

I found this KBS recipe on BYO - https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1857-founder's-brewings-breakfast-stout-clone

I would love to make that one, but first get it good without the Breakfast part of it... or a GI BCBS... or a Bell's Expedition... or Oskar Blues 10 Fidy... or see if Lost Rhino will share the recipe for their Dark Hours

so many good imperial stouts out there

 

[Imperialpint]

Thanks mcknuckle for the insight. Definitely meant 1.032, have made that mistake several times already but realized quickly what was off, yet somehow still haven't learned from mistakes. My grade school math teachers would be appalled. When I do my own recipe I will probably now omit the black patent, as the original description I saw simply said "strong roasty" flavors, but did not indicate it would have an acrid taste in limited quantity (was recommended up to 10%). At same time I also read elsewhere imperial stout should be complex and layered, with a suggestion of using no less than 7 malts.

Anyone know if there is a comprehensive chart/spreadsheet that details all the major (let's say top 30) malts out there, I. E. Name, primary use as base/other, flavor notes, use % range, color, other qualities such as body/head, typical usage examples such as IPA/stout/lager. So much info out there, but can't find all the critical details together in a single chart format, would love to print something like out and laminate to keep with my brew equipment/ingredients. Same for hops.

 

[broadbill]

My only advice would be to consider a smaller batch size. I brewed a RIS in 2012 and still have a good amount left. I can't do more than 1/2-1 bottle and it will give me a headache if I'm drinking anything else before after it.

She is special to me, but it feels like she has been a visitor to my house way too long.

 

[GrogNerd]

here's a table with SOME of the info you're looking for

http://beersmith.com/grain-list/

does have links to brief descriptions