Starter

[mot]

I plan on brewing tomorrow afternoon. I bought a smack pack and just smacked it today at around 4. I have the stuff to make a starter, but wondering if it pays to make one tonight yet? WIll that be enough time to get it going for the brew session tomorrow. I didnt buy the propigator pack I bought the activator one. Should I boild up some DME and make my starter tonight or just pitch the smack pack tomorrow afternoon? Or does it not matter if the starter is not fully going?

 

[evanmars]

Make a starter. I just smacked a pack yesterday and it didn't noticeably swell. I pitched it in a starter anyway and tonight I am still waiting for a sign of activity.

Then again, I did the same with another pack and it swelled quickly. Made a starter with that and it was going quite well today. So I brewed the batch it was destined for but not the other. Maybe tomorrow....

 

[mot]

But if I decide to do the starter and the starter is not going tomorrow can I still pitch it or would I have to wait another day to brew?

 

[evanmars]

If you pitch the yeast straight from the pack, then that's what you'll get, yeast that only number around 1,000,000 cells (if I remember correctly how many cells are in the Activator pack). If you use a starter, you will either have the same (if it doesn't "start") or more cells. You won't lose anything by making a starter if it doesn't start. But you will gain if it does.
If the pack swelled, your starter will start.

 

[UTDoug]

I'm 8 for 8 with no starters, and even if one doesn't start by just pitching from the yeast packet, you can go to the LBS or pitch some back-up dry yeast. No matter what anyone says, it takes 30- 45 min. to make a starter if you consider all the cleanup, wort chilling, sanitizing, etc. Not worth the time.

 

[attitude]

Id do a starter. Im 4 for 4 On starters. I make my starter in th morning and by the time i get done brewing, Its ready to go

 

[NYeric]

If you are offended by dumb questions...Please stop reading now....

Can someone explain smack packs and starters?

 

[evanmars]

A smack pack contains dormant yeast (about 25 billion cells) with a small pack of yeast nutrient that you smack to break it open. This activates (wakes up) the yeast and gets them ready for reproduciton and respiration.

A starter is a batch of yeast in some wort so that it can start the fun of reproduction. If you have a big bunch of yeast to dump, it has a better chance of being the biggest, baddest little beastie fermenting your wort. Crowding out any stray yeasts or bacteria that may have found their way in.

Yeast also produce more esters (I think it's esters anyway) when reproducing, so if you get a lot of reproduction out of the way before pitching, then you'll have that much less in your wort. When they reach a certain population level in the wort, they begin producing alcohol as a byproduct of anaerobic respiration.

The bigger the starter, the sooner the anaerobic respiration and alcohol production.

 

[evanmars]

I'm 8 for 8 with no starters, and even if one doesn't start by just pitching from the yeast packet, you can go to the LBS or pitch some back-up dry yeast. No matter what anyone says, it takes 30- 45 min. to make a starter if you consider all the cleanup, wort chilling, sanitizing, etc. Not worth the time.

Hmm... Not sure it took me 30-45 min to boil some water and LME, let it cool, add some yeast, and put it in a sterilized jar. I guess it might have had I stood over the pot and watched it, but then it would never boil...

Personally, the benefits of a large starter outweigh the few minutes it actually takes me to make it. YMMV. RDWHAHB. To each his own.

 

[UTDoug]

To each his own, I just happen to be in a starter-knocking mood. If you've got time to kill it probably can't hurt. As for 30-45 min, you're forgetting the time it takes you to mop the floor afterwards after the guaranteed spillage of dme powder or wort, cleaning the pots/pans involved and cleaning your starter kit after pouring the starter, you cant forget about all that.

One point - the yeast produce more esters and junk reproducing, but a starter doesn't help that unless you decant the starter wort off, and most sources say not to do that. One could also argue starters increase the risk of contamination as more surface area gets involved in the brewing process.

 

[Yooper]

I bet I never spent more than 15 minutes total making a starter. Boil water, add 1/2 cup DME, boil it a bit, then cool. While it's cooling, sanitize a growler and foil, or stopper and airlock (with sanitizer I've already mixed up). Pour the wort into the growler, dump in the yeast, shake it up and put the foil on. Sometimes I use an airlock and stopper if it's going well. It's really no trouble at all.

I think with liquid yeast, I'll always use a starter. Decreased lag times, less phenol production from stressed yeast, and better attenuation has been my (limited) experience.

 

[UTDoug]

1 minute get the starter kit together
1 min get water on the stove and turn on the heat
4 min. mix up some sanitizer and sanitize starter kit, fill airlock
3 min wait for the water to get to a boil
3 min add the DME and stir until dissolved
7 min put the DME on and boil it for about 5 min. start filling the sink with water
4 min put the starter in the sink and stir it through the water to get at least a little cold break going
3 min clean and dry the pots/funnel used for the starter.
3 min clean up what you spilled

2 min clean your starter bottle after pitching
5 min have a beer

Thats 37 minutes for ya. Actually, I coulda made a quarter of a starter right there instead of writing

 

[jpsloan]

Here's a practicality question...

I understand that batches with starters get more aggressive fermentations going. However, this has kind of put me off of trying it since I'm locked into using buckets for fermentation, and I was somewhat concerned about creating a bucket bomb in my tiny little utility closet. Getting a glass carboy with a blowoff tube isn't really an option for me, as I've pretty much maxed out the space in our tiny tiny tiny tiny little apartment I'm allotted for brewing.

Is an Ale Pail a counterindication for making starters?

 

[mot]

thanks guy this is a higher OG beer to so I wanted to do a starter it is supposed to be around 1.064 If I remember right

 

[Yooper]

I always primary in a 7.5 gallon bucket with an airlock. Once or twice, some krausen snuck out through the top, so I just pulled if off, rinsed and sanitized and stuck it back on. Once, I needed a blowoff tube (for Cheesefood's caramel cream ale recipe). No problems, so far!

As far as that timeline, I'm not going into an argument about how long it takes me. I will tell you, though, that I keep sanitizer in a spray bottle and a gallon jug mixed up, under my sink.

I can grab a saucepan and put a pint or two of water in it and get a rolling boil in under 3 minutes, pull it off the stove, add the DME and bring it to a boil again in about another minute. Let it boil while I grab the growler and foil. Squirt the foil, dump some sanitizer in the growler and shake it up. Turn off the stove, let it cool or put it in the sink in a bigger pan with some cold water in it. Dump the sanitizer out of the growler, pour the starter wort into the growler, pitch the yeast and put the pan in the dishwasher.

Definitely less than 15 minutes, probably less than 10. However, I'm not trying to convince you that my way is the "right" way. Right for me, definitely- maybe not for you. But if it took me more than 15 minutes to make a starter, I wouldn't do it!

 

[evanmars]

5 seconds take a step
5 seconds chew gum
4 seconds breathe
5 seconds take a step
5 seconds chew gum
4 seconds breathe
4 seconds say "Hi" to friend
4 seconds breathe again
5 seconds take a step
5 seconds chew gum

Takes a while to walk and chew gum.

I prefer to walk, chew gum, and breathe or talk at the same time.
But if it works for you otherwise, go for it.

 

[UTDoug]

Sounds like a nice setup. I wish I had a gas range and a dishwasher that's not perpetually full of dirty dishes. I'm kind of a nerd when it comes to "costing out" my brews - who else on this board allocates overhead and time costs to each batch?

But seriously, spend some time watching the clock in general, its pretty fascinating. I did a big time analysis project a couple years ago and was suprised to find I spent on average 98 minutes a day traveling, where my estimate had been 45.

 

[DeathBrewer]

all nitpicking and timecounting aside, make a starter. you will get a much better initial fermentation (use a blow-off) and you'll KNOW that your yeast is good because you'll see the yeast working BEFORE you pour it into your wort.

Besides, what is this rush-brewing idea? isn't this supposed to be a hobby? make the beer better and enjoy yourself. don't worry about conserving time.

which reminds me, my pack is all swelled up and i gotta boil some malt and make a starter...let's see how long it takes.

 

[Big Al]

As far as that timeline, I'm not going into an argument about how long it takes me. I will tell you, though, that I keep sanitizer in a spray bottle and a gallon jug mixed up, under my sink.

Sorry to hijack the thread here.

One Step and Water mixed up in a Spray bottle? What do you use for this. I've been meaning to try something like this but I wasn't sure what would be effective.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Yooper]

Sorry to hijack the thread here.

One Step and Water mixed up in a Spray bottle? What do you use for this. I've been meaning to try something like this but I wasn't sure what would be effective.

Thanks in advance!

I use one tablespoon one step to one gallon water, and shake it up. (I use a clean white plastic milk jug). I pour some into a spray bottle. I keep it in the kitchen and use it to sanitize when I take hydrometer samples, make a starter, wine my wines, etc. The lady at the LHB told me that it's oxygen based so as long as you give it a little swirl and hear it "popping" that it's active. I always do that if it's been more than a day or do since I've used it. It's worked for me so far!

I'm sure you could do it with a different sanitizer, too, like idophor or starsan. I've never used them, so I don't know exactly how, but I think idophor would work for ages.

 

[boo boo]

all nitpicking and timecounting aside, make a starter. you will get a much better initial fermentation (use a blow-off) and you'll KNOW that your yeast is good because you'll see the yeast working BEFORE you pour it into your wort.

Besides, what is this rush-brewing idea? isn't this supposed to be a hobby? make the beer better and enjoy yourself. don't worry about conserving time.

.

My thoughts excatly

 

[mot]

OK I made my starter last night and yeah it was really quick maybe 20 minutes. Ut was bubbling away last night my smack pack was swelled when I put it in. My question though is it normal not to have any krausen on your starter. I would shake it up every few hours to get the yeast back in suspension after they settled. But there is absolutley no sign of any krausen is this normal?

 

[GoatFarmersInternational]

My question though is it normal not to have any krausen on your starter. I would shake it up every few hours to get the yeast back in suspension after they settled. But there is absolutley no sign of any krausen is this normal?

Usually starters do krausen... I wouldn't worry too much, though, so long as it is making lots of CO2; it may have already fallen (like while you were asleep, starters go fast), or maybe the shaking every couple of hours prevented any substantial krausen from forming...