starter using wort from the boil

[odie]

Been thinking about starters for a while since I harvest yeast. But I've always just direct pitched the harvest into my next batch...sometimes after a year in storage...it always makes beer.

Anyway, from what I've read from all the posts and such is that starters are typically made low OG from some neutral/light malt/DME. The idea is just to wake the yeast up and get them active, healthy and up to full speed before pitching in your fermenter.

Why not just use a little wort from the kettle you just brewed and cut it 50% with water instead of making a separate starter wort? That will cut the OG to starter level and your starter ill also be the same flavor profile as the beer you are brewing.

I have to wait at least 12-24 hours before I can pitch yeast anyway since my IC will only take the kettle temp down so far plus I gotta wait for the trub to settle out to separate and screen out.

I tried that a couple days ago...by mixing a cup of hot wort with cold bottled water, the 50/50 mix dropped the starter wort to pitch temps immediately and I added my 18 month old jar of harvested yeast. 12 hours later I have activity (a few bubbles) and then 24 hours it was very active (lot's of tiny CO2 bubbles). I pitched the starter minus the settled layer.

By the time the "hybrid"? starter seemed ready the main wort strained of all trub/hops debris and cooled enough to pitch.

 

[hottpeper13]

I do vitality starters also( yes it's a thing). I take a qt of wort out of the BK after 10 min into the boil, put in freezer to chill. Take my saved yeast out to bring to pitching temp. after about 4 hrs it's at high krausen and is pitched. The beer is always got a 1/8" foam cap in 4 hrs or less.

 

[scrap iron]

I don't know if you sparge or do no sparge brews. I do no sparge and after collecting the wort I pour 1 gal of RO water over the top of a plate or bowl on the grain bed. These come out about 1.032-1.037 on depending on the beer. I collect around 1 gal and put in 1 qt canning jars and pressure can them. Stored in my dark closet, I just pull one out when time for a starter.
If you sparge you could collect from the first part of the sparge, but it will have to be boiled somehow if you don't have a canner.

 

[wepeeler]

Been thinking about starters for a while since I harvest yeast. But I've always just direct pitched the harvest into my next batch...sometimes after a year in storage...it always makes beer.

Anyway, from what I've read from all the posts and such is that starters are typically made low OG from some neutral/light malt/DME. The idea is just to wake the yeast up and get them active, healthy and up to full speed before pitching in your fermenter.

Why not just use a little wort from the kettle you just brewed and cut it 50% with water instead of making a separate starter wort? That will cut the OG to starter level and your starter ill also be the same flavor profile as the beer you are brewing.

I have to wait at least 12-24 hours before I can pitch yeast anyway since my IC will only take the kettle temp down so far plus I gotta wait for the trub to settle out to separate and screen out.

I tried that a couple days ago...by mixing a cup of hot wort with cold bottled water, the 50/50 mix dropped the starter wort to pitch temps immediately and I added my 18 month old jar of harvested yeast. 12 hours later I have activity (a few bubbles) and then 24 hours it was very active (lot's of tiny CO2 bubbles). I pitched the starter minus the settled layer.

By the time the "hybrid"? starter seemed ready the main wort strained of all trub/hops debris and cooled enough to pitch.

I'm not sure the math is exactly 50/50, but you have the right idea. Gravity should be 1.030-1.040 for ideal growth. The idea is to make the yeast replicate, not ferment. If your gravity is too high the yeast want to ferment the wort instead of replicate.

 

[odie]

I do vitality starters also( yes it's a thing). I take a qt of wort out of the BK after 10 min into the boil, put in freezer to chill. Take my saved yeast out to bring to pitching temp. after about 4 hrs it's at high krausen and is pitched. The beer is always got a 1/8" foam cap in 4 hrs or less.

4 hours and your starter is already high krausen? damn that's fast.

 

[odie]

I'm not sure the math is exactly 50/50, but you have the right idea. Gravity should be 1.030-1.040 for ideal growth. The idea is to make the yeast replicate, not ferment. If your gravity is too high the yeast want to ferment the wort instead of replicate.

well it's just a rough mix... did not know low gravity encouraged yeast propagation, which is what I think we want with a starter anyway.

Anyway, got another brew batch going. Did the same thing. used about 50/50 kettle wort and bottled water and pitched an old yeast cake into a quart mason jar to make a starter. activity within 12 hours and pitched the whole thing into the fermenter after 24 hours.

Will see how it all goes.

 

[wepeeler]

So I found a dilution equation on another forum. You have 5 gals of wort, SG=1.070, to which you want to add x gals of water, SG=1.000. You want to therefore end up with 5+x gals of wort at SG=1.050. Mathematically, it looks like this:
(5)(1.070) + X(1.000) = (5+X)(1.050)
5.35 + X = (5+X)(1.050)
5.35 + X = 5.25 + 1.050X
0.1 + X = 1.050X
0.1 = 0.050X
X = 2

(Credit to BillyBock lol)

ie

for 16oz of 1.060 starting gravity wort diluted to 1.035 it would look like:
(0.625)(1.060) + x(1.000) = (0.625+x)(1.035)
0.6625 + x = (0.6469+x)(1.035)
0.6625 + x = 0.6469 + 1.035x
0.0156 + x = 1.035x
0.0156 = 0.035x
0.446 = 11.5oz

That's assuming each oz is 0.039 ie 0.625 gal (16oz). 0.625 divided by 16= 0.039 each oz
0.039x11.5oz = .4485 which is very close to 0.446 from above

I could have certainly screwed up the math, but I think I'm spot on.

 

[odie]

well, the OG after boil was 1.042 It's an easy drinking kolsch to be pounded on a hot day.

is just did like about 8oz pour of wort and about the same of water.

 

[Yesfan]

There was a recent Brulosophy episode on lower vs higher gravity starter wort.

Slightly off topic....

On another note, if you watch Elementary Brewing, that guy does something similar in a recent brew episode He did a partial boil with 3 gallons and held back 2 gallon of either RO or distilled water (can't remember which). It quickened his brew day as he didn't have to deal with ice and recirculating through his chiller with another pump.

Great idea but then I realized I just came full circle in my brewing journey.............

 

[odie]

There was a recent Brulosophy episode on lower vs higher gravity starter wort.

Slightly off topic....

On another note, if you watch Elementary Brewing, that guy does something similar in a recent brew episode He did a partial boil with 3 gallons and held back 2 gallon of either RO or distilled water (can't remember which). It quickened his brew day as he didn't have to deal with ice and recirculating through his chiller with another pump.

Great idea but then I realized I just came full circle in my brewing journey.............

that's a cool trick to speed up post FO chilling. But I mash BIAB...and I now mash less than full volume and sparge to boost efficiency...I would have to boost the grain bill and skip sparge to do the post FO cold water dump.

what you gain in one area...you often lose in another area...

 

[TBA]

So I found a dilution equation on another forum. You have 5 gals of wort, SG=1.070, to which you want to add x gals of water, SG=1.000. You want to therefore end up with 5+x gals of wort at SG=1.050. Mathematically, it looks like this:
(5)(1.070) + X(1.000) = (5+X)(1.050)
5.35 + X = (5+X)(1.050)
5.35 + X = 5.25 + 1.050X
0.1 + X = 1.050X
0.1 = 0.050X
X = 2

(Credit to BillyBock lol)

ie

for 16oz of 1.060 starting gravity wort diluted to 1.035 it would look like:
(0.625)(1.060) + x(1.000) = (0.625+x)(1.035)
0.6625 + x = (0.6469+x)(1.035)
0.6625 + x = 0.6469 + 1.035x
0.0156 + x = 1.035x
0.0156 = 0.035x
0.446 = 11.5oz

That's assuming each oz is 0.039 ie 0.625 gal (16oz). 0.625 divided by 16= 0.039 each oz
0.039x11.5oz = .4485 which is very close to 0.446 from above

I could have certainly screwed up the math, but I think I'm spot on.

And they said we would never use that algebra stuff…

 

[wepeeler]

And they said we would never use that algebra stuff…

Almost made my brain hurt. It was before lunch, but thankfully after my coffee!

 

[Hermit]

The idea is just to wake the yeast up and get them active, healthy and up to full speed before pitching in your fermenter.

Has the concept of proper pitching rates died since last I visited?

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Has the concept of proper pitching rates died since last I visited?

I’m not opposed to proper pitching rates; it’s just my eyesight is too poor to count yeast cells.

 

[Dland]

Back when I was brewing in the early '90s, we usually bottled up a few bottles of cooled wort in sanitized bottles from every few batches, which we kept refrigerated and used for yeast starter. It always worked with the early smack packs, which was the only way to get pretty good yeast at the time where I was. It was never stored that long before it was used, maybe 6-8 weeks. I think the idea came from one of those early homebrew books, likely the one by Charlie P.

These days I spund carbonate in kegs and do "cone to cone" multiple brews per pitch, so I don't need to do this, but it is a good and easy way to have stater wort of assured quality.

 

[jtratcliff]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/real-wort-starters-overview.679019/

 

[Hermit]

There was someone that used to use the wort from his current batch. He called that the 'real wort starter'. I believe the username was something like The Pol? He did no-chill. @Yooper may have bought his equipment? Long time back. I can't find anything now. Searches only go back to around 2014 now and I can't find the user name.

 

[Yesfan]

I’m not opposed to proper pitching rates; it’s just my eyesight is too poor to count yeast cells.

Brother, you may need to see if you need glasses.......