Starsan question

[Rosvineer]

My LHBS guy told me storing StarSan solution in plastic containers is bad. He said it will eat into the plastic. However, pure StarSan comes in a plastic container. What's up?

 

[BetterSense]

I keep mixed star-san in a plastic spray bottle. Or an empty keg. No problems.

 

[SilverZero]

Sounds like the alchemist who invented the strongest acid known to man, one that would eat through any other substance. He presented it to the king in a glass flask, and was beheaded.

I have had a batch of Star San in a Lowe's bucket for the last 5.5 weeks. Still works great, the bucket is doing just fine. I kept it on hand because I had a few different batches I was doing between then and now, but I'm in a longer gap phase now so I think I'll dump it. I tested it with pH paper this weekend, it's still quite low so I think it's fine.

 

[Mojzis]

Your LHBS guy is misinformed (they usually are).

Glass container would be bad. Plastic is what its supposed to be in (its concentrated acid).

 

[RuffRider]

My LHBS guy told me storing StarSan solution in plastic containers is bad. He said it will eat into the plastic. However, pure StarSan comes in a plastic container. What's up?

I don't have any problem with StarSan and plastics. I store it in plastic containers after I mix it with no issues. I use it on plastic fermentors, tubing, etc with no issues. Like you said, it comes in a plastic container. No issues. Check out this thread on the same topic:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/starsan-plastic-107836/

 

[brewkinger]

Yeah, the LHBS is indeed misinformed (I have discovered that this happens a lot)

Seems to me that I did read once about leaving starsan in SS kettle can cause issues with the oxidized layer on your kettle (as mentioned, it is very acidic)

 

[gcdowd]

Think of it this way, the concentrated star san is kept in a plastic container and that is undiluted.

 

[ApothecaryBrewing]

Yeah, the LHBS is indeed misinformed (I have discovered that this happens a lot)

Seems to me that I did read once about leaving starsan in SS kettle can cause issues with the oxidized layer on your kettle (as mentioned, it is very acidic)

Your SS Kettle won't have an oxidized layer. That is only with aluminum kettles. You shouldn't need to sanitize your kettle anyways since anything going into it gets boiled and by the end of the boil that entire system is sanitized.

 

[EPS]

I would of told the guy you know star san comes in a lower grade plastic then buckets right. And as someone already said its undiluted! What that guy said doesn't even make a lick of sense.

 

[mojo_wire]

Haven't you seen Breaking Bad, when Walter told Jesse to keep the acid in a plastic barrel large enough to hold a body and when he had a hard time finding one he used his bathtub instead?

I keep my Starsan in a 2 gallon plastic container and a plastic spray bottle. No problems.

 

[zachattack]

Your LHBS guy is misinformed (they usually are).

Glass container would be bad. Plastic is what its supposed to be in (its concentrated acid).

Glass is fine as well. Concentrated acids are sold in glass jars.

 

[thejuanald]

Haven't you seen Breaking Bad, when Walter told Jesse to keep the acid in a plastic barrel large enough to hold a body and when he had a hard time finding one he used his bathtub instead?

I keep my Starsan in a 2 gallon plastic container and a plastic spray bottle. No problems.

...many acids will eat through plastic. They use HF in breaking bad (how a high school teacher had access to tons of HF in his classroom is beyond me). HF will eat through anything that isn't a fluorocarbon. HF will eat through many types of plastics, except rubbers and polyethylene.

Star san is composed of a mixture of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid. I'm not sure the concentration of each but phosphoric acid (non-concentrated) is fine in plastic and is in many sodas. Dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid is corrosive but I believe it's at a low enough concentration (especially in the non-concentrate) that it isn't an issue.

 

[thejuanald]

Glass is fine as well. Concentrated acids are sold in glass jars.

That's true for most acids. HF will eat right through glass.

 

[Mojzis]

Yeah my bad I was thinking hydrofluoric. Somehow I doubt star san uses hydrofluoric acid lol imagine?

(how a high school teacher had access to tons of HF in his classroom is beyond me).

I was thinking the same thing when I saw this. Ridiculous.

 

[Brewskii]

Your SS Kettle won't have an oxidized layer. That is only with aluminum kettles. You shouldn't need to sanitize your kettle anyways since anything going into it gets boiled and by the end of the boil that entire system is sanitized.

Actually, what makes stainless steel "stainless" is the oxidation of chromium in the metal. In new commercial vessels built on site this is often done by cleaning them with a mild acid solution.
It's known as acid passiviation.
http://www.delstar.com/passivating.html

 

[zachattack]

That's true for most acids. HF will eat right through glass.

This is true. I was keeping it in the context of Star San.

 

[brewkinger]

Your SS Kettle won't have an oxidized layer. That is only with aluminum kettles. You shouldn't need to sanitize your kettle anyways since anything going into it gets boiled and by the end of the boil that entire system is sanitized.

I think that someone might also have addressed this via the "acid passivation" aspect, but I did want to add that passive oxidation DOES occur in a SS kettle because the acidity of the wort. That is why cleaning of SS requires that you merely rinse and gently scrub any materials BUT does not require you to ever SCRUB the inside of the SS with anything abrasive.
Even if you did, the acid wort would begin the process over again.

 

[cwi]

I had a big long post drawn up, but several individual posts beat me to most of the rebuttals I was going to make.
Seems the LHBS isn't the only place to get bad info.
This is all I have left to contribute-
Anecdotally, I have had Star-San (concentrate) 'eat' through the bottom of a milk jug (twice) when it apparently was not mixed thoroughly enough when making a batch to use. I would guess based on that, even diluted Star-San will degrade it somewhat. Maybe it didn't actually 'eat' the plastic, but only reacted with the surface layer, and a milk jug is thin enough that the altered surface layer weakened the structural properties enough to cause a crack in the bottom. Same result either way. Star-San concentrate bottles are much thicker, but the same grade (PETE #1), I believe. I don't have one to check, since I had to transfer it to a Nalgene PETE container after the original lid becoming brittle and cracked. I believe they have changed the lid materials recently, as this was a common occurrence.

I now use clear glass jugs for Star-San (mixed with distilled water), for ease of determining efficacy based on whether it has clouded or not.

 

[vNmd]

Like a lot of posts already said I keep starsan in plastic (water jugs) for storage and leave it in my primary fermenter a few days after each batch with no problems. One thing I will add is one time I left some siphon tubing (normal 3/8 inch) in the bucket with regular diluted strength starsan and didn't realize it. When I found it a few days later the tubing was a little sticky to the touch. It wasn't falling apart or anything, just didn't feel normal so I tossed it. But buckets and 1 gallon water jugs - no problem though.

 

[cwi]

Like a lot of posts already said I keep starsan in plastic (water jugs) for storage and leave it in my primary fermenter a few days after each batch with no problems.But buckets and 1 gallon water jugs - no problem though.

And my post about what happens when it is put in a milk/water jug. I may have even been 3 times, and I mixed it up as thoroughly as I could after the first time- with the same result. That stuff is like jelly though, so I may not have gotten it all. The bottom pattern of the jug serves to funnel any bits to one spot/line as well, and that was where the damage was.

And I will add a related issue which is PBW/OxyClean/etc. causing cracks in Better Bottles. If too much is added, or it isn't mix well, the concentrated area where the powder sits will result in a fracture. A keg washer is probably the safest way to clean Better Bottles. Even without the concentrated issue, Oxyclean will create hairline cracks in racking canes/auto-siphons for even very short soaks.