Stalled Fermentation- 2 Yeast Packs Later

[ahags]

Hi All!

I am brand new to home brewing and having a frustrating first start. I made a starter kit that was targeting to be a 5 gallon Hazy IPA with Fermentis Safale-04 yeast included. The targeted ABV was 6.8% with an OG target of 1.07 and FG of 1.018.

I did this brew in my Vevor All In One as an all grain brew day. I followed the instructions step by step and the wort came in a bit higher than 5 gallons when all said and done. I believe the higher sparge water (3 gallons) resulted in a slightly less efficient mash and diluted it a bit. I ended up with an OG of 1.051 significantly undershooting my target of 1.07. However, I didn’t want to let this discourage me, a lower 4.5-5% alcohol hazy IPA would still be worth a shot so I moved into the fermenter and pitched my dry yeast packet into the wort. No rehydration or liquid yeast.

Day 1-3 - Extreme airlock activity. C02 releasing as expected and water in the airlock doing its job. After 48 hours I did a quick gravity check and saw it at 1.031 which was on track. I have an Anvil stainless steel fermenter with spigot so I have used the spigot for quick samples to test along way.

Days 3-4 My gravity went up to 1.036 and stalled day over day. My only explanation for how this may have happened was that my refractometer was not reading the alcohol and the SG was actually about flat from the 1.031reading on day 2.

Days 5- still stalled at exact same. I had tried wrapping the fermenter in a towel and temperature in the closet is a consistent 68-70 degrees I’d say, so I don’t see this being the issue. I went to my local store after some advice and pitched a second pack of the same safale-04 yeast.

Day 6- No additional airlock activity and no change to SG

Day 7- No activity and SG still stalled at 1.036. Keep in mind, the fermentation had occurred within 24 hours with this same yeast when I first pitched so I am now convinced the brew is stalled for good. I don’t know what else to do. I have given the fermenter a whirl, even stirred it (was willing to sacrifice the oxygenation just to get an education on trying to reactivate this) and still nada…

I have read a lack of aeration on the front end could be the cause. I did pour the wort straight from the Vevor into the Anvil from about 2 feet in the air causing a lot of splashing and even a nice head on top when done. I thought this meant the aeration was adequate so I didn’t do anything further.

Do I ditch this and start from scratch? Any advice to get it going?

Thanks!
Austin

 

[RM-MN]

Days 3-4 My gravity went up to 1.036 and stalled day over day. My only explanation for how this may have happened was that my refractometer was not reading the alcohol and the SG was actually about flat from the 1.031reading on day 2.

The refractometer is your problem. The alcohol in the beer skews the reading to the high side. When your beer has started fermentation you switch to a hydrometer for accurate readings. There are calculators to adjust the reading of the refractometer to closer to accurate but the hydrometer is the correct tool for this.

Without going through the calculations, my guess is that your beer is now between 1.018 and 1.020, right where is should be.

 

[mac_1103]

I made a starter kit that was targeting to be a 5 gallon Hazy IPA

Posting a link to the kit might improve the quality of advice folks can give you.

 

[ahags]

Posting a link to the kit might improve the quality of advice folks can give you.

https://a.co/d/bsOG76K

 

[camonick]

You need to invest in a hydrometer.

 

[ahags]

I just ordered a hydrometer - https://a.co/d/ibBcpbJ. Will be here tomorrow and I will check the reading both ways.

Out of curiosity, I still checked those calculators and even with the correction factor, I don’t seem to be getting anywhere near the final gravity needed. What math is used to correct the 1.036 SG to FG in a hydrometer equivalent?

If my beer was in fact at the targeted final gravity then I likely just made it taste a lot worse with the second pack of yeast, correct?

Not sure if it will be worth bottling/kegging at this point but open to trying if I can salvage it. The wort still tastes fairly sweet.

 

[ahags]

I just ordered a hydrometer - https://a.co/d/ibBcpbJ. Will be here tomorrow and I will check the reading both ways.

Out of curiosity, I still checked those calculators and even with the correction factor, I don’t seem to be getting anywhere near the final gravity needed. What math is used to correct the 1.036 SG to FG in a hydrometer equivalent?

If my beer was in fact at the targeted final gravity then I likely just made it taste a lot worse with the second pack of yeast, correct?

Not sure if it will be worth bottling/kegging at this point but open to trying if I can salvage it. The wort still tastes fairly sweet.

 

[mac_1103]

To get the OG down to 1.051 just by dilution would mean that you overshot your volume by almost two gallons. More likely your efficiency is lower than what the kit instructions assume. That doesn't necessarily mean you did something "wrong." It's just the way things work out sometimes.

But if your actual OG is lower than predicted, then your expected FG will also be lower - probably around 1.013 for this recipe (right around 5% ABV). RM-MN is right - if you're reading 1.031 with a refractometer then you're probably really at 1.018, maybe a tad lower. So possibly a touch under-attenuated but not drastically so.

If you don't have a hydrometer, ignore the SG scale on your refractometer. Read the Brix scale and use a calculator like this one.

 

[ahags]

To get the OG down to 1.051 just by dilution would mean that you overshot your volume by almost two gallons. More likely your efficiency is lower than what the kit instructions assume. That doesn't necessarily mean you did something "wrong." It's just the way things work out sometimes.

But if your actual OG is lower than predicted, then your expected FG will also be lower - probably around 1.013 for this recipe (right around 5% ABV). RM-MN is right - if you're reading 1.031 with a refractometer then you're probably really at 1.018, maybe a tad lower. So possibly a touch under-attenuated but not drastically so.

If you don't have a hydrometer, ignore the SG scale on your refractometer. Read the Brix scale and use a calculator like this one.

Even using these calculators, I had a Brix/OG of 12.5/1.051 and now have a 1.036 SG /9.0 Brix. Using this calculator with a 1.04 wort correction, I still show well over the targeted final gravity and even further off your adjusted diluted FG above. What am I doing wrong here?

 

[mac_1103]

Sorry, I saw 1.031 in your first post and was going off of that and using a WCF of 1. Did you use 1.04 because you actually determined yours, or just because it was suggested by someone somewhere?

 

[ahags]

Sorry, I saw 1.031 in your first post and was going off of that and using a WCF of 1. Did you use 1.04 because you actually determined yours, or just because it was suggested by someone somewhere?

Just something I saw online. It actually makes my issue worse if I use the 1.0 adjustment. Any other ideas? Is it possible that it has completely stalled and won’t budge? I was shocked the second yeast pitch Friday didn’t do anything.

 

[RM-MN]

When you brew all grain beer you have a lot of control or lack of control during the brewing process. Getting an OG substantially lower than expected can be from adding too much water thus diluting the wort or it can be a poor crush of the grain which gives you a lower mash efficiency.

Getting a higher FG than expected can be caused by the yeast you use or it can be from mashing at a higher than predicted temperature which will then denature the beta amylase and leave you with more unfermentable dextrines.

 

[ahags]

When you brew all grain beer you have a lot of control or lack of control during the brewing process. Getting an OG substantially lower than expected can be from adding too much water thus diluting the wort or it can be a poor crush of the grain which gives you a lower mash efficiency.

Getting a higher FG than expected can be caused by the yeast you use or it can be from mashing at a higher than predicted temperature which will then denature the beta amylase and leave you with more unfermentable dextrines.

Looking back, I think my off OG came from 1) Dilution and 2) Impatient Sparging. Regarding point 1, I started with 5 gallons for my mash over 60 min. I set the bucket to around 172 in anticipation of a cold grain basket and grain bringing temperature down (it landed right into the 152-155 range for the 55-60 min mash) so my temps seemed good and were controlled well by the all in one kettle. However, the recipe called for 3 gallons of spare water which I did with spring water from Walmart. I waited for the grain basket to drain almost all the way before adding my first gallon of sparge water and then repeated that process 3 times total. I do think I probably could have been more patient as I added the sparge water fairly fast and the grain was probably not fully drained before each iteration which could have lowered my efficiency a bit. As for the dilution, I didn’t know exactly how many gallons I ended up with because while the grain basket is in my Vevor brew kettle the etched marks for the volume are not visible. However, I do recall ending with more than the 5 gallons. Probably closer to 5.5 gallons. The preboil target was 6.5 gallons with a final of 5 gallons. My guess is I was closer to 7 gallons with a final of 5.5.

So yes, lesson learned for next time around on the dilution. In the mash temperature, the one thing I did to save time was that as the wort was draining and I was sparging, I started getting the temperature heating to 212. I’d say the temp was steadily climbing from 155 to probably 185-190 by the time I had pulled the grain basket out. Keep in mind, the mash itself had been completed and the grain basket was no longer in the wort. This wouldn’t have a negative impact on mash temperature right? As it was done with the wort that would be getting boiled as is and the grain itself never was overheated.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

 

[ahags]

This is the position the grain basket was in while draining and the kettle underneath was starting to get hotter for the boil

 

[ahags]

 

[mac_1103]

An extra half a gallon is not going to take the gravity from 1.070 to 1.051; it would take an extra 1.8-1.9 gallons to do that.

 

[ahags]

An extra half a gallon is not going to take the gravity from 1.070 to 1.051; it would take an extra 1.8-1.9 gallons to do that.

I could open the fermenter and try to get a read on the level- but it should definitely be under 6 gallons. So sounds like the dilution is not the main issue. Can rapid sparging vs a slow and patient sparge have a big contribution to lower OG? Or also pretty nominal?

 

[mac_1103]

Can rapid sparging vs a slow and patient sparge have a big contribution to lower OG?

I won't comment as I'm not familiar with your system in particular or AIO's in general. I BIAB and batch sparge.

 

[camonick]

It would behoove you to download some brewing software and do some testing with plain water on your system. As stated earlier, mash temp, water volume, grain crush, boil off rate, etc. can cause the biggest swings in efficiency. Not all recipes work for all systems. It takes a lot of trial and error to dial in a brewing rig.
Meticulous record keeping and measurements are crucial.

 

[ahags]

At this point- in terms of fermentation, should I still wait on it or just scrap it and try again? Let’s assume I did get to 1.025 or so with hydrometer, it still would be a sub 4% hazy ipa and seems to have stalled. Not much I can do about the brew day process except adjust for next time, but in terms of the 5-6 gallons of wort sitting in the closet, do I hang on for further fermentation or is it likely done? Thanks all!

 

[mac_1103]

Way too soon to give up on it IMO. See what the hydrometer says and go from there.

 

[ahags]

Way too soon to give up on it IMO. See what the hydrometer says and go from there.

Yea- I just gave it an open to check the volume. I have taken some samples which maybe amount to at most 1/4 of a gallons but likely less over the past week. It is just a hair over the 5 gallon mark. So the idea of dilution is even less likely now. Seems I’ve just had a stalled fermentation for whatever reason. There is no Krausen so I assume the second yeast pitch has finished as well. Guess I could aim for a session IPA

 

[hotbeer]

At 68 - 70°F and pitching US-04, your actual fermentation may well have been over on day 3. So that might explain why it's not bubbling anymore.

If when your hydrometer comes in, you find that it's still not at the predicted FG or within 2 or 3 points, then something else is up. Throwing more yeast is seldom the answer, IMO.

While we call the vessel a fermenter, that isn't it's only job for a homebrewer. We also use it as a commercial brewery uses a bright tank. Most of my APA's and IPA's ferment out fully in 3 to 4 days. But it takes longer for the beer to clear. Yeast also clean up unwanted flavors/aromas created during fermentation during that period afterward. That's one of the reason most instructions say to leave it in the FV for 2 to 3 weeks.

 

[camonick]

Continuously opening the fermenter is incredibly detrimental to a hoppy beer.

 

[ahags]

At 68 - 70°F and pitching US-04, your actual fermentation may well have been over on day 3. So that might explain why it's not bubbling anymore.

If when your hydrometer comes in, you find that it's still not at the predicted FG or within 2 or 3 points, then something else is up. Throwing more yeast is seldom the answer, IMO.

While we call the vessel a fermenter, that isn't it's only job for a homebrewer. We also use it as a commercial brewery uses a bright tank. Most of my APA's and IPA's ferment out fully in 3 to 4 days. But it takes longer for the beer to clear. Yeast also clean up unwanted flavors/aromas created during fermentation during that period afterward. That's one of the reason most instructions say to leave it in the FV for 2 to 3 weeks.

Yes, this was my suspicion too. I assumed it was done by day 3 as the SG stopped moving. However, given how high it ended I couldn’t help but wonder if I had a bad yeast pack or some had died on the pitch so I tried a second pack.

 

[ahags]

Continuously opening the fermenter is incredibly detrimental to a hoppy beer.

Yes, I understand that but feel at this point, this is a bit of an experiment. I doubt I’ll be bringing this to bottling given all the gravity issues

 

[camonick]

I would let it ride for another week or so at this point and package it then. That’s a lot of money to pour down the drain. Decide whether or not to dump it after you taste it in another few weeks. Have you tasted any of the samples up to now. Are they sweet, bitter, watery,?

 

[mashdar]

S-04 finishes in 2-3 days for most batches I've used it in. It's a beast, but doesn't attenuate as much as most yeasts.

Have you used the hydrometer yet? I may have missed the result.

How did you mill the grain? Perhaps take a photo pre-mash-in next time.

 

[ahags]

I would let it ride for another week or so at this point and package it then. That’s a lot of money to pour down the drain. Decide whether or not to dump it after you taste it in another few weeks. Have you tasted any of the samples up to now. Are they sweet, bitter, watery,?

Ok- will give this a try. Yes it seemed a bit sweet and little watered down. I am used to drinking full on IPA’s so I may also be a poor test subject for appreciating a lighter hazy IPA. I thought the sweetness was a good sign there are still sugars in fermented. But it didn’t taste too bitter.

 

[ahags]

S-04 finishes in 2-3 days for most batches I've used it in. It's a beast, but doesn't attenuate as much as most yeasts.

Have you used the hydrometer yet? I may have missed the result.

How did you mill the grain? Perhaps take a photo pre-mash-in next time.

Ordered it an hour ago- will test tomorrow and revert back with results. The grains I bought were all pre-milled. Here is a video of the supplies