Stainless Steel CFC Comparisions

[Keith81]

I am looking to upgrade from my 25' immersion chiller and would like to stick with stainless steel over copper. I've found 4 options of stainless CFCs and want to make an informed decision. I'm going to put as much info about the chillers as I can hoping that if it's comprehensive enough it might become a buyer's guide for readers making the same decision.

The 4 options I've found are:
Northern Brewer:
https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/northern-brewer-stainless-counterflow-chiller
Inner Tubing: 3/8"
Outer Tubing: 5/8"
Length: 18'
Wort Connections: 1/2" MPT
Water Connections: Male Garden Hose Threads

Kegco (can find it cheaper on Amazon than the link below):
https://www.kegco.com/home-brewing-equipment/immersion-chillers/fl-scfc/
Inner Tubing: 5/8"
Outer Tubing: 7/8"
Length: 12'
Wort Connections: none, they suggest 1/2" tubing with hose clamps, based on other conversations the following link is to compression fittings that can be added to have 1/2" MPT.
https://www.homebrewing.org/SS-15mm-Compression-X-12-MPT_p_6670.html
Water Connections: Garden Hose Threads - 1 Male, 1 Female

Exchilerator Maxx ($99 option for stainless wort tube):
https://www.exchilerator.com/product/maxx-counterflow-wort-chiller/
Inner Tubing: 1/4"
Outer Tubing: I don't know, it's PEX instead of stainless steel
Length: 25'
Wort Connections: 1/2" MPT, can get 1.5 TC on their Basic Maxx for extra $$
Water Connections: Male Garden Hose Threads

Stout:
https://conical-fermenter.com/wc30x1/2-ss-tc-670_stainless-steel-wort-chiller.html
Inner Tubing: 12mm (just shy of 1/2")
Outer Tubing: 19 mm (3/4")
Length 31'
Wort Connections: 1.5 TC
Water Connections: 1/2" MPT

Important Factors when choosing a CFC (if I understand what I've read in other threads):
*Chill Water Temp - can't cool below the starting temp of the water you are cooling with
*Contact Time - can be improved by either longer chiller or slowing wort flow
*Surface Area - I don't know how to figure it but I think it has something to do not only with the length of the chiller but also the diameter of the tubing


Now for the questions that I have:

My Current Setup:
-5.5 gallon batches
-Riptide Pump with Brew Hardware Spincycle for recirculating the wort back into the kettle
-Chill water in mash tun with 1/6 HP Submersible pump rated at 1600 GPH from Harbor Freight to pump water through chiller. I collect the hot water at the start of chilling in my HLT to use for clean up. Once the heat is knocked down I then add blocks of ice to mash tun and recirculate back into the mash tun through Locline which I position so the hot water returning flows directly onto the ice to melt it faster. I'm not really concerned with using a bunch of ice (currently go through about 20 lbs) since I freeze my own blocks in a chest freezer that has to run anyway because it has food in it.

Questions:
1. I don't want to make the same mistake I did with the immersion chiller and get the less efficient option just because it's cheaper but the Northern Brewer and Kegco options are so much cheaper once I figure in shipping and cost of fittings that I can't ignore the cost difference (I use camlocks, so in the case of the Stout I'd have to get TC clamps, gaskets and adapters). I'd be very happy if I could achieve 15-20 minute chilling, it currently takes about 45 minutes with the immersion chiller. Given my setup and that I won't be increasing my batch size (I'm ready for something different by the time I'm through 5 gallons), would either the Northern Brewer or Kegco be sufficient once I get through the learning curve of what flow rate gets the best efficiency or am I likely to have buyer's remorse that I didn't go for the larger chiller (I can afford the larger one, it'll just take a little longer to save up the money)?
2. I currently sanitize my pump by recirculating hot wort immediately after flameout which also whirlpools the wort to form a good trub cone in the kettle before it gets drained into the fermenter. If possible I would like to do that inline with the CFC to sanitize it. I'm thinking that the smaller wort tubing of the Northern Brewer and Exchilerator may restrict the flow too much to get a good trub cone but would the longer length of the Stout also make it tough?

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks, Keith

 

[Drumminguy81]

Not sure how much I can help but I will share my experience. I have used a blichmann therminator, a kegco stainless cfc and currently a stout cfc. The blichmann worked amazing but was a huge pain to keep clean and with my high hop beers I had flow issues even with in inline filter. I switched to the kegco stainless cfc for ease of cleaning. It worked well but I brew 20 gallon batches and in order to get down to pitching temp it took a very slow transfer. I picked up the stout cfc when it came out recently. I have only used it for 2 brews so far and am very happy with the results. It chills easily twice as well as the kegco and has the sanitary fittings welded. No more leaking from threaded fitting adapters. For the money it was well worth it. It was not much more than any of the other chillers I have had in fact I sold my therminator and kegco combined for more than the stout cost me. I will say the overall performance of a plate chiller is hard to beat, if I could get a reasonably priced plate chiller that was easy to disassemble and clean I would be all over it but I am very happy with my stout cfc. Hope that helps a little..

 

[augiedoggy]

there are lots of them on aliexpress as well but I think many of them are the same one as the kegco just not from BF. (all kegcos and kegkings stuff is rebranded stuff from aliexpress) I believe you would need 2 for the chilling power of a stout though .. there are lots of tc versions there as well.
https://www.aliexpress.com/af/count...12040713&origin=n&catId=0&isViewCP=y&jump=afs


I also have a plate chiller and had horrible luck trying to use a large inline filter without the hop spiders I normally use and went back to using the spiders since they have been problem free for me. I agree if a person doesnt use hop spiders you will be fighting with plugging of the plate chiller...
Ive had my 20 plate duda for 5 years now and its been debris free the whole time so they work great once you realize and account for their limitation.

 

[S-Met]

You already have an immersion chiller... Drop that in an ice-bath in your hlt and recirculate ice cold h2o through your cfc. Makes your choice of cfc less important.

Surface Area = 2pi r h + 2pi r^2
Pi =3.14 r =radius h =height
Its going to be off a little since thats the formula for a right cylinder and a cfc is more of an elliptical coil, but the approximation will be close enough. Especially true when used in comparing multiple items.

 

[augiedoggy]

You already have an immersion chiller... Drop that in an ice-bath in your hlt and recirculate ice cold h2o through your cfc. Makes your choice of cfc less important.

Surface Area = 2pi r h + 2pi r^2
Pi =3.14 r =radius h =height
Its going to be off a little since thats the formula for a right cylinder and a cfc is more of an elliptical coil, but the approximation will be close enough. Especially true when used in comparing multiple items.

it doesnt help with the LODO trend though..or to remove copper from the beer. thats the main reason people are going stainless.

 

[S-Met]

it doesnt help with the LODO trend though..or to remove copper from the beer. thats the main reason people are going stainless.

Not being argumentative, I just fail to understand your point. LODO makes no difference and not brought up by OP. Regardless, a stainless immersion in an ice bath being used to chill the h2o through a cfc has a much greater cooling coefficient than an ice bath alone. This increased efficiency will make the cooling ability variable of a cfc less important.

By removing a variable fron the decision process, one can focus on the other features thus making the choice more simple.

 

[augiedoggy]

The The OP pointed out he wanted to move away from copper usually people do this for lodo You suggested they keep using the copper chiller. I believe the point was he wanted to move away from using copper and Many people move from immersion chillers to counter flow For those same lodo reasons So I just pointed that out if it's one of his concerns that's all Regardless of whether lodo does or doesn't make any difference it's the main reason all the stainless counterflow chiller is are popping up and it's about as hot as a New England IPA right now to a lot of home brewers so... I brought it up Also not trying to be argumentative I just think it might very well be one of the reasons why the OP wants to do what he wants to do.

 

[S-Met]

The The OP pointed out he wanted to move away from copper usually people do this for lodo

His immersion is stainless, or at least I inferred stainless by his phrase "stick with stainless."

And again, not being argumentative, I just want to be sure I'm not missing something. Knowledge is Power and all that other motivational stuff.

 

[Keith81]

Thanks for the replies everyone! The impression I am getting is the Stout is the way to go if you want a stainless steel cfc and do large batches. For those that do 5 gallon batches the Kegco could be a good choice for those on a budget but the Stout would be quicker if you can afford it. As for using the immersion chiller. I'm not currently a LODO brewer but am reading about it and considering it in the future so those comments are appreciated. My IC happens to be stainless steel and I have thought about using it in the kettle along with the cfc at the beginning of chilling to knock the temp of the wort that hasn't made it through the cfc yet. I don't want to rely on that though, just keeping it as an option on days that I want to speed things up.

 

[Dog House Brew]

If all I ever planned to do was 5 gallon batches, Kegco would be my choice. It will not handle large batches efficiently though. I would by the cheaper Kegco and pump ice water through it. I too do 12-20 gallon batches and the Kegco didn’t work for me. There just wasn’t enough length to make it fast enough. I’m going to get the Stout for Christmas. I’m going back to my 25’ DIY copper CFC until then.

 

[Frymn1969]

Has anyone with a HERMS HLT stainless coil, tried filling the HLT with ice, then whirlpool the wort through the HLT until the entire batch is cooled to pitch temp? My ground water temp is rarely sufficient to chill to pitch temp.

 

[mongoose33]

I have no basis for comparison on different CFCs. I have the Stout. It's a heavy, well-made bugger (at least what I can see externally), but I was a little disappointed in the performance. Takes about 25 minutes to get a batch cooled down to around 70 degrees. After chilling batches with the Jaded Hydra in as little as 4 minutes, this seems slow. Maybe it's as good as I can get if I want to be stainless.

And FWIW, I bought it for LODO reasons. If i didn't care about LODO, I'd have a copper CFC. I can't use the immersion chiller because I've set my system up to use the @BrunDog steam catcher system I bought from BrewHardware. And I can't use copper because, well, LODO.

 

[augiedoggy]

His immersion is stainless, or at least I inferred stainless by his phrase "stick with stainless."

And again, not being argumentative, I just want to be sure I'm not missing something. Knowledge is Power and all that other motivational stuff.

I misread that then.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I have no basis for comparison on different CFCs. I have the Stout. It's a heavy, well-made bugger (at least what I can see externally), but I was a little disappointed in the performance. Takes about 25 minutes to get a batch cooled down to around 70 degrees. After chilling batches with the Jaded Hydra in as little as 4 minutes, this seems slow. Maybe it's as good as I can get if I want to be stainless.

And FWIW, I bought it for LODO reasons. If i didn't care about LODO, I'd have a copper CFC. I can't use the immersion chiller because I've set my system up to use the @BrunDog steam catcher system I bought from BrewHardware. And I can't use copper because, well, LODO.

Those times surprised me. I had planned to get one at the Holidays. I guess I’ll be pumping ice water through it. The CFC is the last non stainless item I have.

 

[nealoshima]

I’m also shopping for a CFC so I appreciate your research. As you say a lot of the performance depends on flow rate, chill water temps, etc. But based on your numbers it seems the Stout has at least twice the inside tubing surface area compared to the others. They’re all in the $200 dollar range but the Stout already has TC clamps and is 304 SS inside and out. Also I have their 20 gal mash tun and 23 gal conical and the workmanship and design is outstanding, so for me it’s a no-brainer.

 

[sicktght311]

I have the northern brewer CFC and currently with 55-58 degree ground temps, it takes me about 20 total minutes to knockout to the fermenter at 65. Typically i'll run the wort through the pump, cfc, and then back into the whirlpool port of the kettle for about 10 minutes to drive the wort temp in the kettle down to around 100-120, then i'll throttle back the pump speed until my temp gauge on the outlet of the CFC reads my target knock out temp, and i'll start transferring directly to the fermenter. This accomplishes a few things

1) compact trub cone in my boil kettle
2) much cooler wort coming from the boil kettle through the CFC when it comes time to transfer directly to the fermenter, which makes it much easier to dial back to manageable flow rates to pump into the fermenter
3) reduces the total chilling time considerably than either chilling the entire boil kettle down to the target temp then knocking out, or trying to knock out from the boil kettle directly to the fermenter in one pass without first cooling the wort down from boiling

 

[Dog House Brew]

I have the northern brewer CFC and currently with 55-58 degree ground temps, it takes me about 20 total minutes to knockout to the fermenter at 65. Typically i'll run the wort through the pump, cfc, and then back into the whirlpool port of the kettle for about 10 minutes to drive the wort temp in the kettle down to around 100-120, then i'll throttle back the pump speed until my temp gauge on the outlet of the CFC reads my target knock out temp, and i'll start transferring directly to the fermenter. This accomplishes a few things

1) compact trub cone in my boil kettle
2) much cooler wort coming from the boil kettle through the CFC when it comes time to transfer directly to the fermenter, which makes it much easier to dial back to manageable flow rates to pump into the fermenter
3) reduces the total chilling time considerably than either chilling the entire boil kettle down to the target temp then knocking out, or trying to knock out from the boil kettle directly to the fermenter in one pass without first cooling the wort down from boiling

I use the same process. I bought a small kiddie pool and a small pump. I put 3 frozen gallon jugs of ice in it. I let ground water get me to 110-120, and turn on ice water pump. I can take 20 gallons down to 65 in 30 min. If I have plenty of ice, I can take it to mid 40’s for lagers in 20 minutes or so. My structure is a 3 tier. If I had a single tier I’d ice my HEX as a pre chiller. I used to have a small stainless CFC, but it was too small for 20g batches. I went back to my DIY 25’ 1/2” copper in 1” rubber hose CFC. Steel prices are dropping like crazy. Hope to buy a few sticks of stainless and roll my own. $225 is hard for me to swollow. I wonder why Stout is making them 30’. My last piece of copper in the brewery.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Thanks for the replies everyone! The impression I am getting is the Stout is the way to go if you want a stainless steel cfc and do large batches. For those that do 5 gallon batches the Kegco could be a good choice for those on a budget but the Stout would be quicker if you can afford it. As for using the immersion chiller. I'm not currently a LODO brewer but am reading about it and considering it in the future so those comments are appreciated. My IC happens to be stainless steel and I have thought about using it in the kettle along with the cfc at the beginning of chilling to knock the temp of the wort that hasn't made it through the cfc yet. I don't want to rely on that though, just keeping it as an option on days that I want to speed things up.

Did you buy the Stout? What were your thoughts?

 

[Keith81]

I went with the Kegco. I like it, although it does take me about 20-30 min to cool a 5 gallon batch. That time is acceptable to me because I'm able to dedicate the whole day to brewing (there are advantages to being single).

 

[Dog House Brew]

I went with the Kegco. I like it, although it does take me about 20-30 min to cool a 5 gallon batch. That time is acceptable to me because I'm able to dedicate the whole day to brewing (there are advantages to being single).

There are many advantages to being single. You could have a fan club! 20 years this November, man more advantages than you know.
A cheap pump and some ice would do you justice if you ever want to save water and time. Thanks for the reply. When I was really looking, Exchillerator said they would never do stainless. I see they are now doing it. I sold my version like yours. I wish I had kept it and found another to out in series. Thanks