SSR Selection Assistance

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mainiac

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I'm embarking on a new brew-rig build and I would appreciate some component selection advice from my brothers and sisters on the forum. I have combed the forum(s) and googled my ass off in trying to review the options available for my build, so please be patient with me if there wast a thread that already covered this . . .

I don't want to spend money just to spend money, but I don't want to skimp on the most important bits as I see them. I tend to over-engineer the things that I do, but when dealing with electrical stuff I don't think you can be too prudent.

My build is going to be a single vessel (biab style) recirculating rig using a PID for temperature control, and I am going to be utilizing a 4500w element for heating purposes. I figure a 40-ish amp SSR would be comfortably appropriate (plenty of wiggle room), and I don't want to buy a cheap SSR just for the sake of saving money - but I don't want to overspend for something that really won't benefit me.

So, as a result of my research, I am look pretty hard at these SSR's from Optio 22 . . . . http://www.newark.com/opto-22/240d4...M9785?mckv=sx6asDisF|pcrid|61425296915|plid||[keyword_text]|match|p&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SKU-MDC-OPTO_22?gross_price=

I know that I could get something cheaper, and many here have had good results with the such, but I guess I really want to know if these are appropriate and will work for my purposes.

Thanks to all, and Happy Brewing!
 

Bensiff

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Yes, those will work. Or you could buy one from Auber or another who caters to brewers building e-rigs with good customer service...and you can combine shipping with other stuff you will need.
 
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mainiac

mainiac

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Yes, those will work. Or you could buy one from Auber or another who caters to brewers building e-rigs with good customer service...and you can combine shipping with other stuff you will need.
I was actually going to purchase through Amazon, as I get free shipping through my prime account, but I used the Newark link because it provided a better spec sheet listing. I will be buying some stuff through Auber, but I have read mixed review about their SSR's.
 

pablosbrewing

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I was actually going to purchase through Amazon, as I get free shipping through my prime account, but I used the Newark link because it provided a better spec sheet listing. I will be buying some stuff through Auber, but I have read mixed review about their SSR's.
Many failures can be attributed to known causes, even the good stuff will fail under these conditions:

 
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augiedoggy

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I was actually going to purchase through Amazon, as I get free shipping through my prime account, but I used the Newark link because it provided a better spec sheet listing. I will be buying some stuff through Auber, but I have read mixed review about their SSR's.
Aubers SSR's are fine... They are the same Mager brand ssrs you find on ebay for $11 shipped with a heatsink only they have them relabeled and sell them for about $20 shipped with no heatsink... if you need them fast then its a good option.

many ssr failures are a result of poor installation and cooling. The knock off foteks are hit or miss (I have used 3 with no problems myself)
 

augiedoggy

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These are available again. They are two SSRs in one body. I use them in my rig and I am planning on building another rig with these next week. http://www.ebay.com/itm/321711347394

As with any SSR make sure you use thermal grease and an adequate heatsink.
I have one of these as well and it works great. certainly cant beat the deal at over $100 off the original price...
 
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mainiac

mainiac

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Many failures can be attributed to known causes, even the good stuff will fail under these conditions:

All good points, well taken. I never thought about using a wrist strap when working on an SSR, but seeing as they ARE a big semiconductor, it makes sense.

Aubers SSR's are fine... They are the same Mager brand ssrs you find on ebay for $11 shipped with a heatsink only they have them relabeled and sell them for about $20 shipped with no heatsink... if you need them fast then its a good option.
I'm not in a big hurry, it'll be at least a couple weeks before I start ordering parts so I wanted to take the time to get some recommendations.

I found these at Automation Direct . . . they seem to be of good quality, nice safety cover, and come with a thermal pad (no messing with birdsh*t). Price is decent, too.
 
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thomasjr16

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Here's my experience to date...

I started with a 40 amp Auber SSR that I blew up (wiring issue) before being able to use so I'll never know its quality, but I presume it would have worked fine based other HBT'ers comments

I then order a 2 for $19 40 amp Fotek deal and had issues with the SSR not kicking off as my heat sink (rated for 40 amps, and only running a single 5.5kw element) would get warm/hot and not dissipate the heat fast enough. My solution was a $5 USB fan that's solved my problem completely.

I also order a "new, old stock" 50 amp Crydom SSR that's just waiting for its day to shine, but won't be installed until my Fotek poops the bed. I got it on eBay for $9 shipped so look around and u can get a deal if you have the time
 

mabrungard

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I like the Opto22 and Crydom brands. They are solid producers. The other producers like Fotek are hit or miss. Part of the problem is reportedly counterfeit producers. Brands like Fotek have a cheap backplate and plastic cover and are really easy to counterfeit. Brands like Opto and Crydom have cast backplates and are rubber (epoxy?) potted and MUCH harder to counterfeit (aka: less worthwhile to counterfeit!).

Through waiting and observing eBay for a couple of months, I was able to obtain my quota of Opto22 SSR's for my system. This was after having a Fotek crap out on me in the middle of a boil. Think twice about being cheap with these components.
 

spittybug

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I just bought some of the Teledyne 50a dual SSRs as mentioned in earlier posts. Seem pretty beefy; much more so than the Foteks. Each SSR is controlled by 4 little input pins and is capable of 2 independent circuit controls. This leads to questions:

  • Is anyone using one of these dual SSRs to control both legs of a 240v 5500w heating element?
  • Is there an advantage in doing so?
  • Even though rated at 50a and heat sinked, is this too much juice going through the two sides of the SSR?
I have to go back and educate myself....why does one only need to switch one of the two legs? Does this not mean that the element will be on at 50% power all the time?

Thanks for the replies! Brew on.
 

augiedoggy

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I just bought some of the Teledyne 50a dual SSRs as mentioned in earlier posts. Seem pretty beefy; much more so than the Foteks. Each SSR is controlled by 4 little input pins and is capable of 2 independent circuit controls. This leads to questions:

  • Is anyone using one of these dual SSRs to control both legs of a 240v 5500w heating element?
  • Is there an advantage in doing so?
  • Even though rated at 50a and heat sinked, is this too much juice going through the two sides of the SSR?
I have to go back and educate myself....why does one only need to switch one of the two legs? Does this not mean that the element will be on at 50% power all the time?

Thanks for the replies! Brew on.
if you cut one leg there will be no power to the element.... the circuit is not complete and the juice cant flow through the element... If you were to put a meter in a light bulb socket with the switch off you would find that there is still power (leakage from the neutral) on one of the two contacts...but without a complete path the power does nothing.

you could wire it the way you suggest but using a relay or contactor is a more foolproof way to cut all power to the element.. especially in the event of an ssr failure.
 

spittybug

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Duh, I think it is the fact that there are 2 hot, 1 ground wires (not a neutral) going to the element that confused me. It is one hot phase going to the other hot (inverted) phase that gives the 240v circuit. The ground is only a safety.

I agree, since SSRs tend to fail closed when they fail, having a contactor to shut things off completely is safer.

The only reason I see to SSR switch both legs is in the event of one of the hot legs getting exposed to the water (rust through maybe?) and grounding, thus running the element at 120v unknowingly. This should trip the GFCI immediately however, wouldn't it?
 

spittybug

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Just tested new panel. Elements aren't coming on. All seems fine up to SSR. Maybe T and L are reversed on the SSR leads.... can't find documentation on which is for input and which is for output or if it even matters.

Could also be the SSR output of the PID. Paperwork says pin 3 is + while the label on the unit itself says pin 3 is the -. I love Asian documentation.......

UPDATE: Diagram on side of PID unit is correct, paperwork is incorrect. Probed all terminals very carefully while plugged in (I'm not a fan of playing around with 220V!!!! Had 110v on each leg. 220v across 2 leads going to elements. WTF????? Check the obvious dummy. I unplugged everything and unscrewed the elements from the can housings. Yup, in both cases the leads had come off when screwing the cans on. I'm lucky I didn't have a short to ground. I was using forks under the screws. Looks like I need eyes instead, that way the rotation of putting the can together won't undo them. I'm also going to slip the ground wire out and connect it to the outside of the can instead of the inside. This way I can always have a 100% visual that I'm properly grounded. I don't like what I can't see.......
 

Spazdog

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I notice these parts are the R(random turn on) as opposed to the D( Zero cross turn on ) is that correct?
SD24R50 as opposed to the SD24D50 respective

Have you noticed any noise issues because of this? ... Mostly electrical noise issues I would assume.

Thanks
Spaz
 

thekraken

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Another Teledyne 50a dual SSRs user here. Something to keep in mind with those is that the guy is selling them for $10-15, while the same SSR costs ~$150 from retailers. Take that for what you will but it's a hell of a discount.

Also, what ever you get make sure to inspect the bottom surface for flatness. Mine were curved enough that I felt I needed to lap them flat. That's easy enough to do just something to look for before you install on your heatsink.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=511065

 

thekraken

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I notice these parts are the R(random turn on) as opposed to the D( Zero cross turn on ) is that correct?
SD24R50 as opposed to the SD24D50 respective

Have you noticed any noise issues because of this? ... Mostly electrical noise issues I would assume.

Thanks
Spaz
Yes the SD24R50 is random turn on.
I haven't noticed any issues in that regard. I use an arduino to control my ssrs, I also have a current transducer in my control box giving readouts to the arduino, I thought about using this combo for some zero cross detection but I haven't found it necessary. (yet - it's a forever work in progress project)
 
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