Squeeze the bag

[Fly_Guy]

So, without kettle markings, and dumping collected wart into another marked vessel, trying to measure the first volume running is impossible?

I might just use the .08/lb to see if that helps me with my numbers. Lately I've been able to start/use a total of 3.75 gallons and end up with about 2.25 gallons of easily siphonable wort. With higher hopped/adjunct grain bills it's little a little closer to 2 gallons

 

[DBhomebrew]

So, without kettle markings, and dumping collected wart into another marked vessel, trying to measure the first volume running is impossible?

Knowing the inside diameter of your kettle and measuring the height of the wort will allow you to use the formula for the volume of a cylinder.

 

[MaxStout]

 

[doug293cz]

View attachment 735314

Why?

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Does the water volume have to be exact? I kind of played it fast and loose and got pretty darn close....ran off about 5.2 gallons and no kettle trub with around 7.5 gallons of mash water.

Water volumes don't have to be exact to make beer - even good beer. But if you are interested in tracking efficiency, hitting target volumes closely, repeating recipes cosistently, etc., then yes, volume measurements need to be as accurate as possible. If you throw inaccurate data into a calculator, you get inaccurate answers.

Brew on

 

[MaxStout]

Why?

Brew on

I'm a bag-squeezer. The bird is not--it's just being noisy.

 

[Fly_Guy]

So I'm pretty handy and have a tape measure, however I don't know how I feel about sticking a metal tape measure in something im going to boil and drink.
Is there an easy way to mark my stainless steel brewing spoon? I know there's the thread on etching but im not sure if I want to buy the wire to give that a go or not

 

[DBhomebrew]

So I'm pretty handy and have a tape measure, however I don't know how I feel about sticking a metal tape measure in something im going to boil and drink.
Is there an easy way to mark my stainless steel brewing spoon? I know there's the thread on etching but im not sure if I want to buy the wire to give that a go or not

Got a Dremel?

I picked up a pretty cheap SS ruler off Amazon for just this purpose. I measure to the nearest mm which in my kettle works out to the nearest 1.something ounce.

 

[Nagorg]

FWIW when I toured the Coors Brewery in Golden, CO, I was surprised to see that they use big bags that line their MLT's. They call them "Filters". After the mash, these are hoisted and "pressed" to extract as much as they can prior to moving on to the boil.

So Coors is a squeezer!

 

[soccerdad]

Do you guys always run with false inferences and implications? lol

What is inferred from "sugar-heavy" is that the spent grain is still surrounded by wort after extraction, and that wort is dense with sugars. Whatever else you've decided for yourselves after reading that is entirely and solely self-revealing. If you're desperate for a win though, feel free to ignore me and high five each other and ****.

My bad. I'm probably the person who led us off the trail. In my reply I noted that sugars outside the bag should equal sugars inside the bag. Or sugar equal. I took sugar heavy to mean that if you took sugar heavy wort from inside the bag you would gain gravity points...it would increase the sugars outside the bag. Sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[Fly_Guy]

Nice. I really like the SS ruler idea. Did you put in a gallon of water and use that to figure out where the mm's measured up, or did you use the formula for volume of a cylinder?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Nice. I really like the SS ruler idea. Did you put in a gallon of water and use that to figure out where the mm's measured up, or did you use the formula for volume of a cylinder?

I did put a gallon in to confirm my kettle's ID. It's nominally 12", but 11.97" made the formula work better. The gallon measured by weight.

ETA: Above was how I 'calibrated' my calculator (homemade brewday spreadsheet). When I collect water for a batch I measure it out by weight to the gram. Checked by ruler, it's always within 1/2mm from what I expect it to be in height. From there on out through the day the ruler measures the height, I put that in my spreadsheet and the sheet spits out actual volume and also volume corrected to 68°F. The corrected volumes provide grain absorption, etc.

 

[BrewZer]

Water volumes don't have to be exact to make beer - even good beer. But if you are interested in tracking efficiency, hitting target volumes closely, repeating recipes cosistently, etc., then yes, volume measurements need to be as accurate as possible. If you throw inaccurate data into a calculator, you get inaccurate answers.

Brew on

That sounds a lot like work.

I brew to keep me from working.

OBTW, I squeeze because the hot grain feels good soothing my aging and creaking hands.

 

[BrewZer]

FWIW when I toured the Coors Brewery in Golden, CO, I was surprised to see that they use big bags that line their MLT's. They call them "Filters". After the mash, these are hoisted and "pressed" to extract as much as they can prior to moving on to the boil.

So Coors is a squeezer!

View attachment 735328

They must use a very small-pored bag then, and apparently it catches all the flavor.

 

[doug293cz]

That sounds a lot like work.

I brew to keep me from working.

OBTW, I squeeze because the hot grain feels good soothing my aging and creaking hands.

It's a hobby, do it any way you want. I just try to provide accurate information for people to do with what they wish - ignoring it is one option.

Brew on

 

[Cyclman]

Squeeze away, if the tannin thing were real, it would be heavily apparent in my beers. My squeezing is extreme.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Squeeze away, if the tannin thing were real, it would be heavily apparent in my beers. My squeezing is extreme.View attachment 735342

That sounds a lot like work.

I brew to keep me from working.

 

[BrewZer]

You missed the part about the warmth soothing my aching hands...

 

[Fly_Guy]

@DBhomebrew

Thanks! Looks like I've got some re-self math education to do!

 

[DBhomebrew]

@DBhomebrew

Thanks! Looks like I've got some re-self math education to do!

Brewing definitely upped my Google Sheets skills.

 

[Fly_Guy]

I've completely derailed this thread, and I apologize, but how did you figure out the ATC for water?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Nice. I really like the SS ruler idea. Did you put in a gallon of water and use that to figure out where the mm's measured up, or did you use the formula for volume of a cylinder?

My rather crude solution is a handful of "dipsticks" made from chopsticks that I used a permanent marker to mark volumes. The chopsticks are some type of plastic-ish material (the label says "high elephant tusk chopsticks" but they are clearly not elephant tusks). I use a formula to measure out volumes, mark a few with a pencil, verify the measurements with liquid, then mark with the permanent marker. I am sure you could use a variety of materials or items for something similar. I have dip sticks for my 10, two 5 and 3 gallon pots. I have to refresh the marks now and then.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've completely derailed this thread, and I apologize, but how did you figure out the ATC for water?

Calculated from observed values. Roughly...

Room temp to strike/mash range: +2.7%
Room temp to boil: +4%

 

[CascadesBrewer]

On a (almost) related topic. What temp do you measure your strike water?

I measure strike water at "tap" temperature. I know that my tap varies from 55F-ish to 75F-ish, but I don't take the temp into account. I measure my pre-boil and post-boil volume at near boiling temps. I use a grain absorption value of 0.06875 gal/lb (well...I use a value of “0.55 fl oz/oz” which are the units that BeerSmith uses). That value works for me, but I know I measure my strike and pre-boil water at different temps. I know BeerSmith has a "shrinkage %" value, but I have wondered a bit about how it account for an "expansion %" when heating water.

When I first started with BIAB I was squeezing and at first measured an absorption value of 0.05 gal/lb. I started with that for a few batches but found that I was often coming up a little short on volume. I ditched the aggressive squeezing and went for the 0.069 gal/lb value to make brew day easier and more predictable. At the same time I dropped my target overall efficiency from 75% to 73%.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I don't account for varying 'room temps' or 'strike/mash temps' either. 'Pitch temp' is lumped in with 'room temp' too, even though it's typically 10° lower. I'll probably figure out another percentage value for 'kviek pitch temp'.

I measure strike and sparge volumes at room temp. 1st runnings at mash temp. Preboil just before boil (having let the bag free hang for that time). Post-boil at flameout. Chilled volume at pitch temp.

All derived system values are figured with the temp corrected volume. I use BrewCipher, it's all room temp there.

 

[Fly_Guy]

I know my pot is flared, I think my best bet is to do a measure and mark and then compare that to the math.

From there I'll re read this thread and figure out what else I need/want to tinker with

 

[Toxxyc]

I do an extra dunk-sparge in a bucket and then suspend the bag by a rope. Let it hang over the kettle for the duration of the boil as well.

 

[tracer bullet]

Calculated from observed values. Roughly...

Room temp to strike/mash range: +2.7%
Room temp to boil: +4%

In case others didn't notice, these look like small numbers but are important. On a 5 gallon batch of beer you could be talking 1/8 gallon at mash temp and 1/4 gallon around boil. Meaning this is how much your liquid expands and fools you when you measure it for gravity calculations, deciding if you've boiled enough off, and so on.

 

[Fly_Guy]

Does the expansion of water actually 'dilute' or give false readings of gravity?

I took some advanced chemistry classes long ago but a lot of it has escaped me.

To account for those percentages, can one simply multiply those by the inch or mm marking to find out what the corrected reading would be? So for example every gallon is 2 inches, at room temp 5 gallons would measure to 10 inches at a boil, 5 gallons would then measure 10.4 inches?

 

[odie]

Does the expansion of water actually 'dilute' or give false readings of gravity?

My hydrometer came with a correction table for temps. FWIW I've been really bad about making sure all my readings are at the same temps. But I've noticed a hot sample will go up several points as it cools off.