I set mine up with the sample valve and the thermo-well switched. Clean samples.
Spike Conical- observations and best practices
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Before Spike had the multi-port cover, the one port lid as you have, I built my own spunding set up. A 1/2" tee from a 1.5" TC. Straight up is a 1/4" cross fitting with the spunding items (gauge, adjustable PRV and a keg QD post). Also on the 1/2" tee is a small ball valve that I can attach a blow off tube. A picture would help if I had my phone with me - sorry.
I use this Spunding Valve to ferment under pressure and purge my kegs with the fermentation Co2. Works great.
The best suggestion I have seen here is to just swap the thermowell and sample port. If you use the thermometer, then this might not work or may be less advantageous.
Guess I should have refreshed. Needless to say, I agree.
you could do this but an easier approach may be to have only the blowoff cane on there during initial fermentation. once it stops blowing off (or never starts), swap it out with the new all-in-one spunding valve. no need to purchase an additional tee or valve. any little oxygen that gets in the conical when swapping will get consumed by the active yeast.
It probably works fine that way. For now I've capped off the sample port and if I really want to take a sample I will mount the sample valve on top of the racking arm. Two batches doing this now and I've not bothered with samples...
finally felt up to doing some testing on the cip today, Been down with the post-covid wuhan funk. I tried both pumps. a blichmann riptide and a generic mark vII or whatever it is. both were about the same and disappointing. i put the elbow on the sample port to run sanitizer back to the pump, pump up to the cip, pump sitting about a foot off the floor. i ran that for about 10 minutes each with the coil out and the 4" open. Cip was spinning but a lot of water was dumping out low, the sides were getting hit with a weak spray. the top 4" of sidewall in the cf10 and lid were pretty dry. i had to put my hand in about 4" to start feeling some intermittent drops. not sure if its an issue with the CIP, my pumps, or the setup.
likely a pump issue. i use a 1/3 hp sump pump from a big box store and that thing blasts. with your setup, a riptide is only going to get you maybe 5 gpm of flow. that sump pump is about 30 gpm.
- ok sounds good . I’ll look into that at HD . Itll give me something extra to do with the old 5G fermenting bucket. Lol
i basically built this: Another DIY Keg/Fermenter Washer
it was built to clean kegs and carboys and while it still cleans kegs, easily adaptable to a conical. there is enough water blasting out the top of the pump discharge that i replaced that spray ball with a camlock connector, no impact on keg cleaning. so when cleaning the conical, i run a hose from the pump discharge to the spray ball on the conical lid, conical discharges into the bucket the pump sits in.
i also use the pump/bucket to clean my keezer lines (six faucets). take the faucets off and hook pump discharge to one of the faucet positions. jumper beer lines together in the keezer and remaining faucets on exterior so all the lines are in series. last connection drains into the sump pump bucket, easy recirculation of cleaner. there is enough resistance in all the tubing that the 1/3 hp pump doesn't overpower it.
I built the same set up but for the bucket part I drilled 1" holes around the perimeter on bottom edge. The bucket then sits in my brewery sink filled with PBW and hot water. I use this setup mostly to clean kegs, but it could be adapter to the clean the fermenter too as you have noted. Works great with a utility pump but the 1/3 HP you have would work better with the fermenter 4"TC spray ball setup I bought. So many nifty things we build!
I found a decent looking sump pump 1/4hp 30gpm with no float shutoff. Thats probably 5-6x what I have now. Should work well. Not sure how they handle hot water but we’re going to find out in two days
Most are rated up to something like 120-125°F (basically hot tap water). They cannot withstand heat anywhere near what a Chugger/March/Blichmann can.
Hmm. Could pump in to fermenter around 150 and dump heavy debris. Open drain to sump bucket when gets down to 125. That should be warm enough to have a good cleaning circulation with pbw
Temperature is an issue with the 1/3 HP pumps. I press mine to about 135F, but not more than that. I run 180+F PBW through a Riptide for 20+ mins., to get the heavy stuff out, then replace fluid to a new 135F batch and use the high volume sump pump for another 20+ minutes. I also remove the coil, to reduce the potential for blind spots. and clean that by hand in the bucket. This process seems to work pretty well.
The CIP ball really does not tolerate solids much at all. I get the solids out with a hose and tap water. I'm using a 1/3 hp sump pump and keep my cleaning solution at 125-130F. I just run it longer than I might be able to if the solution was much hotter. The lid comes off every time and gets cleaned by hand in a sink with warm water and a soft sponge. Then it gets put back on and run through the cleaning cycle.
To be honest even with the pump the agitation created by the ball is underwhelming. I'm currently pushing the cleaning solution up a 60" in a silicone tube (1/2 ID) to an elbow barb leading into the CIP ball. I'm thinking to swap that for a 60" x 1.5" PVC tube before reducing to the half inch silicone tube for last 6" or so. Any pump experts out there think that would help me get more pressure to the CIP ball?
To be honest even with the pump the agitation created by the ball is underwhelming. I'm currently pushing the cleaning solution up a 60" in a silicone tube (1/2 ID) to an elbow barb leading into the CIP ball. I'm thinking to swap that for a 60" x 1.5" PVC tube before reducing to the half inch silicone tube for last 6" or so. Any pump experts out there think that would help me get more pressure to the CIP ball?
my pump is rated to 120 degree f, most cheapo pumps will have the same rating, plenty fine for hot water out of the tap. that has been my cleaning water for years, can't say i've had an issue where hotter water would have helped.
yup, same routine here. my initial clean is plain hot water through the cip but only one pass (i.e. not recirculated). this gets rid of basically all the heavy gunk. then i circulate hot water with cleaner. after that, a one pass of plain hot water. then i take the lid off and use a sponge on any little stuff that happens to be leftover. and obviously easier to clean a lid if there wasn't a blowoff.
Not to side-step the pump/CIP cleaning of the Spike fermenter but why not just clean it up by removing the lid and flushing out the big chunks to drain from the bottom. My fermenter sits near the brew sink. After a brew I dump any residuals into a bucket then remove the fermenter lid and flush it out with a hose connected to the sink. After that I fill the fermenter with hot water and PBW then clean the inside manually. After I drain the fermenter, I remove everything from the body and clean those. After everything is clean and dry I spray every part with sanitize then reassembly everything. Yeah, it's the old fashion way but I like to make sure every nook and cranny is clean. It only takes a speak of crap to ruin a batch of beer. But, whatever way works for the masses, no wrong way to keep everything clean.
CIP lets you reduce the amount of chemical used in cleaning or sanitizing vs filling the vessel. With a CF15 I'm thinking that would be about 13.5 oz of PBW to do the fill and soak at recommended use rate vs about 2 oz with CIP.
that is starting to sound more appealing at least for the initial clean. i mean youre going to remove the lid anyway and clean the accessories. fill with 1-2G water/cleaner, quick sponge wipe to get the crud out. drain. sounds pretty easy. It also seems like the cip ball just doesn't work that well. not sure its worth it to make it work. would it be less hassle to just do as OIB mentions above and do similar for the sanitizing, pour some in and wipe?
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i use cip for convenience more that anything else. set it and walk away for 15 minutes or whatever and wipe down, no scrubbing required.
try the cip out with that sump pump, you will see a world of difference.
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I just kegged the 3rd brew with my CF10. I drained and cleaned all the solids (lots of hops for an IPA), and then ran the CIP with mu Chugger. I also have a homemade keg washer with a 1/3 HP sump pump like itsnotrequired, but I have no issue with the Chugger. No, it doesn't spray down the walls at high pressure, but it easily rinses everything down over the course of 30 minutes or more. I ran the much higher flow pump after my first IPA brew, but I think it is overkill. Maybe I will get "lazier" over time and look for the CIP to clean everything, but I feel like the pressure with the Spike CIP is adequate.
@eric19312 @WESBREW
I also ordered those dip tubes from Bobby. I know they are made for kettles, but they fit nice in my Flex+, and my CF-10 after seeing Webrew's pics. I've not had the chance to test them as they just arrived a couple of hours ago. Here's a couple of pics for those with a Flex/Flex+ (I know this thread is on the conical, but figured a few of us had the Flex).
I bought these initially for when I upgrade to some new kettles. I may give them a test run and see how they perform in a conical/Flex. I also like how this dip tube allows me to have the butterfly closer to the fermenter making it less front heavy.
Yeah, the Flex looks a little dusty. I've been out of the brewing game for a little while, but it will be nice, clean, and shiny on the next brew day.
Three things off the bat that may be a concern if one wants to go this route.
1 The gap in the tube as mentioned earlier could harbor some nasties.
2) You won't, obviously, be able to rotate the tube since it installs from the inside. Something to think about for those who didn't order the racking arm when they bought their conical.
3) In the 90 degree down position, I'd worry about an air bubble being trapped in the bend of the dip tube during fermentation.
Sorry for the long winded post. Didn't know if this could be of use, so thought I'd post it in case it was.
I also ordered those dip tubes from Bobby. I know they are made for kettles, but they fit nice in my Flex+, and my CF-10 after seeing Webrew's pics. I've not had the chance to test them as they just arrived a couple of hours ago. Here's a couple of pics for those with a Flex/Flex+ (I know this thread is on the conical, but figured a few of us had the Flex).
I bought these initially for when I upgrade to some new kettles. I may give them a test run and see how they perform in a conical/Flex. I also like how this dip tube allows me to have the butterfly closer to the fermenter making it less front heavy.
Yeah, the Flex looks a little dusty. I've been out of the brewing game for a little while, but it will be nice, clean, and shiny on the next brew day.
Three things off the bat that may be a concern if one wants to go this route.
1 The gap in the tube as mentioned earlier could harbor some nasties.
2) You won't, obviously, be able to rotate the tube since it installs from the inside. Something to think about for those who didn't order the racking arm when they bought their conical.
3) In the 90 degree down position, I'd worry about an air bubble being trapped in the bend of the dip tube during fermentation.
Sorry for the long winded post. Didn't know if this could be of use, so thought I'd post it in case it was.
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Mind if I ask what the O.D. of the pickup tubes is? I'm thinking those are the ones with the friction seal O-rings. I've been looking at the to fit the drain port of a Braumeister 20L all-in-one. Clearance around the heating elements in the pot looks to be adequate as long as I can get a good seal between the dip tube and inside wall of the drain port.
I don't mind at all. If you're talking about the tube itself, around 1". The flange part that has the O-rings that the tube is pressed into looks to be around 1-7/16". They fit pretty snug in my Flex+ ports. Hope this helps.
I took your advice and disconnected one of the pumps on the chiller and hooked up the pump spike sent in the heating/cooling bundle...worked like a charm! Now I can regulate both heating and cooling with the one controller. Thanks again for the tip...can't believe I hadn't thought of it.
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Absolutely, and thanks. It's probably going to be too large. Most of the dimensions and fittings are metric, but I'll probably order one to see if it's at least close. I have a threaded TC fitting on the opposite side (outside of the BV drain port) with a butterfly valve, so the fitting doesn't need to be totally 'liquid tight' to work. Any minor seepage around the dip tube would be contained by the TC fittings. All I really need is for the dip tube to remain inserted in the port and not rotate freely. Hope @Bobby_M accepts returns.
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Hey, Bobby.
Yeah, I measured and the opening in the bulkhead of the BV is slightly larger than 1", so 1 7/16' isn't going to work. The pull through fitting has an I.D. of slightly more than 0.5". What I need is a ½" SS tube that bends 90 degrees, is 4 ½" long to the bend, drops down 2" from the bend, and has friction O-rings to hold the shaft in place on a 1.5" TC flange. Any ideas?
I find that it is indeed an issue with getting an accurate gravity reading. I have a beer currently in a CF10 that had an astounding amount of crud coming out of the sample port that impacted the gravity reading dramatically. It’s an absurdly dry hopped fermenting with Imperial Juice. The initial gravity readings I was taking were making me wonder if I had a stalled fermentation. I filled a sample cylinder today that read 1.034. I dumped it slowly and observed yeast and hop matter at the bottom of the cylinder. I went to grab another sample and got the dreaded trickle to firehouse you sometimes get with the screw type valve. I grabbed a good sized tupperware that happened to be in reach and had collected about a pint and a half in there before getting it closed. I took a new sample after that and got 1.025. This a very hazy beer so it wasn’t readily apparent what was in the cylinder.
I think the location of the port with the geometry of the CF10 puts it in a prime position to collect a bunch of junk. Before today, I had figured any yeast and hop debris would have little to no impact on gravity readings but my own eyes have proven that incorrect. Moving forward with heavily dry hopped beers, I’m going to sample off the racking port to take advantage of the arm. Swapping the thermowell with the sampling valve could help some, but the “official” sampling port also has a large ledge for stuff to collect.
--I hope that push in pick up tube works out. i decided to return the CIP as it wasn't quite working for me. Since they gave me a refund, went on and ordered another racking tube from them for the sample port.
--I couldn't get the CIP to work well enough with my brew pumps. I tried a sump pump which worked much better but kind of creates other issues. i didn't want to have all that in the house for the CIP ball.
Decided to do similar to what you describe to keep things simple. they are getting too complex.lol. bought a longer SS water hose and metal spray nozzle to go from the CF10 to the brew sink. i'll just manually CIP with hose and sponge. Its hands on but i can do that in 10 minutes while soaking lid/coil and parts in the sink. I can run really hot water to the tank from the HLT if needed and can adapt the hose to go from the HLT to the CF10 to spray it down with sanitizer. Sponge method might be good enough though. thats the plan anyway
We both tried other ways to clean the CF10, but cleaning it manually isn't so bad and really doesn't take that much time as you have found out. Like I mentioned I use one of those plastic spongy things or a wash rag and it does the job just fine. After dismantling everything I can visually check all of the valves, elbows and any other fittings. I use a spray bottle with sanitizer to spray everything down before reassembling. After it's all put back together, I open all of the valves and spray it down again till it drips out then close it up till brew day. On brew day I circulate sanitizer through the fermenter, chill coil, pump and all connected tubing. Standard practice and it works fine for my brewery. Let me know how that "push in pickup tube" works for you.
So nobody answered my question regarding hard piping my sump pump to increase flow/pressure. I give it a try and believe it was a success. Seems to be much improved.
Spike states the wetting pressure of their carb stone is 4psi in their process guide. In my experience, it seems to be 1psi or less. If I set my regulator to 13psi, in about 10 minutes the gauge on the their pressure manifold will read 12.5psi. Is it accurate to think that what the gauge on the manifold is reading is the actual pressure?
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I believe it is accurate to believe the fermenter manifold pressure reading is the actual pressure within the tolerance of the gage. Carbonation levels take 12-24 hours to equalize for the Spike carbonation stone. I have seen the fermenter gage reading approach the carb stone input pressure soon after connecting, however after a day the fermenter gage values for my stone are typically ~3 PSI less than the pressure input to the stone.
This link (Beer Carbonation Guide) provides a commercial brewery procedure for determining wetting pressure and accounting for head pressure to determine the correct value to set the stone pressure.
Shot from the top with racking added to the sample valve port. All good and the price from spike is really good. No noticeable weight added to front of conical. A lot of it is inside
The beautiful look of stainless steel - great picture!
I did my first hop rousing yesterday morning after dryhopping a neipa in my cf15. Once in the morning and once in the evening about 10 hours apart. I did my dry hop in 2 stages this time splitting the total amount in half and did 1 addition tuesday morning and the second addition Wednesday morning. My set up on the bottom of the cf15 is sight glass, butterfly, 90° elbow, butterfly, gas post. So I didn't have the elbow on during fermentation and didn't want to push the oxygen that would be in it into the fermenter, so I hooked the gas post to it at about 5psi, loosened the tri clamp at the top of the elbow and purged it the best I could then tightened the clamp... any thoughts on this or are you all keeping the elbow in place with the butterfly on the bottom of it and fill it on brewday when you fill the fermenter?
I no longer use my sight glass so my dry hopper will fit in my fridge...
I brew with barb > butterfly > elbow > CF15. Then swap the barb for the gas post when ready to rouse. I do the same loose tri clamp you are describing to flush the bit of air behind the post fitting before I start rousing.
Got it, thanks. I thought about the oxygen in the elbow after the fact as I decided to order the stuff to rouse after I had brewed this particular batch. I also thought if I did not get all the oxygen out of the elbow, how much of the little bit that may be left would actually have time to dissolve into the beer? Wouldn't it likely bubble to surface and be pushed out the top as I pull the prv, and not have a chance to dissolve into the liquid with the co2 forcing it out?
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