Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[Nate R]

UPDATE- After reviewing the Spike Website, I think I agree- the Thermowell is NO LONGER INCLUDED! The Thermowell now comes in the TC-100 cooling/heating option. Sorry all. That has changed since I ordered my cf5. Interesting...

Also- does anyone know if the Thermometer comes with a warranty? I cannot find a warranty on the website....

 

[eric19312]

Can't you also just keep the sight glass installed above the valve so that it's full of beer from the start?

yes that is where it goes. Somebody I think @Yesfan has been experimenting with sight glass below the valve and I was thinking to try that but I have gotten better at dumping and it is just not an issue. I am not quite sure what @FswBG is doing wrong but he has complained about this issue a couple times and would like to get him sorted out.

 

[Nate R]

Hey I believe the thermometer unscrews from the thermowell. When I received mine it came together and I unscrewed and tossed into the corner since I use the TC package.

I have the 2" sight glass and use it only when harvesting yeast. Some like to use it all the time or for trub, it's versatile to fit most needs. I just wish there was a way to purge the O2 before opening up the bottom valve and letting a giant air bubble rip up through the conical.

Back on topic...
@FswBG When you say opening up the bittom valve... do you mean when doing a trub or yeast dump? Short of a nor cal brink...
My understanding is by apply even just a bit of c02 up top (you need the spike pressure kit) that pressure should push outward during a dump. So little to no discerable oxygen.
Now... if you are refferring to adding dry hops... that is different.
Did i miss the question or problem? (I do that a lot)

 

[TheMadKing]

Back on topic...
@FswBG When you say opening up the bittom valve... do you mean when doing a trub or yeast dump? Short of a nor cal brink...
My understanding is by apply even just a bit of c02 up top (you need the spike pressure kit) that pressure should push outward during a dump. So little to no discerable oxygen.
Now... if you are refferring to adding dry hops... that is different.
Did i miss the question or problem? (I do that a lot)

My initial thought (could be misunderstanding) was that he is sealing his sight glass at the bottom (no outlet) and using it as a yeast catch (like a FermZilla or fermentasaurus jar) to harvest yeast by opening the valve after fermentation. In which case, you will always get an air bubble because there's nowhere for the air in the sealed sight glass to go but up into the headspace, no matter what pressure you have. The solution is to open the dump valve at the beginning of fermentation, and then close it and disconnect when you want to harvest yeast. Or harvest yeast into an open vessel with pressure in the headspace like Eric mentioned above

 

[Nate R]

My initial thought (could be misunderstanding) was that he is sealing his sight glass at the bottom (no outlet) and using it as a yeast catch (like a FermZilla or fermentasaurus jar) to harvest yeast by opening the valve after fermentation. In which case, you will always get an air bubble because there's nowhere for the air in the sealed sight glass to go but up into the headspace, no matter what pressure you have. The solution is to open the dump valve at the beginning of fermentation, and then close it and disconnect when you want to harvest yeast. Or harvest yeast into an open vessel with pressure in the headspace like Eric mentioned above

Ah... 10-4.
If that amount of oxygen is critical, then i think the nor cal brink option is about all that is out there, right? And if that amount of oxygen left behind from that is too much... then... time to head over to the LODO section, right?

 

[TheMadKing]

Ah... 10-4.
If that amount of oxygen is critical, then i think the nor cal brink option is about all that is out there, right? And if that amount of oxygen left behind from that is too much... then... time to head over to the LODO section, right?

Should probably wait for FswBG to chime in - since this is all speculation (I'm bad about that, sorry). But if you're wanting to harvest yeast like that, then the yeast bring allows you to push air out of the jar/sightglass while simultaneously filling it from the bottom, and then you shut the valve. The only thing exposed to the air is the yeast that you're harvesting, so I really don't see any harm in that at all

 

[eric19312]

Ah... 10-4.
If that amount of oxygen is critical, then i think the nor cal brink option is about all that is out there, right? And if that amount of oxygen left behind from that is too much... then... time to head over to the LODO section, right?

Amount of oxygen critical where? If you are concerned about harvesting yeast that has never been exposed to oxygen I guess yes. You could follow idea @TheMadKing suggested but thats a one shot deal. A yeast brink could be a solution to this problem.

But if you are trying to protect the beer in your fermentor from oxygen there is no issue at all and no need for more equipment. A little head pressure and you are good to go.

 

[Nagorg]

I only use my sight glass when dumping yeast. I attach it to the bottom valve in a closed position via the large ball valve I mentioned. I then open the bottom butterfly valve to allow yeast and trub to flow into the sight glass. Once full, I close the butterfly valve and then open the ball valve to drain the yeast.

I then rinse/repeat until I'm getting more beer than yeast; this is where the sight glass really comes in handy.

This method does allow air to enter the beer from the bottom and is what @FswBG is probably referring to. My solution for that is to purge the sightglass with CO2 via my small tank that I keep handy for purging kegs. pressure transfers etc...

So this is what I'd like to do with my CF5 but would need new 2" TC stuff for this. What I'm doing may not be "right" but its been working quite well.

I'm all ears for better suggestions!

 

[FswBG]

Can't you also just keep the sight glass installed above the valve so that it's full of beer from the start?

I used to do have it set up like that, but I don't like having dry hops or other additions compacted into the sight glass. I would think it limits the exposure/coalescence into the beer compared to resting above the bottom TC port. I'm always up for learning something new on a Friday though if that's incorrect?

 

[eric19312]

I used to do have it set up like that, but I don't like having dry hops or other additions compacted into the sight glass. I would think it limits the exposure/coalescence into the beer compared to resting above the bottom TC port. I'm always up for learning something new on a Friday though if that's incorrect?

Yah that's an issue. I've been having good luck with rousing the dry hops that settle into the glass with CO2 from the bottom. I put a spunding valve at 10 PSI on the gas manifold and push 15 PSI CO2 through the dump valve. I make sure the CO2 line and valve are purged before opening the valve. I tend to do 3x1 second blasts [turning the gas on and off at the gas regulator]. Then come back and repeat the rousing 12 hours later. 12 hours after that I start cold crashing.

 

[TheMadKing]

Yah that's an issue. I've been having good luck with rousing the dry hops that settle into the glass with CO2 from the bottom. I put a spunding valve at 10 PSI on the gas manifold and push 15 PSI CO2 through the dump valve. I make sure the CO2 line and valve are purged before opening the valve. I tend to do 3x1 second blasts [turning the gas on and off at the gas regulator]. Then come back and repeat the rousing 12 hours later. 12 hours after that I start cold crashing.

That's what my local brewery does actually, just as a matter of practice to keep the hops mixed thoroughly

 

[FswBG]

Back on topic...
@FswBG When you say opening up the bittom valve... do you mean when doing a trub or yeast dump? Short of a nor cal brink...
My understanding is by apply even just a bit of c02 up top (you need the spike pressure kit) that pressure should push outward during a dump. So little to no discerable oxygen.
Now... if you are refferring to adding dry hops... that is different.
Did i miss the question or problem? (I do that a lot)

Yes that's my issue. I'm less concerned about the yeast being exposed to oxygen as I am the fermented beer. I have the manifold and pressure transfer all my beers. My confusion was where the O2 goes with CO2 pushing down into the headspace. If opening up the valve that's above the sight glass forces the yeast/sediment/wort down does the O2 not travel upwards when being displaced?

The pics help @Nagorg ! And thanks for the suggestions @TheMadKing & @eric19312 . I may just need to add another valve in the mix to replicate what the yeast brink is doing the old fashioned way or keep the valve open during fermentation and use CO2 to mix up any additions going forward.

 

[eric19312]

Yes that's my issue. I'm less concerned about the yeast being exposed to oxygen as I am the fermented beer. I have the manifold and pressure transfer all my beers. My confusion was where the O2 goes with CO2 pushing down into the headspace. If opening up the valve that's above the sight glass forces the yeast/sediment/wort down does the O2 not travel upwards when being displaced?

The pics help @Nagorg ! And thanks for the suggestions @TheMadKing & @eric19312 . I may just need to add another valve in the mix to replicate what the yeast brink is doing the old fashioned way or keep the valve open during fermentation and use CO2 to mix up any additions going forward.

Here is the rousing video example. I have the sight glass attached to the unitank, the elbow below the sight glass, and the butterfly valve below the elbow.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[TheMadKing]

Here is the rousing video example. I have the sight glass attached to the unitank, the elbow below the sight glass, and the butterfly valve below the elbow.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It kinda looks like the hops are just bouncing on the bubbles in the sight glass, but they are definitely mixing with beer. have you observed good/better hop flavor doing this?

 

[Yesfan]

yes that is where it goes. Somebody I think @Yesfan has been experimenting with sight glass below the valve and I was thinking to try that but I have gotten better at dumping and it is just not an issue. I am not quite sure what @FswBG is doing wrong but he has complained about this issue a couple times and would like to get him sorted out.

Half right. I don't have a sight glass (yet), but I placed the dump valve above the elbow. I think I like it better this way. It seemed dumping the trub was easier since it doesn't collect and compact in the bend of the elbow. Just don't do like I did and try and rack the beer before dumping all the trub out.

 

[eric19312]

It kinda looks like the hops are just bouncing on the bubbles in the sight glass, but they are definitely mixing with beer. have you observed good/better hop flavor doing this?

Good for sure, probably better. I try not to overdo it because I worry I might be blowing some of the aromas out the spunding valve so not running it as long as I did in this video. 3 short blasts.

I'd say my beers have developed a pleasing NEIPA type appearance/character. Hazy without suspended hop particles. Even though I am fermenting with US-05 and no dry hops dry until after fermentation is over and I've harvested my yeast.

 

[Yesfan]

Looks tasty Eric!

 

[Nagorg]

I've often wanted to attach my sightglass to the bottom TC port, before the Butterfly and elbow, but I dont have that much room underneath the conical. I'd need leg extensions for that which would make my half barrel fermenter too tall for the upright freezer.

I could probably do that though with leg extensions on the CF5; and get that brace along with it...

 

[Nagorg]

I can't quite find the need for one (I have a CF10), but if I did, i'd buy one in a heartbeat.

I wish I had one so I could have two batches going at once. It would allow me to have two going at once. When i need two batches going I break out the old Bigmouth Bubbler and go old-school.

And yes, perhaps some stuff should come standard, and so on, but that's nitpicking IMO.

But in the meantime, I'll suffer along w/ the CF10. BTW, you can do 5-gallon batches in the CF10 just fine. I have been.

Trust me, I keep going back and fourth between the CF10 and the CF5 for the small price difference. I have to keep reminding myself that my goal is focused on batches smaller than 10G. (I mostly do 10G batches in my half barrel Chronical but have done full volume several times.)

The CF5 seems like a more sensible thing for my situation since I'ts range is 2.5G-6G. Seems like a nice option given my current capability. And that I dont see myself making a 20-25G batch just for me.. (Though I do have a 30G boil kettle... )

I've also got the Big Mouth Bubblers and thats the biggest reason I havent already pulled the trigger on the CF5. But I really like SS....

 

[eric19312]

I've often wanted to attach my sightglass to the bottom TC port, before the Butterfly and elbow, but I dont have that much room underneath the conical. I'd need leg extensions for that which would make my half barrel fermenter too tall for the upright freezer.

I could probably do that though with leg extensions on the CF5; and get that brace along with it...

How tall is your freezer? I put CF15 with the shorty leg extensions in mine and fits fine with room to get my head in there on top of the fermentor and look inside the 4" port.

 

[jekeane]

Official statement from spike on the Thermometer for current units. It is a one piece tri clamp gauge and no you can not swap it out for a thermowell. Bummer for anyone buying now.

 

[TheMadKing]

Official statement from spike on the Thermometer for current units. It is a one piece tri clamp gauge and no you can not swap it out for a thermowell. Bummer for anyone buying now.

Surely if it's triclamp you can remove it and swap it out for a triclamp thermowell...

 

[Nagorg]

How tall is your freezer? I put CF15 with the shorty leg extensions in mine and fits fine with room to get my head in there on top of the fermentor and look inside the 4" port.

You made me go measure.. LOL I have ~15" between the top of the freezer and the top of the 4" top port. The SSBrewTech leg extensions are 10" and I need ~6.5 inches to accommodate the sight glass. So it's possible that I could do that but it would make for a tight fit with an airlock on top. I could remedy that with a blow-off tube or cane I guess but I sure like not needing those.

 

[Nagorg]

Surely if it's triclamp you can remove it and swap it out for a triclamp thermowell...

Yes you can. But now the Thermowell is an add-on when it was included before.

 

[TheMadKing]

Yes you can. But now the Thermowell is an add-on when it was included before.

Well the one I'm picking up tomorrow was purchased in August 2019 so hopefully that was before they made this change.

 

[eric19312]

Well the one I'm picking up tomorrow was purchased in August 2019 so hopefully that was before they made this change.

You should be fine. I bought mine in October 2019.

 

[Nate R]

Well the one I'm picking up tomorrow was purchased in August 2019 so hopefully that was before they made this change.

Yeah you will be good for sure

 

[specialkayme]

It is a one piece tri clamp gauge and no you can not swap it out for a thermowell.

That seems ridiculous to me. Their thermowell sells for $25 (TC Thermowell | Spike Brewing), while their thermometer sells for $30 (1.5" Tri-Clamp Brew Thermometer | Spike Brewing). They can't sub the two out and keep the price the same (saving them $5)? Instead you have to give a little dig, charge an extra $25 so I have a thermometer collecting dust?

 

[eric19312]

It's goofy I wonder why they did it. Actually it is pretty easy to see. They have the thermometer they used to include with the thermowell on the site for $25. So the two pieces together (with $25 for the thermowell) add up to a $50 accessory while the new TC thermometer is a $30 accessory. Spike's costs are probably reflected in their pricing so this reduced their cost to build.

 

[Nagorg]

That seems ridiculous to me. Their thermowell sells for $25 (TC Thermowell | Spike Brewing), while their thermometer sells for $30 (1.5" Tri-Clamp Brew Thermometer | Spike Brewing). They can't sub the two out and keep the price the same (saving them $5)? Instead you have to give a little dig, charge an extra $25 so I have a thermometer collecting dust?

My thoughts exactly... I'm okay with $25 if I have to spend it but hate that I'll be getting zero use out of the thermometer. They should make things like this an option IMO. There would be a lot of customer value in this.

I'd much rather be able to swap the TC thermometer for a TC thermowell and use that $25.00 for the other accessories I'll need. Hopefully they will read this thread and listen to the feedback.

 

[Jag75]

So... I'm thinking about a CF5. I'm taking it that folks are generally happy with them?

Very happy . I will probably get another . Maybe the 10

 

[Nagorg]

Dang.. My $550.00 CF5 is up to $749.00 with all accessories I'd want. (Thermowell, Sight Glass, Leg Extensions, Racking Arm, Extra 2" TC clamp and gaskets)

Maybe I'll shop the accessories a bit before pulling the trigger.

 

[Nate R]

Dang.. My $550.00 CF5 is up to $749.00 with all accessories I'd want. (Thermowell, Sight Glass, Leg Extensions, Racking Arm, Extra 2" TC clamp and gaskets)

Maybe I'll shop the accessories a bit before pulling the trigger.

I hate to promote not supporting local businesses... but... the amazon has many pieces for half off. You DO need the Spike racking arm tho, i think. But sight glass, gaskets, clamps, etc... those are el cheapo for basically same product on amazon.

 

[Nate R]

Very happy . I will probably get another . Maybe the 10

Sell me your cf5, get two 10's!!!

 

[mongoose33]

My thoughts exactly... I'm okay with $25 if I have to spend it but hate that I'll be getting zero use out of the thermometer. They should make things like this an option IMO. There would be a lot of customer value in this.

I'd much rather be able to swap the TC thermometer for a TC thermowell and use that $25.00 for the other accessories I'll need. Hopefully they will read this thread and listen to the feedback.

When I bought mine it came with the thermometer/themowell combination. When I added the temp control kit, the thermometer came out and sat in my parts box for a while until I bought a counterflow chiller. I needed a thermometer to read the temp of the wort coming out of the CFC, so there it went.

Now that I think about it, the original Spike thermometer from the CF10 went on my Mash Tun. The above is the one that was on my kettle. When I went to electric brewing the one above came off the kettle in favor of a thermocouple temp probe.

 

[CodeSection]

When I bought mine it came with the thermometer/themowell combination. When I added the temp control kit, the thermometer came out and sat in my parts box for a while until I bought a counterflow chiller. I needed a thermometer to read the temp of the wort coming out of the CFC, so there it went.

View attachment 680592

Now that I think about it, the original Spike thermometer from the CF10 went on my Mash Tun. The above is the one that was on my kettle. When I went to electric brewing the one above came off the kettle in favor of a thermocouple temp probe.

View attachment 680597

Thanks for the pictures! My thermometer from Spkie has stayed in the box never used as well. Now, I can adapt mine to my CFC as well!

 

[eric19312]

Haha my Spike thermometer is on my HLT now. I used to check it with my CDN probe and not worry too much about exact temp there but it's elevated and the thermometer is nice to have.

 

[eric19312]

I hate to promote not supporting local businesses... but... the amazon has many pieces for half off. You DO need the Spike racking arm tho, i think. But sight glass, gaskets, clamps, etc... those are el cheapo for basically same product on amazon.

Also you can get better gaskets than the silicon gaskets Spike sells. Way back in this tread there was a lot of discussion and got me to switch to the Buna-N gaskets ... was too cheap to go Viton and believe these are close. Also you do want a teflon gasket for that racking arm. Don't know why Spike and others sell so much silicon without offering others. If they read this thread and think silicon is really best choice I'd love to see a FAQ explaining rationale.

 

[CodeSection]

....Buna-N gaskets

I'm not familiar with the Buna-N gaskets. Other than the teflon gasket I bought from MB for the racking arm, I replaced all my gaskets with EPDM gaskets from Glacier Tanks (40MPE-150, 40MPE-200, 40MPE-300, 40MPE-400 and 40MPE-800).

 

[Tom R]

This Brewers Hardware page explains the pros and cons of the various gasket materials. I'll eventually replace my aging silicone ones with EPDM.
Tri Clover Compatible Gaskets from Brewers Hardware