Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[eric19312]

I'm absolutely THRILLED with the CF-10 and have the first batch nearing the end of fermentation (holiday ale).
It fits nicely inside my fermentation fridge, but there is no top headroom to utilize the 4" port.
Not a problem though. I will fill from the chiller into the racking port with a QD. (Thanks Mongoose)
I'll aerate from the carb stone, and I'll pitch yeast up through the bottom port with the Norcal Yeast Brink (another handy tool I'm thrilled with, which doubles as a no oxygen dry hopper).
I'm adding some sweet orange peel and crushed cinnamon stick at the end of this fermentation using the yeast brink which will be an oxygen free addition.

View attachment 652940

Please let us know how you like dry hopping with this unit. I’m leaning towards something like mongoose,s solution but would like to know how well this works first.

 

[CodeSection]

....I'm adding some sweet orange peel and crushed cinnamon stick at the end of this fermentation using the yeast brink which will be an oxygen free addition.

Please let me know how adding the spices this way turns out. As you are aware, my concern is that the spices will not fully be mixed in the beer. Thus, if one was to bottle, some bottles may have a stronger spice dosage as opposed to others.

Are you kegging or bottling? Or both?

 

[SEndorf]

Please let me know how adding the spices this way turns out. As you are aware, my concern is that the spices will not fully be mixed in the beer. Thus, if one was to bottle, some bottles may have a stronger spice dosage as opposed to others.

Are you kegging or bottling? Or both?

Always to keg.
I had the same concern about the spices not fully integrating into the wort.
I found that when pushing the mixture up with CO2, the wort was slightly agitated a bit. (Not a concern since no oxygen ingress)
This method actually seems more effective than traditionally opening up the top and simply dropping them in.
The only down side is that the remaining trub needs to settle down again.

 

[SEndorf]

Please let us know how you like dry hopping with this unit. I’m leaning towards something like mongoose,s solution but would like to know how well this works first.

I was tracking Mongoose's "sight glass dry hopper" which is brilliant.
But I have no room on top for it.
I haven't dry hopped with the brink yet (Only one non-IPA batch under my belt so far), but these spices were kinda chunky and crushed cinnamon stick doesn't soften with hydration like hops do. With that it performed flawlessly so hydrated hop pellets won't be any problem at all.

Norcal introduced a reinforced sight glass version which I didn't purchase. It is more expensive and holds less volume than the quart jar option.
Some complained that the mason jar wasn't sturdy enough to withstand pressure, even though they tested it in a controlled environment and found it could take 30+ PSI before failing.
I had set mine to 5 PSI which was too much.

If you have top clearance, Mongoose's dry hopper is an easy and less expensive process.
The brink equally gets the dry hop job done, and its advantage is harvesting and re-using yeast is an easier process.

 

[Brooothru]

It looks like the only difference between the cf5 and cf10 that would impact that would be the "Racking Arm Low Vol (gal)" variable, which cf5 shows 0.1 gal and cf10 shows 0.3 gal. I'm assuming that isn't counting any 90 degree elbow, which makes sense.

The other variables are dump volumes, which should be fairly close between 5 and 10 gallon batches.

So if 10.9 gal goes into a cf10 to produce 10 gallons of beer, 5.7 (ish) gal should go into a cf5 to produce 5 gallons of beer. Give or take 0.1 gal.

I'm strongly considering a cf5 over a cf10, because I have absolutely zero desire to do 10 gallon batches. Even if the cf10 only costs $100 more, if I'm never going to use more than 5 gal capacity, why spend the cash? But I was concerned about how much you'd need to fill the cf5 up with wort, because if I had to fill it to 6.5 gal mark to get 5 gal of beer, the krausen would make cleaning above the top gasket a nightmare long term and the cf10 would make more sense. But it seems like that's a dumb concern now. Even if I have to put 6 gal in the fermenter, I should be fine for 95% of batches with a 7 gal capacity (except for that occasional explosive yeast batch).

So what is everyone using for yeast dumps? A bucket seems messy and unnecessary. A sightglass seems like it would introduce too much oxygen. Nor Cal's yeast brink (https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri-Clover-Quart-Canning-Jar-Yeast-Brink-Kit.html) seems interesting, but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be putting a mason jar under some sort of pressure. Thoughts?

I've got both the yeast harvester and the 3" diameter "sight glass" yeast brink. I had used the harvester with a variety of wide mouth jars (4 oz to 64 oz) without any issues but never exceeded ~2 psi. Still, I was dubious of pressurizing a glass jar.

When I started getting into LoDO and brewing under pressure I really started getting uncomfortable and got in touch with Jay (Jaybird) about any issues with glass jars failing, and he said the point of failure was the jar seal failing before the jar itself. I've done a fair amount of canning and canning under pressure (at 1 bar or more 《14.4 psi》) and never had a jar fail, but that is an externally applied pressure, not one from the inside pushing out.

Anyway, if a jar slipped off the yeast harvester under pressure the end result would be the same: jar and yeast would spread everywhere, the glass would shatter, and an uncontrolled cascade of beer would gush from the dump valve. That's why I got the yeast brink. Not cheap, but great insurance.

The added benefit (besides safety) is the ability to pitch yeast and dry hop under pressure without introducing oxygen. Check out the video on their website. It works (flawlessly) just exactly as they say, and I can (and do) perform multiple trub dumps as well as roust the yeast oxygen free and under pressure.

I still use the yeast harvester to, well, harvest yeast! After the beer is ready for packaging I do a pressure transfer to a keg, then reduce pressure on the FV to ~2 psi, attach the harvester and start filling jars. I can usually get two quarts jars filled with very clean, dense slurry under a 2" cap of leftover beer, filled directly into a sanitized container oxygen free..

Brooo Brother

 

[SEndorf]

I should title this, "Trub Dump 101"
As I'm new to conical, I'm curious about the trub dump / yeast harvesting.
I've harvested and washed yeast many times from my other fermenters (which is a slow and messy process) and collected much more yeast than I just did.

As your yeast/trub "goo" slowly oozes its way down the conical, out the bottom port, and finally into your harvesting vessel, the "goo" is competing with the free flowing wort.
It's sort of like the race between the turtle and the hare. The wort will fill your collection vessel long before the yeast finally oozes its way out.
How do y'all efficiently get that crap outta there without losing beer?

 

[Stand]

I also drink alot out of the sample port. I've been considering adding a tap to freezer for that reason. Cheers

I've thought about doing this and backed away every time, but it's going to happen eventually.

I kegged off my CF10 today, and I only had enough to fill one keg. Must be a leak.

 

[specialkayme]

Some complained that the mason jar wasn't sturdy enough to withstand pressure, even though they tested it in a controlled environment and found it could take 30+ PSI before failing.

What test are you referring to, and can you share it?

While I'm sure some jars can withstand 30+ PSI before failing, I doubt ALL jars can. Defects occur. I don't know how often. Although I imagine problems are more likely to occur in shipping. A slight crack in a jar and you have a failure, followed by a bomb. Not all cracks are likely to show on visual inspection.

Drew Beachum openly discusses how he's had mason jars of yeast slury explode in his fridge, forcing him to extract shards of glass from the inside walls of the fridge. If you're standing nearby when it happens, you could easily lose an eye, or sever an artery. Seems risky.

In any event, I'm more worried about my failures than the jar. If I attach CO2 to the jar to push hops up, and I forget to change the regulator pressure from a previous use, or if my 3 year old daughter was playing with the regulator so it's outputting massive pressure, some major damage could occur.

But maybe it's just my mind spinning in circles, coming up with unnecessary risky situations.

 

[NeoBrew]

In any event, I'm more worried about my failures than the jar. If I attach CO2 to the jar to push hops up, and I forget to change the regulator pressure from a previous use, or if my 3 year old daughter was playing with the regulator so it's outputting massive pressure, some major damage could occur.

If your 3 year old is playing with high pressure tanks you have some other safety concerns to attend to. Obviously, flying glass is not good for 3 year olds either.

Also, don't let her near your conical. She has to get her own toys!

 

[Nate R]

What I do is set the spunding valve at a value just slightly higher than the presumed PSI of the beer. So if the beer is 11psi, I'll set the spunding valve at 12psi (so the pressure keeps the CO2 from coming out of solution), and I'll apply maybe 14 psi to the fermenter to push it out.

There probably isn't a lot of CO2 in the beer, but there will be some. Agitating that beer, as in transferring it, can cause some of that CO2 to come out of solution. You can test this by pouring some into a glass and seeing if you can create foaming.

I just have to add this: someone here on HBT--who I'd credit if I could remember who it was --once described the self-carbonation method of sealing a fermenter before complete attenuation as analogous to having billions of tiny carb stones all working to carbonate the beer. I found that an interesting description.

Yeah so this went about as smooth as possible tonight. I was missing having the transfer under pressure. No more!!!
Thanks for the help on this!!

 

[SEndorf]

What test are you referring to, and can you share it?

While I'm sure some jars can withstand 30+ PSI before failing, I doubt ALL jars can. Defects occur. I don't know how often. Although I imagine problems are more likely to occur in shipping. A slight crack in a jar and you have a failure, followed by a bomb. Not all cracks are likely to show on visual inspection.

Drew Beachum openly discusses how he's had mason jars of yeast slury explode in his fridge, forcing him to extract shards of glass from the inside walls of the fridge. If you're standing nearby when it happens, you could easily lose an eye, or sever an artery. Seems risky.

In any event, I'm more worried about my failures than the jar. If I attach CO2 to the jar to push hops up, and I forget to change the regulator pressure from a previous use, or if my 3 year old daughter was playing with the regulator so it's outputting massive pressure, some major damage could occur.

But maybe it's just my mind spinning in circles, coming up with unnecessary risky situations.

This is from Jay at Norcal:
_____
As for the pressure. Here are the results form the testing I have personally done
I am going to start off by saying I am in NO way suggesting you do this or that the jar will handle this as its all going to be hinged on how tight you put on your lid and you do need to use caution anytime you handle glass. I have personally under a closed and bomb proofed environment added 25 PSI to a 1/2 gallon mason jar and held that for 10 min before I decided to just see how far it would go and what the weak link is. I slowly added PSI until it blew. I was between 27 and 32 PSI before the ring gave way and blew the top off every time. The 1/2 gallon glass mason jar was still 100% in tact. This test was preformed 5 x on the same jar with a new ring every time to insure the system was stable.

I have been designing, building and using mason jars for YEARS in my system and have yet to have 1 fail. That is not to say they can't. It's just not something I personally worry about and feel very confident using them.
______
The amount of pressure utilized in this system just isn't enough to cause me concern.
Not sure who Drew Beachum is, but jar explosions from stored yeast are a different scenario and are 100% preventable.
I understand your concern about "operator error", but at some point we need to step back and take a look at our entire processes with this hobby and evaluate all the potential risks and mitigate them. For me, these include two basic things - 1) There's no reason for the grandkids to be anywhere near the brew equipment. 2) When enjoying the fruits of my efforts I don't do ANYTHING in the brewery other than pull those tap handles.

 

[SEndorf]

I should title this, "Trub Dump 101"
As I'm new to conical, I'm curious about the trub dump / yeast harvesting.
I've harvested and washed yeast many times from my other fermenters (which is a slow and messy process) and collected much more yeast than I just did.

As your yeast/trub "goo" slowly oozes its way down the conical, out the bottom port, and finally into your harvesting vessel, the "goo" is competing with the free flowing wort.
It's sort of like the race between the turtle and the hare. The wort will fill your collection vessel long before the yeast finally oozes its way out.
How do y'all efficiently get that crap outta there without losing beer?

I'm quoting and responding to my own post in the event there are other conical noobers out there reading this that may in some way benefit.

I made two dumb mistakes when attempting to harvest yeast from a conical for the first time:

1. Cold crash first
2. Crack the valve slowly

Here is some additional information from Spike:

In the cone, the yeast will have formed strata throughout fermentation. Open the bottom valve slowly and keep it cracked to avoid beer blowing through the yeast. Dark, bitter trub and early settling yeast will come out first. This yeast exhibits poor attenuation and may have also lost its ability to metabolize maltose. Discard this. The yeast you want to keep will come out next. This is normally a lighter, tan color with low bitterness and a tart taste. After you have collected this prime yeast, continue to let out the remaining poor flocculating yeast and dead yeast. It is important to continue to let out sedimented yeast up until you transfer your beer because autolysis can raise pH and provide a breeding ground for bacteria.

• 
  
• First step is to cold crash the beer for at least 24 hours and apply a pressure to your conical of about 5 PSI using the gas manifold.
  
• Simply attach the sight glass to the bottom port.
  
• Open the the bottom port's butterfly valve just enough that yeast flows into the sight glass. Note the color and consistency of what fills the sight glass.
  
• If dark with particulate matter, this is residual trub and needs to be discarded. Close the valve and remove the sight glass and dump down the drain. (Note: might be hard to distinguish on darker beers)
  
• If light, thick and opaque, this is healthy yeast and can be kept for harvest! Close the valve, remove the sight glass and save!
  
• Continue harvesting yeast, by the sight glass full, till the yeast cake starts to thin and look frothy, at this point you're pulling beer.
  
  Some have exchanged the 2" TC end cap at the end of their sight glass for another butterfly valve. This makes harvest even easier! You can see if you are pulling healthy yeast ahead of the valve and open/close the valve to pull all the yeast in one sitting.

 

[specialkayme]

This is from Jay at Norcal:
_____
As for the pressure. Here are the results form the testing I have personally done
I am going to start off by saying I am in NO way suggesting you do this or that the jar will handle this as its all going to be hinged on how tight you put on your lid and you do need to use caution anytime you handle glass. I have personally under a closed and bomb proofed environment added 25 PSI to a 1/2 gallon mason jar and held that for 10 min before I decided to just see how far it would go and what the weak link is. I slowly added PSI until it blew. I was between 27 and 32 PSI before the ring gave way and blew the top off every time. The 1/2 gallon glass mason jar was still 100% in tact. This test was preformed 5 x on the same jar with a new ring every time to insure the system was stable.

I have been designing, building and using mason jars for YEARS in my system and have yet to have 1 fail. That is not to say they can't. It's just not something I personally worry about and feel very confident using them.
______

Thanks for sharing @SEndorf

Not sure who Drew Beachum is, but jar explosions from stored yeast are a different scenario and are 100% preventable.

My point was more that every other mason jar "bomb" that I've heard of did NOT result in a repeatable failure at the ring. The failure resulted in a shrapnel of glass flying everywhere. Part of the difference may depend on whether there was liquid in the jar or not. I don't know. There also may be significant failure differences between half gallon and quart mason jars. I don't know that either.

I use mason jars frequently in a number of applications, although not under pressure anywhere near what Jay has experience with. But I've consistently seen failures occur at the bottom, the side, as well as at the rim. YMMV

I understand your concern about "operator error", but at some point we need to step back and take a look at our entire processes with this hobby and evaluate all the potential risks and mitigate them.

I agree wholeheartedly. For me, spending $80 to upgrade from a mason jar to a sight-glass is an easy and affordable mitigation effort. Not everyone falls in that boat though.

For me, these include two basic things - 1) There's no reason for the grandkids to be anywhere near the brew equipment. 2) When enjoying the fruits of my efforts I don't do ANYTHING in the brewery other than pull those tap handles.

For me, I differ in both of those aspects. I have zero desire to label brew equipment as "adults only." I believe it only attracts more interest, without giving the necessary education and instruction on how to be safe. Much like cooking in general, children need to be taught what is dangerous (hot oil), what is hot (stove top), and what can hurt them, but include them in the activity. That's my take though, yours doesn't have to line up with mine.

I also enjoy having a homebrew or two while I make my next batch. Moderation is key. But it also causes me to build in extra protections that others may not find necessary.

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

Santa Claus came early and temp control is happening! Spike Temp control kit (with heater option) and Penguin 1/3 HP chiller.

 

[Tom R]

I see lagers in your future!

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

Ready for action. Doing a "dry run" with some Star-San. Went from 89F to 60F in about 90 minutes. Then from 60F to 50F in about 45 minutes but I wasn't watching time closely on that one. Chiller is set at 28F. This is in an indoor area, so ambient temp is about 70F

 

[mongoose33]

Ready for action. Doing a "dry run" with some Star-San. Went from 89F to 60F in about 90 minutes. Then from 60F to 50F in about 45 minutes but I wasn't watching time closely on that one. Chiller is set at 28F. This is in an indoor area, so ambient temp is about 70F
View attachment 653303

You may do better with beer; wouldn't surprise me if you're forming beersicle (er....star-san-sicle) on the chilling coil...and that would reduce the effectiveness somewhat.

I really like the setup with that cart!

 

[Nate R]

Ready for action. Doing a "dry run" with some Star-San. Went from 89F to 60F in about 90 minutes. Then from 60F to 50F in about 45 minutes but I wasn't watching time closely on that one. Chiller is set at 28F. This is in an indoor area, so ambient temp is about 70F
View attachment 653303

Sweet!!!!
+1 to mongoose above. The more boozy the beer the more colder (grammer? Lol) you can go!!

Also- i would suggest getting in the habit of attaching the pessure kit and adding at least 5 psi before you cold crash. Otherwise you have massive suck back into your cf. Or if it is sealed you may damage it.

 

[KyleF318is]

Anyone have an idea of what Spike usually does for Black Friday? Dragging my feet a little and feel like this coming week could do the trick.

Cheers! [emoji482]

 

[eric19312]

Anyone have an idea of what Spike usually does for Black Friday? Dragging my feet a little and feel like this coming week could do the trick.

Cheers! [emoji482]

You waited this long... isn’t as well find out

 

[CodeSection]

I pour fully carbed beer thru the sample port directly without any need for a coil. Does the ss unitank use the same little ball valve sample port the ss conicals use? If so I can see it being a issue compared to my cf15 with a real sample port. Cheers

I stumbled onto this post in another thread. Next week will be the first time I use Spike's carb stone on my CF10. I planned on carbing at 36F at 10 psi to roughly get 2.5 (2.47 per chart) CO2 volume.

Do you believe at that CO2 level that it is still possible to pour through Spike's sample valve and not get foaming? I was thinking I would need to buy another sample valve along with a sampling "pigtail" coil to avoid foaming issues.

All I will be trying to do is to determine if the carbonation level is at my desired level prior to bottling...

 

[Vale71]

In my experience with standard sampling valves you'll get 99% foam at carbonation levels much lower than 2.5 vols.
The only way to actually pour more liquid than foam is either with a sampling coil or by attaching an actual beer faucet with flow control.

 

[Tom R]

In my experience with standard sampling valves you'll get 99% foam at carbonation levels much lower than 2.5 vols.

That's interesting. I use the sampling port on my Brewers Hardware conical to sample carbonated beer (usually 10-12PSI @ 33-35F), and have no foaming issues.

The valve looks similar, no coil. I can't explain why it works when the SB doesn't.

 

[mongoose33]

That's interesting. I use the sampling port on my Brewers Hardware conical to sample carbonated beer (usually 10-12PSI @ 33-35F), and have no foaming issues.

The valve looks similar, no coil. I can't explain why it works when the SB doesn't.

You pouring very slowly? That might mimic a flow-control faucet.

 

[Nate R]

I stumbled onto this post in another thread. Next week will be the first time I use Spike's carb stone on my CF10. I planned on carbing at 36F at 10 psi to roughly get 2.5 (2.47 per chart) CO2 volume.

Do you believe at that CO2 level that it is still possible to pour through Spike's sample valve and not get foaming? I was thinking I would need to buy another sample valve along with a sampling "pigtail" coil to avoid foaming issues.

All I will be trying to do is to determine if the carbonation level is at my desired level prior to bottling...

I don;t have much issue pulling a sample from the valve. For me, the biggest issue with the sample port (most sample ports?) is the "gunk" that can accumulate in the port during primary. Using the carbed beer i feel "blows" out the rest of this gunk. Then you are pulling straight beer. How you position the nozzle plays a role, and angle of the vessel you are pouring into matters- I think it is just like a beer faucet when pulling a pint. An experienced person pulls a "perfect pint" but an experienced might pull 80% foam.

Honestly- (and who else said this above?)- the biggest issue with a good batch is if it is cold & carbed, sometimes the sample valve becomes a serving valve.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I stumbled onto this post in another thread. Next week will be the first time I use Spike's carb stone on my CF10. I planned on carbing at 36F at 10 psi to roughly get 2.5 (2.47 per chart) CO2 volume.

Do you believe at that CO2 level that it is still possible to pour through Spike's sample valve and not get foaming? I was thinking I would need to buy another sample valve along with a sampling "pigtail" coil to avoid foaming issues.

All I will be trying to do is to determine if the carbonation level is at my desired level prior to bottling...

It works fine for myself. Obviously you need to pour slowly though. Cheers

 

[Tom R]

You pouring very slowly? That might mimic a flow-control faucet.

Yes, about half as fast as from a faucet.

Honestly- (and who else said this above?)- the biggest issue with a good batch is if it is cold & carbed, sometimes the sample valve becomes a serving valve.

I've been known to serve most of a batch from the sample valve if I don't have an empty keg available...

 

[awoitte]

Not related strictly to Spike conicals, but is the main reason why so many people go the glycol route (as opposed to storing in an upright freezer) space?

All things considered (more setup/labor, materials, weak points that have potential to cause problems) why aren't people connecting a basic temp control setup and settings it/forgetting it in a freezer.

Am I missing something?

 

[NeoBrew]

Not related strictly to Spike conicals, but is the main reason why so many people go the glycol route (as opposed to storing in an upright freezer) space?

All things considered (more setup/labor, materials, weak points that have potential to cause problems) why aren't people connecting a basic temp control setup and settings it/forgetting it in a freezer.

Am I missing something?

I certainly can’t answer for others, but I’m just about to switch from a cobbled together glycol system to an upright refrigerator.

I believe the advantage of glycol system is the versatility of running multiple conicals at different temps, small space use, and cool factor because pros use glycol.

I have a pretty clear understanding that I can live with the limitation of fermenting only one batch at a time. I’m tired of fiddling with the thing all the time. (My setup uses my old fermentation chest freezer to cool the glycol and a pond pump to circulate, so it is not as effective or trouble free as a purpose built chiller.) I also miss being able to crash below 40 degrees. I’m also not a fan of the condensation I get when trying to crash cool.

My goal is to pick up a small glass front commercial refrigeration unit so I can maintain some of the bling factor. Because let’s face it, coolness matters [emoji41]

 

[CodeSection]

Not related strictly to Spike conicals, but is the main reason why so many people go the glycol route (as opposed to storing in an upright freezer) space?

All things considered (more setup/labor, materials, weak points that have potential to cause problems) why aren't people connecting a basic temp control setup and settings it/forgetting it in a freezer.

Am I missing something?

For me, I simply do not have the space for a freezer. I would need to remove a pool table and card/poker table from my game room. Plus, I definitely do not want to fight with rolling a somewhat top heavy CF10 with roughly 10.93 gallons and weighing roughly 125 lbs including the weight of the CF10 onto a ramp and into a freezer.

A separate glycol unit allows me to add another CF10 or bright tank in the future, whereas I could not add them in a freezer.

 

[CodeSection]

I ended up buying https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/sample-valve-1-5-tc-knob?_pos=1&_sid=bc8ac01a8&_ss=r and https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/pig-tail?_pos=1&_sid=4cdba66c1&_ss=r.

I guess I could have made up a 10' length of tubing with a cobra tap to try out. But looking at the future, I didn't want to deal with that and the two items above will accomplish the same thing in a cleaner, less space environment. I will be able to use them on my CF10 or on the bright tank I have been considering buying.

Thanks for the comments!

 

[awoitte]

For me, I simply do not have the space for a freezer. I would need to remove a pool table and card/poker table from my game room. Plus, I definitely do not want to fight with rolling a somewhat top heavy CF10 with roughly 10.93 gallons and weighing roughly 125 lbs including the weight of the CF10 onto a ramp and into a freezer.

A separate glycol unit allows me to add another CF10 or bright tank in the future, whereas I could not add them in a freezer.

Ok, weighing all my factors, room isn't as much of an issue for me, but I like the idea of being able to chill multiple at one time. Also, I already have a chest freezer (used previously for carboys), which I could utilize for a glycol setup if I went that route.

If I leverage my chest freezer for a glycol setup is it possible to get liquid in the cf's down to the near freezing levels? I'm reading through all these comments (currently on page 8), seems like a lot of people are talking about only being able to get down to about 38-40'F..

Ultimately I'd want to be able to cold crash one conical while I'm lagering in another.

 

[CodeSection]

...I'm reading through all these comments (currently on page 8), seems like a lot of people are talking about only being able to get down to about 38-40'F...

I easily get to 36F and do not have the issues others may be facing. Ambient temperature along with other factors come into play.

To name a couple, I'm inside in a temerature controlled game room while others are in their garage or workshop in their garage, and I'm using an IceMaster 100 with a larger 8 gallon reservoir while others are using a Penguin with a smaller 1.25 gallon reservoir.

 

[Nate R]

Ok, weighing all my factors, room isn't as much of an issue for me, but I like the idea of being able to chill multiple at one time. Also, I already have a chest freezer (used previously for carboys), which I could utilize for a glycol setup if I went that route.

If I leverage my chest freezer for a glycol setup is it possible to get liquid in the cf's down to the near freezing levels? I'm reading through all these comments (currently on page 8), seems like a lot of people are talking about only being able to get down to about 38-40'F..

Ultimately I'd want to be able to cold crash one conical while I'm lagering in another.

If I understand, you want to use a chest freezer to cool the glycol?
I would say don;t bother- there are just too many threads on here about how it is not as effective as a DIY AC unit (or buy one). Trust me- I tried to find a cheap answer, I could not.

if you want two different temps at same time, you will need 2 separate freezer/fridges OR a glycol system. Simple as that.

For me, I feel *(This has been debated above at length) that I get a little more precise and for me easier control with a temp system vs. a freezer (I have done both). YMMV.

But if you foresee two batches at the same time at different temps, you pretty much just decided a glycol system imo.

 

[mongoose33]

Not related strictly to Spike conicals, but is the main reason why so many people go the glycol route (as opposed to storing in an upright freezer) space?

All things considered (more setup/labor, materials, weak points that have potential to cause problems) why aren't people connecting a basic temp control setup and settings it/forgetting it in a freezer.

Am I missing something?

Some of it's space, some of it is access to a large enough freezer to accommodate a CF10--and once you go that large, are you really saving any money?

I wish I had that sort of arrangement, i.e., a freezer or refrigerator. It would allow me to crash to 32 if I wanted, be more straightforward.

 

[awoitte]

If I understand, you want to use a chest freezer to cool the glycol?
I would say don;t bother- there are just too many threads on here about how it is not as effective as a DIY AC unit (or buy one). Trust me- I tried to find a cheap answer, I could not.

But if you foresee two batches at the same time at different temps, you pretty much just decided a glycol system imo.

I'm new to the whole idea of glycol (a lot has been just brief skimming while mostly staying on top of this thread). Can you explain why a chest freezer won't accommodate a glycol setup?

I'm probably wrong somewhere, but it sounds like there is a glycol/water mixture brought down to below freezing temps by circulating in another bath of mixture being cooled in the chest freezer, then moves to another coil in the cf, similar to a HERMS setup but for cooling...?

Am I totally off? JW where the issue lies whether it be the chest freezer can't accommodate enough cooling power, etc.

 

[Nate R]

I'm new to the whole idea of glycol (a lot has been just brief skimming while mostly staying on top of this thread). Can you explain why a chest freezer won't accommodate a glycol setup?

I'm probably wrong somewhere, but it sounds like there is a glycol/water mixture brought down to below freezing temps by circulating in another bath of mixture being cooled in the chest freezer, then moves to another coil in the cf, similar to a HERMS setup but for cooling...?

Am I totally off? JW where the issue lies whether it be the chest freezer can't accommodate enough cooling power, etc.

Look up under the DIY section here for some tips.
I am NOT a sciencey guy, so here it is my layman's terms (and I will be corrected I am sure!)

Basically- you need to remove the heat from the water/glycol mix. Air is not enough to do this- i.e. simply leaving the bath in a freezer there is not enough contact. You need the copper coils of an AC unit (with super duper really really cold coolant running through them) INSIDE the water/glycol bath to exchange the heat.

I have heard guys have gotten it pretty cold tho- like say 40-ish? But IMO the idea is to get as close to 36 as possible to crash.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Not related strictly to Spike conicals, but is the main reason why so many people go the glycol route (as opposed to storing in an upright freezer) space?

All things considered (more setup/labor, materials, weak points that have potential to cause problems) why aren't people connecting a basic temp control setup and settings it/forgetting it in a freezer.

Am I missing something?

Bling mostly. Can't show off your shiny new conical when it's in a freezer. I also feel when people are starting out they assume that spending $1,000 on a glycol system versus $50 on a used freezer that there going to get better performance not realizing until it's too late that it's the other way around. Cheers

 

[Darth_Duane]

Not related strictly to Spike conicals, but is the main reason why so many people go the glycol route (as opposed to storing in an upright freezer) space?

All things considered (more setup/labor, materials, weak points that have potential to cause problems) why aren't people connecting a basic temp control setup and settings it/forgetting it in a freezer.

Am I missing something?

I already had a freezer top fridge that I modified to use as my ferm chamber/kegerator and i wouldn't change it out for a glycol chiller. All i do is set it and forget it and I can achieve any temperature i want with ease. The only real down side is it does hide the pretty stainless, but it doesn't bother me. You could always get a glass front freezer if that bothers you.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm new to the whole idea of glycol (a lot has been just brief skimming while mostly staying on top of this thread). Can you explain why a chest freezer won't accommodate a glycol setup?

I'm probably wrong somewhere, but it sounds like there is a glycol/water mixture brought down to below freezing temps by circulating in another bath of mixture being cooled in the chest freezer, then moves to another coil in the cf, similar to a HERMS setup but for cooling...?

Am I totally off? JW where the issue lies whether it be the chest freezer can't accommodate enough cooling power, etc.

It actually could do ok if you used a heat sink in the glycol bath, and a fan to circulate the air. @Nater pretty much nailed it--generally air isn't enough to chill the glycol mix enough, at least not very fast.

I actually did a glycol chill bath in the upper freezer compartment of my big ferm chamber. It actually worked fairly well, and if it could work in there, it would work in a chest freezer, in fact, probably better. I'm attaching a pic showing how I tried to use a copper tube and an aluminum (DIY) heat sink to enhance heat transfer to the air. It worked, after a fashion.

If I had to do it over again, i'd probably look into a chest freezer. Might not have worked--I'm very space-limited--but it's far cheaper.