Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[matt_m]

That is the valve that came with my SsBrewtech conical. It works ok, but isn’t great. It’s hard to clean to a sanitary condition without fully disassembling it every time.

But takes 10s to disassemble by spinning off one 1/2" nut and only a few more to assemble because you need to add a little keg lube. My only complaint is it drips after use but I've been flushing with a lab squirt bottle so what drips is cheap vodka.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Yeah I bet it comes apart quicker then the spike one, I swear those threads are a mile long. Either way I have no problem disassembling to clean. Just part of the routine.

 

[WesBrew]

the push in pick up tube in the sample port

 

[eric19312]

the push in pick up tube in the sample port

Thanks for posting. Looks like it will work just fine. However that picture has me hesitating. It appears there is a gap between the tube and the piston that would be impossible to clean. Is that the case? For a little more $ I'm thinking this might be better way to go...

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15diptubewhirlpool.htm

 

[WesBrew]

Yeah i see what you're saying. i was trying to avoid adding any more metal to the already front-heavy vessel. it might not work.

 

[WesBrew]

Thanks for posting. Looks like it will work just fine. However that picture has me hesitating. It appears there is a gap between the tube and the piston that would be impossible to clean. Is that the case? For a little more $ I'm thinking this might be better way to go...

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15diptubewhirlpool.htm

can't really see the union of the tube/tc. i wonder if it has the same gap? i'm looking at the Brewbuilt x1 TC with the clamp at morebeer. Could add a sack of malt for free shipping.

 

[Tom R]

It appears there is a gap between the tube and the piston that would be impossible to clean. Is

Worst case, after a PBW soak and rinse you could put it in a pressure-cooker or oven to kill the nasties. Kind of a pain, though.

Maybe on the next-gen Spike will consider moving the sampling port above the cone.

 

[eric19312]

Worst case, after a PBW soak and rinse you could put it in a pressure-cooker or oven to kill the nasties. Kind of a pain, though.

Maybe on the next-gen Spike will consider moving the sampling port above the cone.

I think that one is designed for use inside kettles. @Bobby_M doesn't mention using it in tanks in the description. I like the design of the TC dip tube but looks like it might have a small but cleanable groove where the tube meets the ferrule. At least it is described as being for use in tanks.

 

[deuc224]

Damn is everyone really using o2 in beer that much? I only really break mine out for high ABV beers, the rest go off without a hitch, but for my beer this week, im gonna have to break it out, westy 12 clone attempt. Also one 20lb tank should literally last you a lifetime, my regulator goes down to 1/4 lpm so i do that for 4 minutes to really give the wort time to absorb it instead of just seeing it bubble out the top.

 

[WesBrew]

I tried to get through this thread but its super long-
- Im doing a neipa with lots of dry hops soon for my first run in the conical . I need an order of operations so to speak, particularly where im harvesting yeast.

 

[eric19312]

I tried to get through this thread but its super long-
- Im doing a neipa with lots of dry hops soon for my first run in the conical . I need an order of operations so to speak, particularly where im harvesting yeast.

sorry about length of the thread

I think best practices is sort of a misnomer...we have seen on here there are lots of different ways to use the CF conicals. You mention you are making a NEIPA so I'm not sure what you consider important for that style (there are also many different ways people make NEIPAs).

Are you going to dry hop at peak of primary fermentation? If so are you ok harvesting yeast with lots of dry hop material in it?

Are you planning to harvest your yeast from the cone or are you planning to top crop? A lot of people prefer to top crop English and Kveik yeasts that are frequently used when making NEIPAs.

Do you have ability to protect the beer from O2 while adding your dry hops? (answer might drive your thoughts on adding your dry hops during primary fermentation rather than waiting for it to end)

I make west coast IPAs based on grist and water profile but with the yeast I am using (Verdant) and the dry hop quantity I hit them with they all come out pretty hazy these days. Here is what I am doing:

1. Pitch the yeast and oxygenate, hook up blow off tube
2. When fermentation is close to done I swap the blow off tube for the pressure manifold with a spunding valve set to about 5 PSI
3. A few days later when I don't see any more activity I will remove the spunding valve, top up the headspace pressure to 10 PSI and soft crash to about 55F.
4. A day or so later I harvest yeast. I take about a quart and then come back 6 hours later and take another quart (CF15).
5. Then I add my dry hops (O2 free dry hopper mounted on the 4" TC port)
6. A day later I top up headspace pressure to 10-15 PSI and start cold crashing to 35F. I check pressure a couple times to make sure pressure doesn't fall below 5 PSI during the crash.
7. I dump some of the dry hop a day before kegging and then a bit more a few hours before I keg.

 

[WesBrew]

Ive rarely brewed ipa so this is more hops than im used to. Typically use a wilser hop bag to dry hop day 3 or 4. The pages i read through here report getting better hop flavor throwing them in .
i dont have o2 protection for the dryhop. I could wait another day or two , harvest some yeast, then dry hop. I would like to avoid having a bunch of hop material in the yeast if possible. Not really a fan of washing it. Bit of concern with oxidation waiting longer. Maybe its not an issue.maybe enough healthy yeast will drop while fermentation is still active

 

[eric19312]

Thing about harvesting yeast from the yeast that drops is you are going to be selecting for the early floccing yeast cells. The later floccing cells that remain in suspension longer will be the ones that drive your last few points of attenuation, are more responsible for "cleaning" off flavors such as diacetyl, and may be involved in creating that haze you are looking for in a NEIPA.

Since you don't have O2 free dry hop ability I'd put the dry hops in early, even on day 2, let them swim free, and forget about saving yeast from this batch. Next batch make a starter and overbuild the starter. Save the overbuilt yeast and don't try to save yeast from the fermentor.

That way you will be getting a full spectrum of the different yeast cells in the pitch, it will all have been propagated under near ideal conditions for growing yeast (low gravity, low hop, excess oxygen).

The other option that might still be available to you on this batch would be to let fermentation get going strong. Maybe day 2 or 3 but probably not later than day 3. Then open the fermentor and top crop the yeast for next batch. Add dry hops (free no bags) while you have it open. The yeast from the top crop krausen should be a full spectrum of truly happy healthy yeast. These are the best of the best cells since all the dead ones drop out early. The active fermentation will scrub any oxygen you introduce in the process very quickly, probably before your dry hops even fully disintegrate.

 

[WesBrew]

Thanks. Ports everywhere. Top cropping I guess is the way to go on this one, if I insist on harvesting the yeast. Too much beer right now and doing a dry week. Soon I’ll put this thing through its maiden voyage

 

[WesBrew]

Is anyone using the CIP spray ball? i hooked up for a test last week and it seemed to be working but the the spray wasn't robust. . I was using a blichmann riptide pump. had the elbow on the unused port on the lid, draining out the dump port. any advice appreciated.

 

[itsnotrequired]

Is anyone using the CIP spray ball? i hooked up for a test last week and it seemed to be working but the the spray wasn't robust. . I was using a blichmann riptide pump. had the elbow on the unused port on the lid, draining out the dump port. any advice appreciated.

i use the spray ball. it works pretty good but there are some areas it doesn't reach very well, particularly on the lid and the "shadow" created by the cooling coil. backside of the coil doesn't get the cleanest either. of course, a bigger issue on beers that blow off and coat the entire inside of the conical, less of an issue with low-krausen beers. also works better on half batches where the conical is not as full. i rotate the cooling coil during cleaning so the "backside" gets cleaned.

so while it isn't perfect at cleaning, it takes care of, like, 95% of the effort. i just wipe the couple areas that get missed, just takes a couple minutes. i have a better ball from a homemade keg washer but unfortunately, the ball doesn't fit through the port on the lid. i can still use it but need to take the lid off and attach from below. i did it a couple times and it was too much of a hassle as inevitably gunk would fall off the coil and onto the floor as i pulled it out, stuff fell off the lid, stuff got on the gasket, i had to put it back together and take it apart again after cleaning, etc.

 

[WesBrew]

i use the spray ball. it works pretty good but there are some areas it doesn't reach very well, particularly on the lid and the "shadow" created by the cooling coil. backside of the coil doesn't get the cleanest either. of course, a bigger issue on beers that blow off and coat the entire inside of the conical, less of an issue with low-krausen beers. also works better on half batches where the conical is not as full. i rotate the cooling coil during cleaning so the "backside" gets cleaned.

so while it isn't perfect at cleaning, it takes care of, like, 95% of the effort. i just wipe the couple areas that get missed, just takes a couple minutes.

Thanks. That’s pretty good. I’ll have to work on the lack of pressure in the spray. Asked spike what I can do. Maybe I’ll run it through a few minutes. Take the coil out . Soak the coil . Run the pbw through the cip a few more minutes. Was going to sanitize with it too- not sure now.

 

[itsnotrequired]

Thanks. That’s pretty good. I’ll have to work on the lack of pressure in the spray. Asked spike what I can do. Maybe I’ll run it through a few minutes. Take the coil out . Soak the coil . Run the pbw through the cip a few more minutes. Was going to sanitize with it too- not sure now.

i use a 1/3 hp sump pump. i rigged up some piping on the pump discharge with a male camlock fitting. then i use a piece of 1/2" inside diameter tubing with female camlock on each end and another male camlock adapter on the 1.5" port on the lid (straight female camlock fitting at the pump discharge, 90 degree fitting at the lid). i have the cf10 with leg extensions and use two 2" 90 degree triclamp elbows (vertical position) on the discharge (sight glass attached vertically to bottom of conical). these elbows bring the conical "discharge" out in front past the leg bracing shelf (i have the leg extensions). i set the sump pump in a 5 gal bucket of pbw solution and with a slight tip of the bucket am able to slip it under the elbows and bump up against the bracing shelf. the elbows are such that i have to remove the bottom valve for cleaning (i fermement with sight glass and then valve on discharge). so now the pump moves cleaner up through the tubing to the lid port, through the spray ball, out the conical bottom/elbows and discharges directly into the 5 gal bucket. i run this for maybe 15 minutes or so.

initially, i run clean water through the conical to remove the bulk of any material clinging to the interior surfaces. this is a once-through pass using similar setup as above except this time, bucket of clean water/pump off to side and empty bucket under discharge elbows. run the clean water through, dump the dirty water and then recirc cleaning solution as described above. same deal on rinsing after cleaning, clean water once-through. i've found a once-through rinse is all that is needed. after rinsing, i take all the fittings off and clean those up (most are pretty clean from the cip process but the racking arm/valve and sample port need some attention). let everything dry and put away. i do put the lid back on with the cooling coil and a cap on the 1.5" lid port, just to keep dust out. i sanitize on brew day. sanitizing through the cip ball with a pump will get you a big, foamy mess.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I use the cip ball on my cf15 with a chugger pump, I heat my pbw to 185 in my boil kettle, I run a few gallons out the bottom of the conical into a bucket to get the first bit of trub material out. Once that clears a little I close the bottom port and let it fill up past the the racking arm. Then I hook the racking arm port to another pump and feed it back into my boil kettle and get the flow rate even so that I can let it circulate and run the cip at 185 with pbw for 30 minutes or a little longer. With the chilling coil in this does 95% of th cleaning, after that I spray everything down with hot water to rinse thoroughly. All the doodads get removed and soaked as well then rinsed. Every once in Awhile I have to do some extra scrubbing but not much. On brewday I spray the fermenter down with starsan and the doodads get soaked in starsan then assemble as I'm doing my whirlpool.

 

[natmartin]

After a 2-year break in brewing, my CF5 is arriving next week, and I'm excited to get back to it! I'm getting the CIP ball, and I had planned on recirculating SaniClean through it prior to brewing, to sanitize the interior, and to sanitize the tubing used to transfer from my grainfather. Any concerns with this approach?

The initial location for the fermenter will be underneath a counter in my kitchen, so I'm fairly height limited. Looking at some drawings, I can fit the fermenter with the chiller connections under the counter, but adding the casters will make it too tall. It seems that having the fermenter in position before transferring will be best, so I don't have to move it without wheels when full.

How difficult will it be for me to pitch the yeast in one of the 1.5" ports while it's underneath a 35" tall counter? Is there another way to pitch the yeast I should be considering?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Use a sanitized food grade funnel to add your yeast, hopefully you can hit the front port with it in that cabinet via the funnel. I don't know the measurements but giving the limited space you'll have to find ways to make it work for you. If you're dryhopping at all this could prove to be a challenge, as for running the starsan through the cip I believe this is what @eric19312 does so maybe he will have some insight for you there.

Edit: assuming you are using liquid yeast, the funnel could help.

 

[natmartin]

Thanks @bailey mountain brewer! One good thing at least is that it's not in a cabinet, it will just be underneath a counter (that extends away from the cabinets.) I'll have about 2" on top of the cooling coils, but it could be tricky. I guess putting the fermenter on top of the counter might be an option.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Well if that's an option, that's what I would do. Make life easier, if it's in the way... oh well, it's for a good cause.

 

[WesBrew]

Put it on the counter top and let it shine. They look beautiful . Will be much easier to work with there too

 

[eric19312]

I'm not very bendy so the idea of fiddling with one of these under the counter sounds unpleasant. I guess the funnel will work for yeast...perhaps find one that will fit a piece of 1/2" ID silicone tubing so you can do your pouring up above the counter and not get sloppy. But how are you going to get dry hops in there?

And yes as @bailey mountain brewer mentioned I use my CIP ball to spray inside with starsan as part of CIP process. The CIP process was a learning curve for me. I found I need to start with a visibly clean fermentor in order for CIP to really work well. Otherwise the spray ball plugs up and won't spin. Wasn't what I really was expecting but am happy with how it is working out.

 

[Jeremy W]

After a 2-year break in brewing, my CF5 is arriving next week, and I'm excited to get back to it! I'm getting the CIP ball, and I had planned on recirculating SaniClean through it prior to brewing, to sanitize the interior, and to sanitize the tubing used to transfer from my grainfather. Any concerns with this approach?

This is what I did for my last brew a few weeks ago. I tried normal StarSan before, but with the CIP it gets unbelievable foamy, basically all foam haha. I don't fear the foam, but when I went to fill the fermentor through the bottom dump port, there was foam shooting out through the port that I left open at the top. That pushed me to try SaniClean and it was much more manageable in terms of staying liquid through the sanitizing process. I was a bit leery of the fact that it's only officially listed as a "final acid rinse" or something but I understand that if you follow the instructions it should be just as effective as StarSan.

 

[natmartin]

Thanks all! Looks like on top of the counter will best, and saniclean sounds like a great way to go. Should I sanitize with blanks on all of the ports, and then install the actual fittings after the CIP? (Obviously after soaking the fittings in sanitizer)

 

[WesBrew]

Thanks all! Looks like on top of the counter will best, and saniclean sounds like a great way to go. Should I sanitize with blanks on all of the ports, and then install the actual fittings after the CIP? (Obviously after soaking the fittings in sanitizer)

You need the open elbow on one port. There has to be a vent when running the cip. My plan is to give everything on top a quick dip, then circulate sanitizer through the fermenter for a few minutes

 

[eric19312]

Thanks all! Looks like on top of the counter will best, and saniclean sounds like a great way to go. Should I sanitize with blanks on all of the ports, and then install the actual fittings after the CIP? (Obviously after soaking the fittings in sanitizer)

That is what I do...except as @WESBREW said elbow on the bottom - I use a barb and hose on the elbow to run cleaner back to my bucket - and one of the side ports gets a barb and hose for venting. This configuration goes all the way through CIP. All the accessory parts start out in a bucket of tap water to rinse, then when the fermentor is done with PBW cycle they go into that bucket to soak, then when fermentor is done with hot water rinse cycle, the parts move to that rinse water bucket, finally when done with star san cycle on the fermentor the parts go into star san bucket to soak before being reassembled wet.

I do use star san and haven't had that much trouble with the foam. I use star san because I already usually have 5 gallons of it mixed up on hand for purging kegs. I've tested it with a pH meter as it starts getting old and never had it come back over ph 3 so still effective, but I go ahead and dump it and make fresh every other month or so.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Thanks all! Looks like on top of the counter will best, and saniclean sounds like a great way to go. Should I sanitize with blanks on all of the ports, and then install the actual fittings after the CIP? (Obviously after soaking the fittings in sanitizer)

All great advice from Wesbrew & eric19312 for using the CIP. I have the CF10 and after kegging from the fermenterI remove the top I fill it with PBW and scrub it out inside and brush any small areas. After that I drain the PBW mixture into a buckets then remove everything from the fermenter and let them soak. After a rinse everything is sanitized and assembled back on the fermenter body. It's probably more work but then I know I got all those little hidden spots clean. Certainly nothing wrong with the CIP route, whatever works best for you.