Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[Jag75]

My first is, I’ll be getting the shorty leg extensions and bracket with casters. I know it says not to roll it while full. Is that still true even with the shorty extensions and brace??

I roll mine I have to. Just be careful and dont go too fast and like mongoose says push on the shelf with your foot . I'm loving mine !

 

[ITV]

With an upright freezer, there seems to be less maintenance. Just put the fermenter in, fill it, set the controller, plug in the freezer and light bulb, and wait for it to finish. Plus I have an extra freezer if the need ever arose. I could certainly keep my hops in there to appease SWMBO.

Don't forget, with a temperature controller, you can turn the freezer into a refrigerator if the need ever arose.
I use an upright freezer for my CF10 and it works great.

 

[Nate R]

Don't forget, with a temperature controller, you can turn the freezer into a refrigerator if the need ever arose.
I use an upright freezer for my CF10 and it works great.
View attachment 635303

You don't overshoot temps at all?

 

[jturman35]

Glycol chiller and never look back! Westy 12 Clone conditioning at 48deg even though it’s 102 outside and beer is in my garage! After two craigslist chest freezers crapping out on me in a 2yr period I’m not going back down that road.

 

[Blazinlow86]

You don't overshoot temps at all?

Why would it? Using a fridge or freezer to cool liquid is pretty standard stuff by now. If your freezer or fridge is regularly overshooting your set temp you have something set up incorrectly or a faulty component. Exactly the same as a keezer or carboys in a chest freezer. Cheers

 

[Blazinlow86]

Glycol chiller and never look back! Westy 12 Clone conditioning at 48deg even though it’s 102 outside and beer is in my garage! After two craigslist chest freezers crapping out on me in a 2yr period I’m not going back down that road.

View attachment 635312

What specifically do you like better about the new setup? Did it make it easier to use or was it because the freezers could not get down to your desired 48f because they failed? Curious as it sounds like it was a huge improvement for your process. Cheers

 

[jturman35]

When I was using chest freezers I was still using glass carboys. No more heavy lifting! Glycol just seems so much more efficient and a smaller foot print. Some may disagree but this has been so much better than chest freezers with ink-bird controller.

I feel like the temp control is more precise now using the glycol set up. For me it’s just been a win win set up.

 

[Nate R]

When I was using chest freezers I was still using glass carboys. No more heavy lifting! Glycol just seems so much more efficient and a smaller foot print. Some may disagree but this has been so much better than chest freezers with ink-bird controller.

I feel like the temp control is more precise now using the glycol set up. For me it’s just been a win win set up.

+ 1 to this. I agree. Obviously i was not setting up freezer properly BUT the coils are just so much more precise imo.

 

[eric19312]

+ 1 to this. I agree. Obviously i was not setting up freezer properly BUT the coils are just so much more precise imo.

I’d really like to see evidence that the coils are more precise than using a fridge or freezer based chamber. My thinking when I read this, no disrespect intended, is a prime example of confirmation bias. The coils plus glycol system are a significant expense, no doubt they work well but I’d like to see evidence from data logs comparing level of temperature control.

 

[Nate R]

I’d really like to see evidence that the coils are more precise than using a fridge or freezer based chamber. My thinking when I read this, no disrespect intended, is a prime example of confirmation bias. The coils plus glycol system are a significant expense, no doubt they work well but I’d like to see evidence from data logs comparing level of temperature control.

All i have is my tests. My log book sux but works for me. And i agree i did not set up the temp correctly.
I wanted the freezer to work- cause i had to spend more money on coils. Was trying not to. Wish it had worked.

However, this is what i would say- coils are in direct contact with liquid and cool just that space. The fridge or freezer has to first cool the outside in- plus all the dead space inside the chamber. Probably the smaller the chamber space makes a difference.

Heres what i know- changing ice water sucks. I will (eventually) have to go glycol. For more money. But i have a freezer i keep food in now because the coils just work better- for me.

To each his own- but i would argue if you tried it too you would probably agree. But maybe not.
But it also sounds like you know what you are doing seting up temp control. So the fridge/freezer is perfect for you.

I will say this- NOTHING beats cold crashing in a freezer!! So fast so easy!!

 

[Blazinlow86]

When I was using chest freezers I was still using glass carboys. No more heavy lifting! Glycol just seems so much more efficient and a smaller foot print. Some may disagree but this has been so much better than chest freezers with ink-bird controller.

I feel like the temp control is more precise now using the glycol set up. For me it’s just been a win win set up.

No I mean specially what do you prefer about using Glycol to cool your cf15 over using a fridge/freezer to cool the cf15? Cheers

 

[jturman35]

Another point to mention with the glycol set up is you can ferment multiple conicals at different temps if you wanted.

 

[ITV]

You don't overshoot temps at all?

Only when initially cooling my wort since I am externally cooling the fermenter and there is a time delay for the wort to reach equilibrium. My solution is to set the target temp halfway between the desired target temp and the actual temp, then repeat until you are at the target temp. For example if the actual temp of my fermenter is 80 deg and I want to get it to 60 deg, I would initially set the inkbird to 70 deg, let it settle in and repeat until it get it to my target temp. Kind of like a poor mans PID controller.

Another way is to have the heater kick on when the overshoot occurs but this is a waste of energy.

 

[Nate R]

Only when initially cooling my wort since I am externally cooling the fermenter and there is a time delay for the wort to reach equilibrium. My solution is to set the target temp halfway between the desired target temp and the actual temp, then repeat until you are at the target temp. For example if the actual temp of my fermenter is 80 deg and I want to get it to 60 deg, I would initially set the inkbird to 70 deg, let it settle in and repeat until it get it to my target temp. Kind of like a poor mans PID controller.

Another way is to have the heater kick on when the overshoot occurs but this is a waste of energy.

Yeah that is good. Again i am all for the fridge/freezer chamber. I wanted wanted it to work. When i moved i gained the ability to ferment in the house (still not sure how she gave me the green light- maybe because the cf5 does look pretty cool? Like any conical nowadays... just like the big boys use) and did not want to lug the full conical from home outside to freezer.
I reluctantly bought the cooling package... but after seeing how precise it is i wish i would have done it to begin with.
I was able to lager at 50 and crashed down to about 40 with just ice water in a cooler. Of course it was cooler temps then. I racked then let the keg crash in my keezer.

I think there are many ways to groom a cat and to each his own.

Fwiw to anybody looking to buy, my 0.02 is to really see the beauty of these new conicals (whatever brand you get) plan on adding the cooling package if you want it to be + or - 1 degree the entire time you ferment.

 

[Re:find]

I’m using a chest freezer, Johnson temperature controller, and heating pads. It keeps everything within 1f, year round.

I’m sure Glycol is a great way to do it, but don’t rule out freezers totally. I got mine off craigslist for free and can ferment 25 gallons in it using 3 different conical fermenters. This is great when I do double days of 10 gallon batches.

It’s also lasted me 5 years without crapping out.

-TC

 

[kevink]

I’d really like to see evidence that the coils are more precise than using a fridge or freezer based chamber. My thinking when I read this, no disrespect intended, is a prime example of confirmation bias. The coils plus glycol system are a significant expense, no doubt they work well but I’d like to see evidence from data logs comparing level of temperature control.

Coils are not more precise than fridge or freezer based chamber. Sorry, but that is just nonsense. Use brewpi with a fridge or freezer and you will hold temps within 0.1 degree F. That will be much more precise than a glycol system using a simple on/off controller.

 

[cubsfan16]

I have both a fermentation freezer for my SS brew buckets and a DIY glycol chiller for my CF5. I'm fairly confident they both maintain temp about the same +/- 1 or 2 F. Advantages I have found over the freezer...its faster to temp (more efficient), I can transfer 80-90F wort during the summer to the CF5 and drop down to 65F to pitch using the chiller in minutes not hours, 65F to 33F to cold crash in a hour or so, no lifting (safety), looks cooler to have the CF5 on display in my brewery vs in a freezer. My opinion, there isn't going to be any impact on beer quality from one or the another. Do what you like, and what works for your budget...just know both can be had very cheap if you come across a free or cheap freezer or AC unit.

Disadvantages I can think of...more expensive even if you DIY (gallon of glycol is ~$25, need an extra inkbird to control the glycol/DI reservoir temp, transfer lines, quick disconnects for glycol lines, chiller coil setup, cooler, plywood for enclosure) it adds up.

 

[ZmannR2]

I bought a kickass full sized convertible fridge/freezer with one full size compartment. Going to fill the CF10 from my kettle and roll it (shorty extensions, brace, and casters) to the fridge 15 feet away and physically lift it into the fridge.

My question: is lifting/tilting a CF10 w/11 gals of wort about 8” off the ground into the fridge going to be too much for one man to handle???

 

[eric19312]

I don’t own one but used to lift a speidel 60L tank into fridge with 11 gallons. I’d feel it for 2 or 3 days every time. Got a long 3/8” line and started pumping the 12 feet or so to the fermentor at same time I started brewing 16 gallon batches. My back really appreciates and probably less than a pint of wort in the line and that is mostly trub.

 

[ITV]

The handles on the Spike conical's are intended to lift empty. I suppose you could bear hug the conical and attempt to lift it but as stated above by eric19312 you are risking your back and potentially dumping the conical. I also recommend pumping your wort into the CF10.

Speidel states that the handles on their fermenters are rated to handle the full load which I have done with 12 gallons of a RIS in my 60l, which I paid for the next day.

 

[jturman35]

Work smarter not harder! I’m actually mashing a RIS as I type this. I quit lifting beer which is the main reason I bought my CF5. I pump straight from my BK into the conical. Only lifting is after I transfer down into a keg.

 

[Nate R]

I bought a kickass full sized convertible fridge/freezer with one full size compartment. Going to fill the CF10 from my kettle and roll it (shorty extensions, brace, and casters) to the fridge 15 feet away and physically lift it into the fridge.

My question: is lifting/tilting a CF10 w/11 gals of wort about 8” off the ground into the fridge going to be too much for one man to handle???

I would say no. As mentioned above you should NOT use the handles when full. I have moved the cf5 full and it is heavy! Bear hug is about the only way. Keep in mind you will be moving it with all the hardware attached.
Granted if you can leverage each leg up 8" it might be easier, but i would be leary of shifting the weight load from 3 legs to 2 or 1. Be careful.
+1 to the idea above of a pump and hose. Might cost you about $100 but what does one visit to the dr. cost or one day off work cost?

 

[Blazinlow86]

I added casters to the bottom of my freezer. If needed I can roll the entire freezer with the cf15 full anywhere in my brewery. I definitely would not attempt to lift it. I'd go back to carboys if they was my only option honestly. Cheers

 

[eric19312]

Duplicate

 

[ZmannR2]

So Spike sells 2" casters in sets of 3 for the 5, 10, and 15 CF's and beefier 4" casters in sets of 4 for their CF30.

Does anyone know if the 4" casters will still fit on the smaller CF's? I think a 4" wheel would roll much nicer across my garage for not much more $$

 

[Blazinlow86]

So Spike sells 2" casters in sets of 3 for the 5, 10, and 15 CF's and beefier 4" casters in sets of 4 for their CF30.

Does anyone know if the 4" casters will still fit on the smaller CF's? I think a 4" wheel would roll much nicer across my garage for not much more $$

Save your money.... Lifting it into the freezer isn't gonna work out. Put wheels in the freezer or just use a long enough hose to pump into the fermentor and account for the loss in the line. Cheers

 

[ZmannR2]

Save your money.... Lifting it into the freezer isn't gonna work out. Put wheels in the freezer or just use a long enough hose to pump into the fermentor and account for the loss in the line. Cheers

Well I need casters on it anyways regardless if I move the fridge or not. Definitely NOT doing 15 feet of hose though.

Guess we'll find out on the lifting idea cuz here's my order.......LETS DO THIS!

 

[ZmannR2]

How is everyone storing their CF? Do you store it sealed up and sanitized or leave it open to airflow so as not to trap moisture in it? I am thinking I'll just keep it stored in my fridge at 32 degrees but I'm betting when I pull it out to fill it with wort, it'll get awfully sweaty!

 

[Blazinlow86]

How is everyone storing their CF? Do you store it sealed up and sanitized or leave it open to airflow so as not to trap moisture in it? I am thinking I'll just keep it stored in my fridge at 32 degrees but I'm betting when I pull it out to fill it with wort, it'll get awfully sweaty!

I leave mine clean unsealed. That said mine is always in use so that never really happens. I brew every 2nd Sunday and rack the prev batch to kegs the day before. I'd MUCH MUCH rather pump thru a 15 foot hose than lifting the full conical. What's the big hangup over using the hose? It's pretty standard process. I suggest not overthinking this one. If your only option is lifting unfortunately I don't think your process/brewspace is a good fit for a conical. Cheers

 

[Nate R]

How is everyone storing their CF? Do you store it sealed up and sanitized or leave it open to airflow so as not to trap moisture in it? I am thinking I'll just keep it stored in my fridge at 32 degrees but I'm betting when I pull it out to fill it with wort, it'll get awfully sweaty!

I clean it well, then put it back in the box. I sanitize it before i fill it on brew day

 

[ZmannR2]

I leave mine clean unsealed. That said mine is always in use so that never really happens. I brew every 2nd Sunday and rack the prev batch to kegs the day before. I'd MUCH MUCH rather pump thru a 15 foot hose than lifting the full conical. What's the big hangup over using the hose? It's pretty standard process. I suggest not overthinking this one. If your only option is lifting unfortunately I don't think your process/brewspace is a good fit for a conical. Cheers

Just not gonna do it. It may even be 20 feet. I’m just not gonna deal with all that hose and the sanitation n cleaning that comes with it.

I’ll figure something out. I always do. Last time I had an issue about lifting my brew in a basket filled with wet grain I built a unistrut lift and trolley mechanism on my ceiling using a hoist.

2 min mark in my vid here:




I’m sure if it comes down to it I can built another lifting mechanism to wrap around the bottom of the cone and gently raise it into
The fridge.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Just not gonna do it. It may even be 20 feet. I’m just not gonna deal with all that hose and the sanitation n cleaning that comes with it.

I’ll figure something out. I always do. Last time I had an issue about lifting my brew in a basket filled with wet grain I built a unistrut lift and trolley mechanism on my ceiling using a hoist.

2 min mark in my vid here:




I’m sure if it comes down to it I can built another lifting mechanism to wrap around the bottom of the cone and gently raise it into
The fridge.

Eh whatever you like I guess. To me buying a piece of hose and soaking it in a bucket of starsan is a easier more elegant and most importantly a safer way to add wort to the conical than building some sort of lifting device capable of holding 100+ pounds in the air. I predict either a long hose preferably, a glycol chiller or 2x 5 gallon fermentors designed to be lifted full by hand in your future. Cheers

 

[kevink]

I also pump about 15-20 feet to my fermenter and totally don't understand the aversion to doing it. Cleaning and sanitizing a short hose is the exact same amount of work as cleaning and sanitizing a long hose. Do what you want, but it seems kind of odd. I think you'll change your mind eventually.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Just not gonna do it. It may even be 20 feet. I’m just not gonna deal with all that hose and the sanitation n cleaning that comes with it.

I’ll figure something out. I always do. Last time I had an issue about lifting my brew in a basket filled with wet grain I built a unistrut lift and trolley mechanism on my ceiling using a hoist.

2 min mark in my vid here:




I’m sure if it comes down to it I can built another lifting mechanism to wrap around the bottom of the cone and gently raise it into
The fridge.

Looking at your video can't you just put the freezer to the left of your brewstand and pump into it with a short hose?

 

[Zooksta]

Just not gonna do it. It may even be 20 feet. I’m just not gonna deal with all that hose and the sanitation n cleaning that comes with it.

I pump about 10 feet to my conical. It's not really a big deal to clean/sanitize the tubing, just recirculate through the hose for the last 15 minutes of the boil and recirculate pbw to clean.

 

[ZmannR2]

Looking at your video can't you just put the freezer to the left of your brewstand and pump into it with a short hose?

Yep, but I really like where my fridge is now lol.....I'm sure that's what I'll end up doing though

 

[mongoose33]

I’d really like to see evidence that the coils are more precise than using a fridge or freezer based chamber. My thinking when I read this, no disrespect intended, is a prime example of confirmation bias. The coils plus glycol system are a significant expense, no doubt they work well but I’d like to see evidence from data logs comparing level of temperature control.

Well, they can be precise, but I don't know if they're MORE precise....

When I'm trying to maintain ferm temp in the garage--say 65 degrees, for example--and I have the glycol chiller at 28 degrees, it's common for it to overshoot on the downside. Then the heating pad takes over, and then not unusual to overshoot on the top side (though less common).

I wouldn't consider that particularly precise.

The solution to that is I set the glycol chiller at 50 degrees, and that does a good job chilling without overshoot. I just started crashing a beer, so I changed the setting on the chiller from 50 to 28; it won't overshoot on the downside. In the very warm garage, I probably can't get it lower than about 38.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Well, they can be precise, but I don't know if they're MORE precise....

When I'm trying to maintain ferm temp in the garage--say 65 degrees, for example--and I have the glycol chiller at 28 degrees, it's common for it to overshoot on the downside. Then the heating pad takes over, and then not unusual to overshoot on the top side (though less common).

I wouldn't consider that particularly precise.

The solution to that is I set the glycol chiller at 50 degrees, and that does a good job chilling without overshoot. I just started crashing a beer, so I changed the setting on the chiller from 50 to 28; it won't overshoot on the downside. In the very warm garage, I probably can't get it lower than about 38.

I think the thing here is one person had a issue with there fridge overshooting and now that's bring perceived as normal when it's not. Now all a sudden glycol is somehow more accurate lol. Cheers

 

[Nate R]

Work smarter not harder! I’m actually mashing a RIS as I type this. I quit lifting beer which is the main reason I bought my CF5. I pump straight from my BK into the conical. Only lifting is after I transfer down into a keg.

View attachment 635523

What's the fan for in front of your DIY glycol chiller? DO you need to help the chiller cool or is just to keep your garage/ brew room cool?

 

[eric19312]

Well, they can be precise, but I don't know if they're MORE precise....

When I'm trying to maintain ferm temp in the garage--say 65 degrees, for example--and I have the glycol chiller at 28 degrees, it's common for it to overshoot on the downside. Then the heating pad takes over, and then not unusual to overshoot on the top side (though less common).

I wouldn't consider that particularly precise.

The solution to that is I set the glycol chiller at 50 degrees, and that does a good job chilling without overshoot. I just started crashing a beer, so I changed the setting on the chiller from 50 to 28; it won't overshoot on the downside. In the very warm garage, I probably can't get it lower than about 38.

So you are managing overshoot the same way I am...by manually moderating the temp differences. I believe it works well as it does for me but aren’t you limiting one of the key advantages of a glycol system ... being able to provide chilling to multiple fermentors ... when you do this? Say you wanted to cold crash fermentor A while maintaining 65F in fermentor B?