Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[bailey mountain brewer]

Well that's why I posted that at the beginning, and also I'm putting a lot more then 10oz of hops in my cf15 for a neipa.. as a percentage the 10oz of hops will take up less room in the cf5 then it would in a 5 gallon corny being its 7gallon total capacity. Again I'm not disagreeing with your process simply giving another option, with the dip tube and a little practice one can get good results and have little losses dryhopping in these conicals. There's no "one right way".

 

[YeastFeast]

Yeastfeast what did the DH site glass combo set you back $ ?

Not cheap!
The PRV and the 1.5" sight glass came from Spike. (Of course you could find cheaper parts to do the gas & release valve piece but I was going to get Spike's anyway for use other than dry hopping).
The 1.5" TC ball valve came from Brewershardware.com (Brewers Hardware 1.5" Tri Clover Compatible Ball Valve - Round Handle Design). $42.00. I really wanted a ball valve vs a butterfly because I heard so many stories of stuck hops using a 1.5" butterfly. This one had the largest inside diameter I could find. (Someone on this forum posted it in their setup, sorry can't remember who but they said it worked well.)

 

[jturman35]

Well that's why I posted that at the beginning, and also I'm putting a lot more then 10oz of hops in my cf15 for a neipa.. as a percentage the 10oz of hops will take up less room in the cf5 then it would in a 5 gallon corny being its 7gallon total capacity. Again I'm not disagreeing with your process simply giving another option, with the dip tube and a little practice one can get good results and have little losses dryhopping in these conicals. There's no "one right way".

You are correct sir, had a brain fart and completely forgot about scale! Im starting to think the CF5 isn’t quite big enough for NEIPA or either I’m not filling up enough. I guess I’m worried about blow off and making a mess.


Anyone using the CF5 have blow off when going up to 6 gallon mark? That I leaves 1.5 gallons of head space which doesn’t seem like enough.

 

[DavidWood2115]

I have the "parts" to drop hops as oxygen free as possible: lid > ball valve > sight glass > spike all-in-one PRV...so hopefully that works.

Putting a ball valve (or any valve) between the lid and the PRV is a big safety No-No. There should never be anything between the pressure vessel and the PRV that can be closed. I put my All-in-one-PRV on the PRV port and have a separate dry hopper top that I build with parts from brew hardware, spike, and amazon.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

You are correct sir, had a brain fart and completely forgot about scale! Im starting to think the CF5 isn’t quite big enough for NEIPA or either I’m not filling up enough. I guess I’m worried about blow off and making a mess.


Anyone using the CF5 have blow off when going up to 6 gallon mark? That I leaves 1.5 gallons of head space which doesn’t seem like enough.

So fwiw, again different scale, when I do my neipa I fill the cf15 to the top about 17.5 gallon in a 18 gallon fermenter. Yes there is blow off, usually. If I stop at 17 and leave a gallon of headspace it is obviously less. For me to fill 3 kegs though i need to start with atleast 17 gallons. I haven't had any issue though as far as attenuation from losing some of the yeast, i build a huge starter obviously. I'd say go for atleast 6gallons maybe a little more and see what happens, a little blow off never hurt anyone, long as your setup for it of course haha. I put have the spike blow off arm feeding into a bucket of starsan which is overkill but no mess.

 

[Jesse Runowski]

I use a cf15 so the results may vary but I will just give an example of what I do for my neipa. I dry hop in my conical, before that I soft crash and dump yeast. I dry hop at 55f and rouse the hops via co2 in the bottom port. Come time to keg I cold crash for 2 days, the past 2 neipas I've done I have left the dry hops in so my only dump was of yeast before dryhopping. I set my racking arm around 10 - 11 o'clock position and I purge the transfer line a couple times until the racking arm clears of hop debris. I use and inline filter so I don't clog any poppets. I have filled 3 kegs completely doing it this way the past 2 times, I fill my kegs by weight. I also fill my cf15 to the rim when I brew a neipa because there will be losses no matter how you go about it. Yes we try to limit them but its inevitable, even with the dry hop keg, if you think about it, the amount of space taken up by the hop spider with hops in it is also a loss to final volume, though probably minimal. And I will add I think that is a great idea and a sound process, not knocking it at all, just putting another option out there that I have found success with.
Cheers!

This is very similar to my process and I have to agree, it works really well. I dump once after soft crashing at 55 F for 48 hours, dry hop at 55 F for another 24 hours then start my cold crash. I then dump one more time before kegging. With this method I experience no hop burn and get a full keg after transfer.

One change I've made to my setup that has made a huge impact is placing a 2" butterfly valve at the bottom 2" port of my CF5. I close the valve after dumping yeast and starting my dry hop. It stops the hops from settling in the elbow, which in my experience greatly reduced hop extraction in my beer. Since doing that my beer has been so much more flavorful. I haven't tried it yet but my next step is to bubble CO2.

 

[YeastFeast]

Putting a ball valve (or any valve) between the lid and the PRV is a big safety No-No. There should never be anything between the pressure vessel and the PRV that can be closed. I put my All-in-one-PRV on the PRV port and have a separate dry hopper top that I build with parts from brew hardware, spike, and amazon. View attachment 774814

Makes sense. I see you are able to add Co2 but how do you purge it? Is that just a cap on the left side or some kind of release?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

This is very similar to my process and I have to agree, it works really well. I dump once after soft crashing at 55 F for 48 hours, dry hop at 55 F for another 24 hours then start my cold crash. I then dump one more time before kegging. With this method I experience no hop burn and get a full keg after transfer.

One change I've made to my setup that has made a huge impact is placing a 2" butterfly valve at the bottom 2" port of my CF5. I close the valve after dumping yeast and starting my dry hop. It stops the hops from settling in the elbow, which in my experience greatly reduced hop extraction in my beer. Since doing that my beer has been so much more flavorful. I haven't tried it yet but my next step is to bubble CO2.

I agree 100% and I have been pushing co2 a few times from the bottom after dryhopping which has also helped greatly.

 

[k-daddy]

I use a cf15 so the results may vary but I will just give an example of what I do for my neipa. I dry hop in my conical, before that I soft crash and dump yeast. I dry hop at 55f and rouse the hops via co2 in the bottom port. Come time to keg I cold crash for 2 days, the past 2 neipas I've done I have left the dry hops in so my only dump was of yeast before dryhopping. I set my racking arm around 10 - 11 o'clock position and I purge the transfer line a couple times until the racking arm clears of hop debris. I use and inline filter so I don't clog any poppets. I have filled 3 kegs completely doing it this way the past 2 times, I fill my kegs by weight. I also fill my cf15 to the rim when I brew a neipa because there will be losses no matter how you go about it. Yes we try to limit them but its inevitable, even with the dry hop keg, if you think about it, the amount of space taken up by the hop spider with hops in it is also a loss to final volume, though probably minimal. And I will add I think that is a great idea and a sound process, not knocking it at all, just putting another option out there that I have found success with.
Cheers!

Similar process used here. I've been using a pump to recirculate the dry hops in my CF-5 (up through the dump port and out the racking arm). Works well but I'd like to try the Co2 bubble up method to make for less work and an easier cleanup. What is your psi setting? How many times do you purge, when and for how long? Some have said that precious aroma is lost when purging but I'm a bit skeptical that it would actually have a negative effect the final product.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I don't feel as though I lose any aroma and the extra utilization you get by putting the hops back into suspension is well worth it. I set my regulator around 8 to 10 psi and purge several time until I feel the hops are back up in, I use a sight glass. Before I got the all in 1 prv I would just pull the prv on the spike manifold. Now I set the all in one to release at 5 ish psi which seems to work well. I'll do that a couple times in the morning and again in the evening. Then start my cold crash the next day.

 

[k-daddy]

I don't feel as though I lose any aroma and the extra utilization you get by putting the hops back into suspension is well worth it. I set my regulator around 8 to 10 psi and purge several time until I feel the hops are back up in, I use a sight glass. Before I got the all in 1 prv I would just pull the prv on the spike manifold. Now I set the all in one to release at 5 ish psi which seems to work well. I'll do that a couple times in the morning and again in the evening. Then start my cold crash the next day.

Thanks! Giving it a go on my next brew. What is your sight-glass/butterfly valve(s)/elbow sequence starting at the dump port?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Conical, sight glass, valve, elbow, valve. Then fitting I trade out a nipple to dump trub and the co2 qd fitting.

 

[DavidWood2115]

Makes sense. I see you are able to add Co2 but how do you purge it? Is that just a cap on the left side or some kind of release?

I use my FoodSaver vacuum sealer (with a jerry-rigged ball valve connection) to evacuate the air through the ball valve. I actually repeat the evacuate-then-pressurize-with-CO2 cycle 4 or 5 times since the vacuum sealer only drops the pressure to about .6 bar (absolute pressure). It only takes a minute or two and should greatly reduce the O2 (well less than 1% according to my math).

 

[YeastFeast]

I use my FoodSaver vacuum sealer (with a jerry-rigged ball valve connection) to evacuate the air through the ball valve. I actually repeat the evacuate-then-pressurize-with-CO2 cycle 4 or 5 times since the vacuum sealer only drops the pressure to about .6 bar (absolute pressure). It only takes a minute or two and should greatly reduce the O2 (well less than 1% according to my math).

Interesting technique with the FoodSaver.
I'm thinking about building something similar to yours. Could you just add (to yours) a simple $5.00 release valve like this:

Control Devices-ST25-1A ST Series Brass ASME Safety Valve, 60 psi Set Pressure, 1/4" Male NPT

 

[DavidWood2115]

Interesting technique with the FoodSaver.
I'm thinking about building something similar to yours. Could you just add (to yours) a simple $5.00 release valve like this:

Sure. You would need to cycle it more times to get the same reduction in O2 and it would use more CO2, but it would probably be faster and the total CO2 used is trivial. Go for it.

 

[boondocksaint]

Keep the best practices coming! I've never thought about pushing CO2 up through the bottom after dry hopping to keep them in suspension, but def plan to utilize that technique on the next IPA!

Quick PRV question...For those using them, do you drain the star-san from the cup prior to cold crashing? Or is there not the same concern for sanitizer being sucked in as with a regular airlock?

Thanks!

 

[Pacific Electric]

Keep the best practices coming! I've never thought about pushing CO2 up through the bottom after dry hopping to keep them in suspension, but def plan to utilize that technique on the next IPA!

Quick PRV question...For those using them, do you drain the star-san from the cup prior to cold crashing? Or is there not the same concern for sanitizer being sucked in as with a regular airlock?

Thanks!

You want to keep the vessel from ever getting close to a vacuum state. Some check it as they go and top up the pressure to 5 psi, others leave the gas connected and let it regulate itself.

 

[sleev-les]

Customer service is responsive, but the resolution is sitting with the engineering team, and there hasn't been a lot of visibility or communication. I've only heard they are trying to reconstruct the issue on their end.

The leak happens at 8-10 PSI at the gasket/band clamp. The leak will migrate from test to test as I move the clamp around (e.g. rotate from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock, flip it over, etc...) and it's not always the same place on the clamp. I've swapped out the spare lid gasket I had and have the same issue. No visible damage or warping to the lip or lid. My hypothesis is it's a band clamp issue.

So you must be one of the other people with the same issue Spike told me about haha. I jsut had the same problem. Lid leaked at the 12 o clock position if you re standing in front of it at the 6 o clock position. Would be an audible leak at the lid seal. Figured it was the lip bend. It was not in spec based on the picture they told me to refer to. They said they were going to get me a new one. Waited weeks and reached back out and they said they are trying to engineer the issue and see whats causing it. They said I wasn't the only one with the issue so they were looking more into if it was a larger concern. I was starting to get a bit agitated as it took almost a month to get the replacement finally out. They said they tested the replacement at 15 psi for a couple hours. I got it and immediately tested it. I filled it with water to limit the headspace. As I loaded with CO2 it started leaking in the same spot as the other one audibly. I tapped the lid a couple times and it stopped. Got it to 15 psi and no audible leak. Sprayed all gaskets and no bubbles. Now it did drop pressure, but have to assume the water is absorbing that and caused the issue. By the second day it slowed down in how quickly it dropped psi and only lost 1 psi over 2 hours. So a mix of the water absorbing gas and what I also think is a slow leak on my old style prv were the culprits. In the future, I'm going to use the keg lube trick since clearly the gasket adjusted into place once i tapped it. Keg lube will eliminate the binding. also waiting for my new PRV to ship.

I have to give Spike credit. They are pretty quick to respond when you reach out and are on point with the customer service.

 

[jturman35]

I’m looking to bump my batch size up for brewing NEIPA’s due to the amount of beer lost due to hop absorption. Anyone ferment 6 gallons in a cf5 without making a mess?

 

[Pacific Electric]

So you must be one of the other people with the same issue Spike told me about haha. I jsut had the same problem. Lid leaked at the 12 o clock position if you re standing in front of it at the 6 o clock position. Would be an audible leak at the lid seal. Figured it was the lip bend. It was not in spec based on the picture they told me to refer to. They said they were going to get me a new one. Waited weeks and reached back out and they said they are trying to engineer the issue and see whats causing it. They said I wasn't the only one with the issue so they were looking more into if it was a larger concern. I was starting to get a bit agitated as it took almost a month to get the replacement finally out. They said they tested the replacement at 15 psi for a couple hours. I got it and immediately tested it. I filled it with water to limit the headspace. As I loaded with CO2 it started leaking in the same spot as the other one audibly. I tapped the lid a couple times and it stopped. Got it to 15 psi and no audible leak. Sprayed all gaskets and no bubbles. Now it did drop pressure, but have to assume the water is absorbing that and caused the issue. By the second day it slowed down in how quickly it dropped psi and only lost 1 psi over 2 hours. So a mix of the water absorbing gas and what I also think is a slow leak on my old style prv were the culprits. In the future, I'm going to use the keg lube trick since clearly the gasket adjusted into place once i tapped it. Keg lube will eliminate the binding. also waiting for my new PRV to ship.

I have to give Spike credit. They are pretty quick to respond when you reach out and are on point with the customer service.

Yeah, I'm one of them. I haven't had time to update here until now. I did hear back after 3 weeks, and like you I was getting frustrated. What I was told was this was a supplier/material issue with the gasket, which is somehow causing poor gasket fitment and thus leaks. They offered me a temporary replacement, which sounds like you may have received, while they are waiting on properly spec'd lid gaskets (1-2 month lead time).

The temp lid has the gasket permanently siliconed in place, and they claim it's able to achieve the 15PSI seal. I opted not to have them ship me a temp lid and gasket (waste of resources for the couple of beers I could ferment in 1-2 months). Instead I will have to carb the slow way in my kegs. Not the ideal experience when buying a shiny new toy, but I now better understand why it was taking them some time to get to an answer.

Looking forward to my first conical fermentation this weekend!

 

[WesBrew]

for those using co2 in the bottom of the conical to churn up the dry hop addition, which port are you using? i've got a tc gas fitting but its 1.5. wondering if the transfer port would work with the racking tube facing down.

 

[YeastFeast]

for those using co2 in the bottom of the conical to churn up the dry hop addition, which port are you using? i've got a tc gas fitting but its 1.5. wondering if the transfer port would work with the racking tub facing down.

Yeah, that's my problem too, I only have a 1.5". Also interested in other's thoughts on this.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I got a 2” to 1.5” TC concentric adapter on Amazon.

 

[Sbe2]

I’m looking to bump my batch size up for brewing NEIPA’s due to the amount of beer lost due to hop absorption. Anyone ferment 6 gallons in a cf5 without making a mess?

I fill to 6 and never had an issue with the prv becoming blocked. It has crept up the lid a couple times. Usually I ferment under 5lbs of pressure which seems to keep the krausen in check.

 

[YeastFeast]

I got a 2” to 1.5” TC concentric adapter on Amazon.

Something like this I'm guessing?...

 

[ihavenonickname]

Yup exactly. Cheap and works. I got it so I can use my spike CIP on my brewtools lid with a 2” port actually.

 

[YeastFeast]

Yup exactly. Cheap and works. I got it so I can use my spike CIP on my brewtools lid with a 2” port actually.

New to TC stuff and never looked to see if something like this existed. Seems obvious now but this allows me to use all my 1.5" & 2" interchangeably. Nice.

 

[WesBrew]

are you using a stone on the inside or just the short gas post that comes on the fitting? . What is the process again, any issue with wort getting in the gas post, being at the bottom? gas on before you open the valve? I dunno, never did this before.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Gas on, 8 to 10 psi, open butterfly valve or valves if you have 2 depending on your setup. Then pull the prv a couple times, or set your spunding valve to release at a low pressure. I do it for a few minutes in the morning and again in the evening.

Edit.. no stone

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

One thing is also depending on your setup, if your elbow is full of oxygen before you start, what I do is set my psi to 5 or so and loosen the tc fitting on the elbow enough to blow the oxygen out with co2. I just do it for a few seconds to try and purge the oxygen before pushing it into the fermenter.