Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[Nate R]

@jturman35 :

The second keg (far right) is the serving keg which is empty, and also scrubbed of oxygen during the fermentation process.

Do you use this process to purge you 2nd keg of star san, OR have you already purged the star san rinse before you hook up this setup?
You have a very clever idea here.
Thanks.

 

[cbier60]

And how are you purging the keg with the DH? Are simply assuming that you are passing enough CO2 from the fermentation to purge a keg full of O2? You can never purge a keg full of O2 by mixing in CO2. You will continue to reduce the percent of O2, but cannot eliminate it, since the gasses mix.

 

[sibelman]

Have a look here for an interesting analysis of this kind of purging by the illustrious @doug293cz

Keg purging with active fermentation

 

[jturman35]

@jturman35 :

Do you use this process to purge you 2nd keg of star san, OR have you already purged the star san rinse before you hook up this setup?
You have a very clever idea here.
Thanks.

The serving keg has no star san, the gallon jib of star san acts as an air lock so oxygen can’t get back into the system. Fermentation produces enough co2 to purge the kegs.

 

[blainem]

I just finished reading ALL 74 pages of this thread... that was an exercise to say the least!

Tons of posts about oxygen free transfer of dry hops into the fermenter. I've done two batches in my new CF5 and they both came out beyond expectations... one was a Pliny the Elder clone and the other was a NEIPA hazy. I didn't do anything to restrict oxygen exposure when dry hopping with no discernible impact to the final product. In fact, in a back-to-back taste test with the Pliny and a fresh bottle of the real deal, they were almost an exact match.

While I don't hesitate in buying new products to make the best possible brew, part of me is thinking I'll just flow CO2 into the fermenter (at around 2 or 3 PSI) via the PRV gas post as I dump the dry hops in (I have the lid with the three 1.5" TC ports being a newer purchase). Am I missing something? With CO2 flowing out the open TC port on my lid, I honestly can't imagine any oxygen getting into the fermenter.

I don't have the room under or over the fermenter to add a bunch of hardware, so this is my plan, but I'm interested in hearing why this possibly won't work.

 

[Beholder]

I just finished reading ALL 74 pages of this thread... that was an exercise to say the least!

Tons of posts about oxygen free transfer of dry hops into the fermenter. I've done two batches in my new CF5 and they both came out beyond expectations... one was a Pliny the Elder clone and the other was a NEIPA hazy. I didn't do anything to restrict oxygen exposure when dry hopping with no discernible impact to the final product. In fact, in a back-to-back taste test with the Pliny and a fresh bottle of the real deal, they were almost an exact match.

While I don't hesitate in buying new products to make the best possible brew, part of me is thinking I'll just flow CO2 into the fermenter (at around 2 or 3 PSI) via the PRV gas post as I dump the dry hops in (I have the lid with the three 1.5" TC ports being a newer purchase). Am I missing something? With CO2 flowing out the open TC port on my lid, I honestly can't imagine any oxygen getting into the fermenter.

I don't have the room under or over the fermenter to add a bunch of hardware, so this is my plan, but I'm interested in hearing why this possibly won't work.

I don’t flow while adding (though not a bad idea, so might just switch to it!), but I do something similar in purging the headspace afterward by filling and pulling the pressure relief on my spunding valve. Have long lived hops flavor and aroma following this process.

 

[jturman35]

I always have a hell of a time getting 6-10 oz of hops out of the conical which is why I do a cool crash then closed transfer to a keg with hop spider. So much easier.

 

[Pacific Electric]

Took a couple weeks, but I finally made my way through this thread. Thanks to everyone for sharing your processes and for the popcorn material as well. Lots of good tidbits to incorporate into my processes and figure out over the next few brews.

I've been working with Spike the last few weeks to try to resolve a lid leak, hope they get me a resolution soon so I can brew this weekend!

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Took a couple weeks, but I finally made my way through this thread. Thanks to everyone for sharing your processes and for the popcorn material as well. Lots of good tidbits to incorporate into my processes and figure out over the next few brews.

I've been working with Spike the last few weeks to try to resolve a lid leak, hope they get me a resolution soon so I can brew this weekend!

Taking a few weeks to get through this thread seems reasonable but waiting a few weeks for Spike to resolve your leaking lid issue doesn't.

I read through a lot of these posts too and got some great info. I bought the CF10 several years ago and have not regretted the purchase, but I didn't have any issues with it as some of the others have had.

Making a purchase like this is a big investment, not being able to use it is a shame. Poor customer service is even worse. I hope they resolve your issue real soon.

 

[Pacific Electric]

Taking a few weeks to get through this thread seems reasonable but waiting a few weeks for Spike to resolve your leaking lid issue doesn't.

I read through a lot of these posts too and got some great info. I bought the CF10 several years ago and have not regretted the purchase, but I didn't have any issues with it as some of the others have had.

Making a purchase like this is a big investment, not being able to use it is a shame. Poor customer service is even worse. I hope they resolve your issue real soon.

Yeah, I'm trying to be patient, with the 4th holiday in there and knowing people take extended vacations around this time, but I'm surprised at the time it's taking for this. At this point it should be a straight forward - couple of things to check/try with the lid and rim.

 

[jturman35]

The picture below is a prime example of why I no longer DH in the conical. This is at 10days with my NEIPA. I have 10oz of DH sitting in the keg with hop spider sitting in the keezer. Bet it didn’t take a quart of wasted beer to get down below the pick up tube. If I had dry hopped in the conical it take probably at least a gallon of waste to get the beer low enough to transfer to the keg. I will crash this around 55 for 24 hours before transferring to the DH keg.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Yeah, I'm trying to be patient, with the 4th holiday in there and knowing people take extended vacations around this time, but I'm surprised at the time it's taking for this. At this point it should be a straight forward - couple of things to check/try with the lid and rim.

Spikes customer service has always been stellar in my experience.. that said I would maybe reach out to them again. In the meantime, what are you experiencing as a leak? Where at? Under pressure? What does your setup look like and how does the gasket appear?

 

[Pacific Electric]

Spikes customer service has always been stellar in my experience.. that said I would maybe reach out to them again. In the meantime, what are you experiencing as a leak? Where at? Under pressure? What does your setup look like and how does the gasket appear?

Customer service is responsive, but the resolution is sitting with the engineering team, and there hasn't been a lot of visibility or communication. I've only heard they are trying to reconstruct the issue on their end.

The leak happens at 8-10 PSI at the gasket/band clamp. The leak will migrate from test to test as I move the clamp around (e.g. rotate from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock, flip it over, etc...) and it's not always the same place on the clamp. I've swapped out the spare lid gasket I had and have the same issue. No visible damage or warping to the lip or lid. My hypothesis is it's a band clamp issue.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I see, yeah that makes sense. Sorry to hear your struggles, hopefully it is resolved soon.

 

[WesBrew]

Customer service is responsive, but the resolution is sitting with the engineering team, and there hasn't been a lot of visibility or communication. I've only heard they are trying to reconstruct the issue on their end.

The leak happens at 8-10 PSI at the gasket/band clamp. The leak will migrate from test to test as I move the clamp around (e.g. rotate from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock, flip it over, etc...) and it's not always the same place on the clamp. I've swapped out the spare lid gasket I had and have the same issue. No visible damage or warping to the lip or lid. My hypothesis is it's a band clamp issue.

Can you put a stright edge or level around several places on the lip of the fermenter and on the lid to rule those out? Maybe take the gasket out too and run something around the groove to see if theres anything abnormal.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Customer service is responsive, but the resolution is sitting with the engineering team, and there hasn't been a lot of visibility or communication. I've only heard they are trying to reconstruct the issue on their end.

The leak happens at 8-10 PSI at the gasket/band clamp. The leak will migrate from test to test as I move the clamp around (e.g. rotate from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock, flip it over, etc...) and it's not always the same place on the clamp. I've swapped out the spare lid gasket I had and have the same issue. No visible damage or warping to the lip or lid. My hypothesis is it's a band clamp issue.

Yup, seems like you have zoomed in on the issue. Maybe a junk lid clamp that Spike should replace, send back your old one to them and they can play around with it.

Like Bailey Mountain Brewer said, I hope they get it resolved so you can get back to brewing. Good Luck!

 

[Yesfan]

Yesfan,

Here is a picture of my set up. The first keg next to the conical has the dry hop charge which is sitting all through the fermentation process. Note the conical clear tube is hooked up to the keg "out" post with the dip tube in order to push co2 through the entire keg and out the top through the gas post which runs to keg #2 out post.

I attached the second picture of the DH Keg with hop spider with loose hops which gets better contact with the beer, this is what it looks like after the dry hop process. The second keg (far right) is the serving keg which is empty, and also scrubbed of oxygen during the fermentation process. Remember NEIPA's hate o2!

When fermentation is done i will transfer from conical to DH keg (10-14days) and usually i try to move it to the keezer so i can cool it down some because most NEIPA's folks DH a little cooler 50-60ish deg or so. I don't like the idea of the hops sitting during the 10-14 days but this limits the most oxygen. I haven't bought all the stuff to make a site glass dry hopper, too much $$$, so this is what i have been doing.

Very nice setup! I may try to copy that. The grommet for the hop spider, same size as on a typical fermenting bucket lid? Never thought the keg's dip tube fit so snug like that. Ingenious!

 

[jturman35]

I had to drill the hole in the hop spider for the diptube. Any oring that will fit around the dip tube will work. This is just to keep hops from getting past the hole in the lid. If you drill the hole small enough may not even need it.

 

[Pacific Electric]

Can you put a stright edge or level around several places on the lip of the fermenter and on the lid to rule those out? Maybe take the gasket out too and run something around the groove to see if theres anything abnormal.

I just did this, thanks for the recommendation. There is an ever so slight deflection in the lid, a couple of mm at best. The lip seems to be flat. I'll bring this up to Spike. Thanks for the suggestion.

Yup, seems like you have zoomed in on the issue. Maybe a junk lid clamp that Spike should replace, send back your old one to them and they can play around with it.

Like Bailey Mountain Brewer said, I hope they get it resolved so you can get back to brewing. Good Luck!

Thanks, I'm sure they will resolve this soon.

 

[ihavenonickname]

The picture below is a prime example of why I no longer DH in the conical. This is at 10days with my NEIPA. I have 10oz of DH sitting in the keg with hop spider sitting in the keezer. Bet it didn’t take a quart of wasted beer to get down below the pick up tube. If I had dry hopped in the conical it take probably at least a gallon of waste to get the beer low enough to transfer to the keg. I will crash this around 55 for 24 hours before transferring to the DH keg.

Man thanks for posting, I'm with you and its good to hear I'm no the only one! Dumping out big dry hops is a big pain in the butt, you loose a bunch of beer, and its RISKY! If you don't dump enough, crash long enough and put the dip tube high enough you clog the poppet on the serving keg and its just a disaster from there (ie there is not a great oxygen free solution for salvaging the transfer.) Granted if you do all those things right its a breeze and a beautiful thing.

I thought I was the only bothered by this so glad you are also working on some solutions. When I was fermenting in kegs (usually a 10g keg) I did it just like you do and had great results. Floating dip tube in the kegmenter and I got the filter from utahbiodeisel that worked well for the dry hop keg. I got the CF10 thinking it would be a big upgrade but so far it really hasn't, its fun and cool but my process is more complicated, not better.

What I've come up with on the CF10 is slightly different: I added a floating dip tube (a double filtered floatIT) with a a bal lock liquid out post on a 1.5" port on the lid. Then I just pressure transfer out the top like its a keg. I still get to crash out dry hops and the floatIT get all the beer above the hop cone without risk of clog or excess beer waste. I'll try to add a picture but I think you get it. No I don't get to easily rouse the hops like you do by shaking the keg (which I think this is underrated!) but i've got one less keg to clean.

On the other hand, my method is kinda a waste of a conical (except I still get to harvest yeast, but big woop) I could be doing everthing else with my 10g kegmenter... I miss that thin never should have sold it!

 

[YeastFeast]

The picture below is a prime example of why I no longer DH in the conical. This is at 10days with my NEIPA. I have 10oz of DH sitting in the keg with hop spider sitting in the keezer. Bet it didn’t take a quart of wasted beer to get down below the pick up tube. If I had dry hopped in the conical it take probably at least a gallon of waste to get the beer low enough to transfer to the keg. I will crash this around 55 for 24 hours before transferring to the DH keg.

I just got my CF5 and haven't even used it yet. So looking at the picture, what exactly is the issue here, I don't get it? Why not dry hop in the conical?

 

[k-daddy]

Customer service is responsive, but the resolution is sitting with the engineering team, and there hasn't been a lot of visibility or communication. I've only heard they are trying to reconstruct the issue on their end.

The leak happens at 8-10 PSI at the gasket/band clamp. The leak will migrate from test to test as I move the clamp around (e.g. rotate from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock, flip it over, etc...) and it's not always the same place on the clamp. I've swapped out the spare lid gasket I had and have the same issue. No visible damage or warping to the lip or lid. My hypothesis is it's a band clamp issue.

Not sure if this has already beed suggested but I now apply a thin coat of keg-lub to the gasket after noticing a slight pressure drop when fermenting @ 10psi. It's been holding tight ever since. Good luck.

 

[jturman35]

Yeastfeast the problem is getting the 10oz of hops out of the conical so you can rack the beer into the keg. I’m not sure if you have the racking arm but that is a must have item.

It can be done but requires many dumps and you end up loosing quite a bit of beer in the process. Any other beer besides a NEIPA I have no issues whatsoever.

 

[WesBrew]

Not sure if everyone is doing this but that band clamp really needs to be cranked down hard until it wont turn. gaps in the bands should only be 1/4" wide.
-some pressure should blow anything out the bottom

 

[YeastFeast]

Yeastfeast the problem is getting the 10oz of hops out of the conical so you can rack the beer into the keg. I’m not sure if you have the racking arm but that is a must have item.

It can be done but requires many dumps and you end up loosing quite a bit of beer in the process. Any other beer besides a NEIPA I have no issues whatsoever.

OK, I see what you're saying. I do have the racking arm. I plan to do a lot of NEIPAs so I guess I'm going to find out! Thanks for the response.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

OK, I see what you're saying. I do have the racking arm. I plan to do a lot of NEIPAs so I guess I'm going to find out! Thanks for the response.

I use a cf15 so the results may vary but I will just give an example of what I do for my neipa. I dry hop in my conical, before that I soft crash and dump yeast. I dry hop at 55f and rouse the hops via co2 in the bottom port. Come time to keg I cold crash for 2 days, the past 2 neipas I've done I have left the dry hops in so my only dump was of yeast before dryhopping. I set my racking arm around 10 - 11 o'clock position and I purge the transfer line a couple times until the racking arm clears of hop debris. I use and inline filter so I don't clog any poppets. I have filled 3 kegs completely doing it this way the past 2 times, I fill my kegs by weight. I also fill my cf15 to the rim when I brew a neipa because there will be losses no matter how you go about it. Yes we try to limit them but its inevitable, even with the dry hop keg, if you think about it, the amount of space taken up by the hop spider with hops in it is also a loss to final volume, though probably minimal. And I will add I think that is a great idea and a sound process, not knocking it at all, just putting another option out there that I have found success with.
Cheers!

 

[YeastFeast]

I use a cf15 so the results may vary but I will just give an example of what I do for my neipa. I dry hop in my conical, before that I soft crash and dump yeast. I dry hop at 55f and rouse the hops via co2 in the bottom port. Come time to keg I cold crash for 2 days, the past 2 neipas I've done I have left the dry hops in so my only dump was of yeast before dryhopping. I set my racking arm around 10 - 11 o'clock position and I purge the transfer line a couple times until the racking arm clears of hop debris. I use and inline filter so I don't clog any poppets. I have filled 3 kegs completely doing it this way the past 2 times, I fill my kegs by weight. I also fill my cf15 to the rim when I brew a neipa because there will be losses no matter how you go about it. Yes we try to limit them but its inevitable, even with the dry hop keg, if you think about it, the amount of space taken up by the hop spider with hops in it is also a loss to final volume, though probably minimal. And I will add I think that is a great idea and a sound process, not knocking it at all, just putting another option out there that I have found success with.
Cheers!

Appreciate the feedback, I can use all the help I can get. At least in the near future (because I'm obsessed with making a great one), I make mostly NEIPAs and one of the main reasons I purchased a conical (CF5) was to dry hop in it and to do oxygen free transfers. That's why I was so interested in the picture @jturman35 posted. In other words, I'm trying to do everything as oxygen free as possible so my NEIPAs don't turn brown/grey after 3 weeks.
I have the "parts" to drop hops as oxygen free as possible: lid > ball valve > sight glass > spike all-in-one PRV...so hopefully that works.
Cheers!

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Very nice, looks great! Here's a pic of my latest neipa that has been in the keg for 6 weeks. All thanks to the hbt community.

 

[YeastFeast]

Very nice, looks great! Here's a pic of my latest neipa that has been in the keg for 6 weeks. All thanks to the hbt community.
View attachment 774790

6 weeks! Beautiful!

 

[jturman35]

I use a cf15 so the results may vary but I will just give an example of what I do for my neipa. I dry hop in my conical, before that I soft crash and dump yeast. I dry hop at 55f and rouse the hops via co2 in the bottom port. Come time to keg I cold crash for 2 days, the past 2 neipas I've done I have left the dry hops in so my only dump was of yeast before dryhopping. I set my racking arm around 10 - 11 o'clock position and I purge the transfer line a couple times until the racking arm clears of hop debris. I use and inline filter so I don't clog any poppets. I have filled 3 kegs completely doing it this way the past 2 times, I fill my kegs by weight. I also fill my cf15 to the rim when I brew a neipa because there will be losses no matter how you go about it. Yes we try to limit them but its inevitable, even with the dry hop keg, if you think about it, the amount of space taken up by the hop spider with hops in it is also a loss to final volume, though probably minimal. And I will add I think that is a great idea and a sound process, not knocking it at all, just putting another option out there that I have found success with.
Cheers!

Yes but keep in mind you have a CF15. Imagine what 10oz of DH looks like in a CF5. I’m not saying it’s impossible but it’s been so much easier when I started DH in the keg.

I may try again on my next NEIPA but my main reason for my process is I have very minimal o2 exposure by doing a closed transfer to DH keg for two days before doing final closed transfer to the serving keg.


Yeastfeast what did the DH site glass combo set you back $ ?