Spike Complete System

[bailey mountain brewer]

I also have the same issue on my spike 30gal system. i have replaced orings and tweaked the coil a couple times. i also believe the issue is with pressure and having the valves open. i have debated changing them to the ss compression fittings for this reason but i believe i will pay better attention to the valves on my next couple brewdays and see if that straightens it out for me. such a frustrating thing on brewday when your getting ready to dough in and realize the volume in the mash tun had dropped. i watch it closely now but the first time it happened i had lost almost 2 gal before i opened the lid.

 

[NCBeerMedic]

I remedied mine by opening one of the valves and then taking the handle off. Now, no more pressure build up

 

[juggabrew]

I don’t have TC fittings. I have spare o-rings on hand if needed. Pretty sure coil was seated all the way but will double check. Other than the small amount of residue in the HLT it seemed to work OK once I reseated it.

Still don’t like the way the coil sags slightly and rests on the element. Will likely order some compression fittings to have on hand just in case. Will also look into tweaking/bending the coil slightly if needed.

Thanks!

I would contact spike and see what they say. I wouldn’t like it resting in the element either. Considering the cost of this setup I wouldn’t be happy at all if that’s how mine was sitting.

 

[Bohern]

I don’t have TC fittings. I have spare o-rings on hand if needed. Pretty sure coil was seated all the way but will double check. Other than the small amount of residue in the HLT it seemed to work OK once I reseated it.

Still don’t like the way the coil sags slightly and rests on the element. Will likely order some compression fittings to have on hand just in case. Will also look into tweaking/bending the coil slightly if needed.

Thanks!

mine does not touch the element at all, I have a good 1" plus of clearance on mine.

 

[Deric]

Update:

Pulled the element and the coil. Put a little keg lube on the coil to make sure it seated. Put it back together - no change. Pulled the coil completely out of the kettle and noticed one end is slightly angled away from the coil. We had that end at the bottom which put the coil closer to the element. The other end is pretty much straight. Flipped the coil over and now it clears the element by ~1"

Happy with that!!! Ordered a couple of compression fittings to have on hand. Not sure if I'll swap them right away or wait to see...

Either way, happy for now!

 

[Bohern]

Update:

Pulled the element and the coil. Put a little keg lube on the coil to make sure it seated. Put it back together - no change. Pulled the coil completely out of the kettle and noticed one end is slightly angled away from the coil. We had that end at the bottom which put the coil closer to the element. The other end is pretty much straight. Flipped the coil over and now it clears the element by ~1"

Happy with that!!! Ordered a couple of compression fittings to have on hand. Not sure if I'll swap them right away or wait to see...

Either way, happy for now!

Good job, I thought something had to be off with the coil sitting on the element. Glad you got it figured out in the end.

Happy Brewing

 

[juggabrew]

Anyone wonder why spike puts their mash in port on the opposite side of the HLT? Looking at other herms setups most have the return valve on HLT side with a short hose. I feel like this would contribute to a lot of heat loss.

I was thinking I could drill a new return port if this makes sense/worth it.

 

[Gozie Boy]

I've wondered the same thing, and had I to do it over I would have specified this with Spike. Having said this, I don't think it's worth the time and effort to retrofit another fitting (especially if you are using TC). Easier to wrap some HD insulation around your hose if you're that worried about heat loss, but don't think it's really that big an issue IMO. (If interested, you could measure the delT with a temp probe to check it out at different rates).

 

[Bohern]

Anyone wonder why spike puts their mash in port on the opposite side of the HLT? Looking at other herms setups most have the return valve on HLT side with a short hose. I feel like this would contribute to a lot of heat loss.

I was thinking I could drill a new return port if this makes sense/worth it.

my only thought is they wanted the return flow to go away from the pickup tube?? That is all I can think of anyways.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Anyone wonder why spike puts their mash in port on the opposite side of the HLT? Looking at other herms setups most have the return valve on HLT side with a short hose. I feel like this would contribute to a lot of heat loss.

I was thinking I could drill a new return port if this makes sense/worth it.

This is done so the HERMS our fitting and mash in aren’t touching each other. It makes opening/closing valves as well as making connections easy without busting a knuckle. We use 4’ and 6’ hoses and the 4’ hose reaches easily. Any heat loses are completely negligible.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Anyone wonder why spike puts their mash in port on the opposite side of the HLT? Looking at other herms setups most have the return valve on HLT side with a short hose. I feel like this would contribute to a lot of heat loss.

I was thinking I could drill a new return port if this makes sense/worth it.

I actually have mine set up opposite of how spike does as in my hlt is on the left and the bk is on the right. i didnt do this for the purpose that you are talking about it is just how i have my brewery set up and it worked out better for me this way, that being said with the 30gal system i have the pumps in the middle of my brew table and use the 4foot and 6foot hoses accordingly. so even with mash port on the same side as my hlt i use a 4 foot hose and even this time of year when my basement is 50-55 degrees i dont have a problem with heat loss.

 

[Bohern]

I actually have mine set up opposite of how spike does as in my hlt is on the left and the bk is on the right. i didnt do this for the purpose that you are talking about it is just how i have my brewery set up and it worked out better for me this way, that being said with the 30gal system i have the pumps in the middle of my brew table and use the 4foot and 6foot hoses accordingly. so even with mash port on the same side as my hlt i use a 4 foot hose and even this time of year when my basement is 50-55 degrees i dont have a problem with heat loss.View attachment 665435

Nice looking rig and setup

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

thanks, i love brewing on it.

 

[Gozie Boy]

This is done so the HERMS our fitting and mash in aren’t touching each other. It makes opening/closing valves as well as making connections easy without busting a knuckle. We use 4’ and 6’ hoses and the 4’ hose reaches easily. Any heat loses are completely negligible.

Duh - fitting/valve clash! Yeah, I actually remember that now...

 

[Deric]

Brewed again today and the HERMS coil is still leaking. This time worse than before. Cleaned out the kettle and checked o-rings and they were fine. Decided to go ahead and swap the fittings for compression fittings and ran into a new issue. The HERMS coil ends are only round the last 1/2" or so and I can't get the lock nut on the coil far enough to get the coil seated all the way in the fitting before tightening it down.

 

[Bohern]

Brewed again today and the HERMS coil is still leaking. This time worse than before. Cleaned out the kettle and checked o-rings and they were fine. Decided to go ahead and swap the fittings for compression fittings and ran into a new issue. The HERMS coil ends are only round the last 1/2" or so and I can't get the lock nut on the coil far enough to get the coil seated all the way in the fitting before tightening it down.

sorry to hear that man

 

[Deric]

Not sure what my next step is... I'm thinking install new o-rings (since I have them already) and try again. Even though I like the idea of quickly/easily removing the coil I'd hoped compression fittings would just solve the problem.

 

[juggabrew]

Not sure what my next step is... I'm thinking install new o-rings (since I have them already) and try again. Even though I like the idea of quickly/easily removing the coil I'd hoped compression fittings would just solve the problem.

I forgot if you mentioned exactly where it’s leaking. I just noticed a small leak on my last batch where it was leaking from the threads of the compression fitting. I tightened it up with a wrench and it fixed the leak.

I’m assuming yours is leaking from the inside where the o-ring is but just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[Deric]

Not sure where it leaked from before but this time it was leaking from around the o-ring on the output end of the coil. The other end of the coil seemed ok.

 

[juggabrew]

Not sure where it leaked from before but this time it was leaking from around the o-ring on the output end of the coil. The other end of the coil seemed ok.

That sucks man. I’m not a metal expert but could it be possible there’s a crack in the piping? Trying to brainstorm...

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

if your pipe isnt round where the oring sets on the pipe once its in the fitting the entire way that will cause a leak also. i have the same issue with mine though luckily on my last brewday i didnt have a leak but my pipe is not perfect and i just ordered the ss compression fittings that i plan to install before my next brewday. if i have the same issue you do then the only other thing to do is cut the section off that isnt round and have to bend the tubing to get a good round piece for it to seal on. 1/2 ss tubing wont be fun to work with even with a tubing bender but ill make it work if it comes to that.

 

[Bohern]

Not sure where it leaked from before but this time it was leaking from around the o-ring on the output end of the coil. The other end of the coil seemed ok.

Mine leaked the first time I used it. to fix it I did the following.

1 - I took it completely out
2 - Inserted the bottom tube first and seated it fully
3 - Interted the top tube and bottomed it out

Not sure if that is correct but I basically followed the assembly and watched closely what they did in that. Solved my issue

 

[Deric]

Mine leaked the first time I used it. to fix it I did the following.

1 - I took it completely out
2 - Inserted the bottom tube first and seated it fully
3 - Interted the top tube and bottomed it out

Not sure if that is correct but I basically followed the assembly and watched closely what they did in that. Solved my issue

That's what i've done for now (and replaced the o-rings) and it passed initial leak test.

 

[Deric]

if your pipe isnt round where the oring sets on the pipe once its in the fitting the entire way that will cause a leak also. i have the same issue with mine though luckily on my last brewday i didnt have a leak but my pipe is not perfect and i just ordered the ss compression fittings that i plan to install before my next brewday. if i have the same issue you do then the only other thing to do is cut the section off that isnt round and have to bend the tubing to get a good round piece for it to seal on. 1/2 ss tubing wont be fun to work with even with a tubing bender but ill make it work if it comes to that.

I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that it's round where the o-rings seal but not much farther than that. Would love to hear if the compression fittings work out for you.

 

[CottonBrew]

Brewed again today and the HERMS coil is still leaking. This time worse than before. Cleaned out the kettle and checked o-rings and they were fine. Decided to go ahead and swap the fittings for compression fittings and ran into a new issue. The HERMS coil ends are only round the last 1/2" or so and I can't get the lock nut on the coil far enough to get the coil seated all the way in the fitting before tightening it down.

Hi Deric,
I had the same compression nut issue when I installed my compression fittings. I VERY carefully used my dremel tool to grind areas of the herms coil that interfered with the nut. It didn't take much grinding and I removed material from multiple interfering places to minimize thinning of tubing wall. For me, the ferrule installed far enough to properly seat in the compression fitting without grinding. You should verify the ferrule will properly seat before grinding the herms. I suspect the compression fitting will not work if the tube is not round in the ferrule area.

It is nearly impossible to bend tubing at sharp 90 degree angles like the Spike herms and not get some tube flattening. Tube flattening could contribute to herms leaking.

I like the Spike push to connect connectors for the MT and boil kettle where they are well suited and any leaking will cause no issues. I have been able to get most of my push to connect fittings to leak if I restrict the flow on the output of the connection. I typically sparge at a low rate (~0.25 gal/min) and believe restricting the flow at the MT inlet is why I had issues with my herms leaking. No leaking after 34 brews since I switched to stainless compression fittings. Also my herms coil doesn't droop and is solidly connected to the HLT.

Good luck fixing your problem.

CottonBrew

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

i plan to get my compression fittings on before my next brew day so i will update how that goes then. also when i recirculate or run my sparge i control the flow rate with the ball valve at the exit of the pump that way i am not putting pressure on the herms fittings. that has seemed to help a bit for me. on another subject and maybe some one has touched on this already and i havent seen it but has anyone created a better way to shower the grain bed on the spike system. they say to attach a hose and let it lay on top of the bed to disperse the water across the grain bed, well this works very little if at all. i am looking into making a tube that will go straight from push to connect fitting and reach to the center of my mash tun with a 90degree fitting and something to create a shower effect over the grain bed. any ideas out there or things that have been done?

custom sparge arm is what im looking for. duh, couldnt think of it.

 

[Bohern]

That's what i've done for now (and replaced the o-rings) and it passed initial leak test.

Good luck man, hope it solves your issue

 

[Deric]

...on another subject and maybe some one has touched on this already and i havent seen it but has anyone created a better way to shower the grain bed on the spike system. they say to attach a hose and let it lay on top of the bed to disperse the water across the grain bed, well this works very little if at all. i am looking into making a tube that will go straight from push to connect fitting and reach to the center of my mash tun with a 90degree fitting and something to create a shower effect over the grain bed. any ideas out there or things that have been done?

custom sparge arm is what im looking for. duh, couldnt think of it.

I used the hose for the first few batches and it worked fine but swapped it out for a Locline setup from Brewhardware.com I use it a lot like the hose but can adjust were it sits on the gran bed and it doesn't sink. Brewhardware also has a Locline sparge ring you can add.

 

[Deric]

Good luck man, hope it solves your issue

Thanks! Me too.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I used the hose for the first few batches and it worked fine but swapped it out for a Locline setup from Brewhardware.com I use it a lot like the hose but can adjust were it sits on the gran bed and it doesn't sink. Brewhardware also has a Locline sparge ring you can add.

Cool, I'll check that out. Thanks

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that it's round where the o-rings seal but not much farther than that. Would love to hear if the compression fittings work out for you.

well i got my new compressions and they worked good for me, got them on good and straight and they sealed. was very happy with how they worked. havent decided what my approach will be as far as keeping the coil clean. will still run pbw through it and all after brewday but i did like being able to easily remove the coil. i suppose every so many brews i will remove it and just get replacement ferrules for the compression fittings. that being said i had a different issue come about which was my fault. i was in the middle of my sparge and all the sudden i smell burning... come to realize the plug that goes on to the heating element is melting. luckily my water water was hot enough to finish my sparge but i cut power right away and unplugged the element. i noticed some water around it and assumed that when i lifted the lid the condensation from the lid found its way on to the connection and caused a melt down. i ordered a new plug for the end of my wire and got it all wired back up, i cleaned up the prongs on the element and they had melted plastic on them. i have not fired it back up yet, i wonder if there is any other way to test it to make sure the element is ok without taking the chance of melting another plug? any suggestions or should i just put some water in the tank and turn the element on and watch it closely to make sure all is well?

 

[CottonBrew]

well i got my new compressions and they worked good for me, got them on good and straight and they sealed. was very happy with how they worked. havent decided what my approach will be as far as keeping the coil clean. will still run pbw through it and all after brewday but i did like being able to easily remove the coil. i suppose every so many brews i will remove it and just get replacement ferrules for the compression fittings. that being said i had a different issue come about which was my fault. i was in the middle of my sparge and all the sudden i smell burning... come to realize the plug that goes on to the heating element is melting. luckily my water water was hot enough to finish my sparge but i cut power right away and unplugged the element. i noticed some water around it and assumed that when i lifted the lid the condensation from the lid found its way on to the connection and caused a melt down. i ordered a new plug for the end of my wire and got it all wired back up, i cleaned up the prongs on the element and they had melted plastic on them. i have not fired it back up yet, i wonder if there is any other way to test it to make sure the element is ok without taking the chance of melting another plug? any suggestions or should i just put some water in the tank and turn the element on and watch it closely to make sure all is well?

Herms cleaning - I seldom clean my the outside of my compression mounted herms coil. I have never removed it. Immediately after draining the HLT, I always dry the HLT interior and run my drying cloth between the herms coil tubing.

If your heating element plug is melted, it is likely caused by the connector not being fully or properly seated on the heating element. Failing to "twist lock" the connector could cause this problem. A high electrical resistance between contacts is created when connectors are not fully mated. The high heating element current flowing through an improperly mated connector causes heat that could caused the connector to melt.

Water penetration in the connector could cause a higher contact resistance, but with a properly mated connector water is an unlikely cause for melting. It is important that all of the melted plastic be removed from the heating element contacts. Residual plastic residue will increase the contact resistance, generating heat, and you are back to the original issue. I would gently scrape the melted plastic from the element and try not to scratch the contact coating. Non-metallic scrubbers (scotch brite pads) work well for the final bit of contact cleaning.

It is good to be cautious when testing after a failure and repair. If the heating element was working when you powered down, it is probably still functional. Monitoring element current on power-up is a good way to verify a good element and connection. My element draws about 22 amps. Next I would monitor the cable connector for excessive heat. A little heat is OK, but if the connector is too hot to hold by hand, something is not right.

One last point. Many connectors are not rated for high ambient temperatures. Heating element connectors rated at lower ambient temperature provide less failure margin when the unexpected happens on brew day.

I hope you fixed the problem. Good luck with your testing.

Cheers,
CottonBrew

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Thanks for the suggestions. i cleaned the contacts on the heating element until they shined again. maybe my connector wasnt locked in the entire way, it is certainly a possibility. i got everything put back together last night and ill give it a go later today and see how things go. i will also keep in mind what you mentioned about the herms coil, that makes me feel better about leaving it all together. where do you test to see what your element is drawing? i have a meter from my mechanic days but i only do minor electrical work when it comes to the house. thanks again

 

[CottonBrew]

Thanks for the suggestions. i cleaned the contacts on the heating element until they shined again. maybe my connector wasnt locked in the entire way, it is certainly a possibility. i got everything put back together last night and ill give it a go later today and see how things go. i will also keep in mind what you mentioned about the herms coil, that makes me feel better about leaving it all together. where do you test to see what your element is drawing? i have a meter from my mechanic days but i only do minor electrical work when it comes to the house. thanks again

Most multimeters do not measure large values of current. You need a multimeter with an AC current clamp which looks like a cloths pin and clamps around one of the hot wires feeding the heating element. If you don't have a current clamp, no worries, just monitor the connector by feel to verify it is not getting too hot to touch or about to melt.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

ok, yes my meter does not have the clamp but i have seen those types of meters, maybe ill pick one up at some point. i did do a test run and everything went smoothly. the plug did not get hot and i heated the water to 180 to do a cleaning. i will continue to monitor it closely during brewdays. the twist lock feature seems to only twist a small amount but it is definitely locked in place, i will also be sure that is the case every time. i have been collecting spare parts as things like this come up. when i bought the new plug to replace the melted one i grabbed 2 of them. i think i may order a spare heating element to have on hand in case of another issue during a brew day.

 

[CottonBrew]

ok, yes my meter does not have the clamp but i have seen those types of meters, maybe ill pick one up at some point. i did do a test run and everything went smoothly. the plug did not get hot and i heated the water to 180 to do a cleaning. i will continue to monitor it closely during brewdays. the twist lock feature seems to only twist a small amount but it is definitely locked in place, i will also be sure that is the case every time. i have been collecting spare parts as things like this come up. when i bought the new plug to replace the melted one i grabbed 2 of them. i think i may order a spare heating element to have on hand in case of another issue during a brew day.

Great job fixing your problem! Spares are always good to have on hand. Good luck with your next brew day.
Cheers
CottonBrew

 

[Deric]

Did some testing today. Sealed fine for a while but when I restricted the output the bottom of the coil started to work it's way out of the fitting. Tried playing with the compression fittings again but there is no way the lock nut will go on the coil far enough on one of the ends. Pic attached.

I had a near new coil from Bobby at Brewhardware in my converted keggle that I should have kept but I actually thought that Spike's coil would be a better fit for a Spike HLT.


Edit to add: I have never contacted Spike about this until today. They replied VERY quickly (on a Saturday) and we're exchanging emails. Will update with any progress.

 

[Gozie Boy]

Did some testing today. Sealed fine for a while but when I restricted the output the bottom of the coil started to work it's way out of the fitting. Tried playing with the compression fittings again but there is no way the lock nut will go on the coil far enough on one of the ends. Pic attached.

I had a near new coil from Bobby at Brewhardware in my converted keggle that I should have kept but I actually thought that Spike's coil would be a better fit for a Spike HLT.
View attachment 667761

Edit to add: I have never contacted Spike about this until today. They replied VERY quickly (on a Saturday) and we're exchanging emails. Will update with any progress.

As I mentioned awhile back, do NOT allow your HERMS coil to pressurize, through thermal expansion of trapped liquid (e.g. having valves on either side of it closed and then allowing the trapped fluid to be heated) or otherwise. That will guarantee that your coil will try to pull out of its fittings. I have made this "idiot proof" by removing the HLT's top butterfly valve, and also the valve at the top of the MT to which the HERMS flows (otherwise you can still "close" the HERMS system if that valve gets closed). You can still close the bottom butterfly valve on the HERMS if needed, or control the volume through the pump's flow controller. You do not need these two valves anyway.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I agree with Gozie Boy on this. i still have my valve there but intend to remove it from the top (output). i have not closed that valve for a few test runs and a brewday and have not had any issue since even with having the compression fittings in place i still feel this will cause issues. however i am very curios to see how spike responds as i have never contacted them about it either, please do keep us posted.

 

[Ghostnuke]

I know this will be somewhat variable, but what boil off rate is everyone getting on the 20 gallon system?