Spike Brewing System, Channeling and Cold Crash Issues

[danrb]

We have just finished our 7th batch with the Spike System. Right now I'm making the best beers in my 30 years of home brewing. This batch actually hit a 92% efficiency and fermented in 3 days. It's an amazing system, no complaints, just a couple of things we're looking for improvements on.

- The mash we have seen channeling where one side of the grain bed has no grains all the way to the false bottom. How have others dealt with this?

- Fermentation cold crashing is not clarifying the beer. We are using a spike fermentor with the heating/cooling package. We see no improvements in Cold Crashing the beer to 36F for two weeks. Looking at the sight glass we see yeast clumps going both up and down. Natural currents seem to develop due to temperature differences. When we put the same beer in a refrigerated Keg it starts to clarify in a day.

Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

 

[mongoose33]

Channeling: I have a recirc system through a RIMS. During the mash, I will stir a couple times, usually 15 minutes and maybe 30 minutes (I'm reading a refractometer to see how my conversion is going).

What I discovered is that I need to turn off the pump when I stir, BUT, once done stirring, I need to let it sit for a minute or so for the grain bed to resettle. If I don't do that, and turn on the pump right away, I risk creating channels and there I am. So it's turn off pump, gentle stir, wait a minute or so, then reengage the pump.

Could that be something going in here, i.e., one you get channeling, it's not going away, so if you have channels at the outset, you won't improve.

BUT--if you're hitting 92 percent efficiency, how much channeling can you have, and how bad can it be? So I'm struggling to understand what the issue is. Or is it that after you drain the wort, the grain bed isn't uniform across the bottom of the mash tun? If that's so, well, mine never is uniform.

*****

Clarifying: when I cold crash beer in my Spike CF10--and i have the sight glass on the bottom--the yeast settles and packs down in there. I can see no thermal mixing or anything else in there. During fermentation? Sure--lots of wandering yeast- and trub-globs floating upward, others falling to take their place. But once I cold crash, that ceases absolutely. So if you're still seeing circulation in the sight glass on the bottom, even after cold crashing, that makes no sense to me at all.

 

[danrb]

Channeling: I have a recirc system through a RIMS. During the mash, I will stir a couple times, usually 15 minutes and maybe 30 minutes (I'm reading a refractometer to see how my conversion is going).

What I discovered is that I need to turn off the pump when I stir, BUT, once done stirring, I need to let it sit for a minute or so for the grain bed to resettle. If I don't do that, and turn on the pump right away, I risk creating channels and there I am. So it's turn off pump, gentle stir, wait a minute or so, then reengage the pump.

Could that be something going in here, i.e., one you get channeling, it's not going away, so if you have channels at the outset, you won't improve.

BUT--if you're hitting 92 percent efficiency, how much channeling can you have, and how bad can it be? So I'm struggling to understand what the issue is. Or is it that after you drain the wort, the grain bed isn't uniform across the bottom of the mash tun? If that's so, well, mine never is uniform.

*****

Clarifying: when I cold crash beer in my Spike CF10--and i have the sight glass on the bottom--the yeast settles and packs down in there. I can see no thermal mixing or anything else in there. During fermentation? Sure--lots of wandering yeast- and trub-globs floating upward, others falling to take their place. But once I cold crash, that ceases absolutely. So if you're still seeing circulation in the sight glass on the bottom, even after cold crashing, that makes no sense to me at all.

Thanks. Stirring every 15 minutes is what I've been doing also, but isn't that against conventional wisdom?

As for the cold crash, not sure what is going on, it's been a hot summer so maybe there is a significant difference between the outside and inside temps? Maybe I'm using their equipment wrong? I get more clarity through cold storage in a keg.

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks. Stirring every 15 minutes is what I've been doing also, but isn't that against conventional wisdom?

Whose conventional wisdom, and why? When I did a traditional mash tun (no recirc) stirring made a signficant difference in my conversion and efficiency. It seems to be a help in my current system as well, so I can't figure out why it would be a no-no generally. I try to do LODO techniques and you could argue stirring is counter to that (yeah, probably), but I'm gentle, the mash is hot (O2 absorbs more readily the cooler the liquid is), and the beer is great. So I can't figure out what the problem would be.

In the end, how does your beer taste, and what do others think of it?

BTW, here are a couple pics of my sight glass as the wort comes out of the mash tun and into the pump; looks pretty clear, so I'd say the let it resettle approach seems to work.

As for the cold crash, not sure what is going on, it's been a hot summer so maybe there is a significant difference between the outside and inside temps? Maybe I'm using their equipment wrong? I get more clarity through cold storage in a keg.

Maybe you need to describe your setup. My CF10 has a neoprene sleeve on it, and I'm crashing it using a Penguin glycol chiller. I'm a little surprised you can get your beer down to 36 degrees; I can't ever achieve that, using a glycol mix at 28 degrees, so I'm wondering how you're set up. The only way I know to get a fermenter that low is to put it in a refrigerator or freezer.

 

[danrb]

Whose conventional wisdom, and why? When I did a traditional mash tun (no recirc) stirring made a signficant difference in my conversion and efficiency. It seems to be a help in my current system as well, so I can't figure out why it would be a no-no generally. I try to do LODO techniques and you could argue stirring is counter to that (yeah, probably), but I'm gentle, the mash is hot (O2 absorbs more readily the cooler the liquid is), and the beer is great. So I can't figure out what the problem would be.

In the end, how does your beer taste, and what do others think of it?

BTW, here are a couple pics of my sight glass as the wort comes out of the mash tun and into the pump; looks pretty clear, so I'd say the let it resettle approach seems to work.

View attachment 646966 View attachment 646967




Maybe you need to describe your setup. My CF10 has a neoprene sleeve on it, and I'm crashing it using a Penguin glycol chiller. I'm a little surprised you can get your beer down to 36 degrees; I can't ever achieve that, using a glycol mix at 28 degrees, so I'm wondering how you're set up. The only way I know to get a fermenter that low is to put it in a refrigerator or freezer.

I have the exact same setup. I'm actually able to get my penquin down to about 5F before they glycol starts to freeze. I run it at 20F to hit the 36F in conical. I use two measurements, the provided probe from spike i put where the analog temp monitor goes and I also use a tilt. The tilt and probe are within 2 degrees of each other. If you look at the product guide they talk about the temp inversion for the two different configurations.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0152/1071/files/TC-100_Product_Guide_Spike_Brewing.pdf?348

Their process is a little lite. It does talk about dropping temp for 24 hours. Maybe drop to 36 for a day then allow it to go back up will help?

Agree about stirring. I've had no problems and am making the best beer ever. So I'll just continue to do that. Thanks.

 

[mongoose33]

I have the exact same setup. I'm actually able to get my penquin down to about 5F before they glycol starts to freeze. I run it at 20F to hit the 36F in conical. I use two measurements, the provided probe from spike i put where the analog temp monitor goes and I also use a tilt. The tilt and probe are within 2 degrees of each other. If you look at the product guide they talk about the temp inversion for the two different configurations.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0152/1071/files/TC-100_Product_Guide_Spike_Brewing.pdf?348

Their process is a little lite. It does talk about dropping temp for 24 hours. Maybe drop to 36 for a day then allow it to go back up will help?

Agree about stirring. I've had no problems and am making the best beer ever. So I'll just continue to do that. Thanks.

And you aren't getting beersicle on the chilling coils? The temp at which beer freezes is supposed to drop .8 degrees F for every 1 percent increase in ABV, which is why I keep my Penguin at 28 when crashing. All my beers are bigger than 5% ABV, so no freezing.

I've mostly done 5-gallon batches with mine, and I've tried swapping the input/output lines on the coil, made no discernable difference. Maybe that matters more with 10-gallon batches.