Spike Brewing is up for sale

[BrewnWKopperKat]

HOMEBREWING IS DEAD. What Killed It?​

The prosumer market is definitely both a blessing and a curse.

Also The Brülosophy Show: HOMEBREWING IS DEAD. What Killed It?

FWIW, my quick scan of the comments at UT and the Brülosophy site found a number of different perspectives.

In answer to the question in the title, Betteridge's law is likely the correct answer ...

... but, as always, "time will tell".

 

[mac_1103]

Humans have been brewing and drinking beer for 13,000 years give or take, but they're going to stop next week.

 

[MaxStout]

Or Mark Twain. "Rumors of my death..."

Homebrewing was the domain of a core group of hobbyists for quite a while, until maybe early 2000s or so, when it took off. This tracks about the time when craft brewing also took off. Somebody here probably has a graph that illustrates the timeline, but I'm guesstimating the dates here. Perhaps 2010-12 or so it hit a peak, the salad days of brewing. Then began to slide. Lots of reasons why it went downward, death by 1000 cuts. Decline of homebrew stores, rising costs of gear and ingredients, less interest in beer in general, more people choosing sobriety, the pandemic, competition from other drinks like hard seltzers, people who jumped on the bandwagon later jumping off to do other things, the economy, etc.

Homebrewing won't die. It'll go back to a core of enthusiasts.

 

[bwible]

I certainly hope so as well, but it’s hard to be happy when viewing all the carnage.

There’s another online video, which I sadly regret not having bookmarked, where the owner of the recently shuttered Atlantic Brewing Supply lamented the downturn in home brewing. Her very balanced and unemotional reasoning paralleled the previous linked video, but also cast some shade on how current homebrewers themselves are partly to blame. She talks about how the entry level into the hobby by a newcomer is often overwhelming, with homebrew club members intent on stoking their own egos with technical talk that leaves the newbies wondering what the hell they are doing by trying out this hobby.

Maybe we ourselves are unintentionally sabotaging our own success?

Everything has a learning curve. Back when we started I think it was even more intimidatiing. We didn’t have the internet so much, a cell phone in our hand with access to the sum of the world’s knowlege and so many websites and youtube videos packed with so much info. Everything we learned was either out of a book, from a homebrew shop guy, or from being in a club talking to other brewers. I think there was one email group I used to subscribe to - Homebrew Digest.

In my experience brewers don’t hoard knowlege. Even some breweries are homebrewer friendly and have sent me info or even recipes complete with water numbers when I’ve asked. We don’t so much have local stores anymore. Our club shares knowlege, we have discussions and presentations and we talk about different beers and have quarterly challenges for everybody to brew the same beer. I don’t gain anything by hoarding knowlege or looking down on anybody else. I don’t care if they brew once a year and only extract or kits. Most of our club is that way and will answer anything for anybody. So many people on here are too. I recommend HomebrewTalk all the time, I’m not sure how many look at it.

 

[mac_1103]

Back when we started I think it was even more intimidatiing. We didn’t have the internet so much, a cell phone in our hand with access to the sum of the world’s knowlege and so many websites and youtube videos packed with so much info. Everything we learned was either out of a book, from a homebrew shop guy, or from
being in a club talking to other brewers.

This cuts both ways though. When all you've got is some extract and grains, a bucket with a hole in the lid, and Charlie's book, you're a lot less likely to overthink things. Or to believe that you have to overthink things to make good beer.

 

[bwible]

Humans have been brewing and drinking beer for 13,000 years give or take, but they're going to stop next week.

Not that humanity will stop brewing but reduced numbers make things more challenging for everybody. When companies selling equipment, malt, hops, yeast, and supplies either go out of business or start only selling to breweries. We see things now like Wyeast PC collection and White Labs Vault strains that they want to sell but there isn’t demand. BYO magazine doesn’t sell a print copy anymore. Is Zymurgy next? Some websites have gone behind a pay wall. Nobody has a local shop close by to go grab hops or yeast last minute if needed. Many have to go mail order. When there are people and demand there are services. When there are no people and no demand there’s no profit so no services.

 

[leedspointbrew]

Not that humanity will stop brewing but reduced numbers make things more challenging for everybody. When companies selling equipment, malt, hops, yeast, and supplies either go out of business or start only selling to breweries. We see things now like Wyeast PC collection and White Labs Vault strains that they want to sell but there isn’t demand. BYO magazine doesn’t sell a print copy anymore. Is Zymurgy next? Some websites have gone behind a pay wall. Nobody has a local shop close by to go grab hops or yeast last minute if needed. Many have to go mail order. When there are people and demand there are services. When there are no people and no demand there’s no profit so no services.

That may not always be a bad thing. I really liked my LHBS in Hammonton, NJ and its owners, but do find that not having that resource makes me plan more carefully.

 

[Bobby_M]

Humans have been brewing and drinking beer for 13,000 years give or take, but they're going to stop next week.

I get the sentiment and reluctance to accept that we may be at a tipping point in alcohol demand in general. No one thinks everyone is going to stop drinking beer but the numbers may very well contract to half or a quarter of the peak.

There was probably a time when Tabaco users said the same thing. I don't know how much further back from 1980 you'd have to go before the line flattens out but you get the point.

This is only occasionally brought up in the context of this discussion but desire for intoxication doesn't have to be down. It's just being replaced.

 

[day_trippr]

 

[Broothru]

HOMEBREWING IS DEAD. What Killed It?​

The prosumer market is definitely both a blessing and a curse.

Yep. That’s the interview .

And it’s spot on. It doesn’t take much in the way of self-reflection to see that I’m complicit as well in this situation.

 

[MikeCo]

Another piece I never hear people talk about is price. I think the higher prices are actually what's driving down demand. I make a decent living but dropping $8-$10 a beer still needs to be an occasional thing. If they dropped down to $6 I would almost always have 2 and probably go out more. $24 4 packs at the brewery is crazy...

This is exactly how feel about buying beer at tap rooms today. The cost has gotten ridiculous. Most places around here charge $8 for a pint, and some add tax to that. With a tip, it's nearly $10. I used to have more than one beer when a glass cost around $6. Now I find myself going to these places less often and usually only buying one beer. It's just such a poor value. Much of the time now, I only visit brewery tap rooms when they have a happy hour discount.

 

[mac_1103]

This is exactly how feel about buying beer at tap rooms today. The cost has gotten ridiculous. Most places around here charge $8 for a pint, and some add tax to that. With a tip, it's nearly $10.

You know, I get this but I also don't get this. I can make myself a smash burger at home for a lot less than $14 and a garden salad for a lot less than $9 (actual menu prices from the tap room we went to for a friend's birthday last weekend). And of course there's tax and tip on those too. I suppose we could have had folks over to our place to drink my beer while I grilled burgers in the 100+ degree heat instead, and I'm sure everyone would have had just as good a time. Except me.

I had a very nice ordinary bitter on cask and a rauchbier. Styles that I don't have at home, which is what I usually try to do when I'm paying for my beer. Sure I could brew myself a smoked beer any time I wanted to. I could also invest in a beer engine and a twelve tap keezer and pretend that all of that didn't cost me anything. I'd also have to give away 90% of my beer if I brewed that much, so the pints I drank myself would probably end up costing me around $8 anyway.

 

[MaxStout]

This is exactly how feel about buying beer at tap rooms today. The cost has gotten ridiculous. Most places around here charge $8 for a pint, and some add tax to that. With a tip, it's nearly $10. I used to have more than one beer when a glass cost around $6. Now I find myself going to these places less often and usually only buying one beer. It's just such a poor value. Much of the time now, I only visit brewery tap rooms when they have a happy hour discount.

Wait til you go to one of those places that slips in a 20% "service fee." Surprise! Your beer is now ~$12 with that, sales tax and tip. In a 12oz shaker pint glass.

 

[Pennine]

Does anyone have a count of active homebrewers? Has it dropped in half like AHA membership?

 

[Pennine]

I just looked at Spike's website. Why do American companies make such impractical homebrewing equipment with hoses, pumps, doors and **** going everywhere?

Where are the nice high quality compact units like my Braumeister?

 

[mashdar]

Where are the nice high quality compact units like my Braumeister?

Anvil, clawhammer, grainfather (edit: NZ, but easy to buy)? edit: and Kegland (AUS) probably swamps the market for <$800 AIO. Hard to compete with them

There happen to be different folks who like different strokes.

 

[Pennine]

Anvil, clawhammer, grainfather (edit: NZ, but easy to buy)? edit: and Kegland (AUS) probably swamps the market for <$800 AIO. Hard to compete with them

There happen to be different folks who like different strokes.

Agreed, but checked out anvil and saw a lot of 10 gallon monstrosities.

The point being this stuff is very overwhelming for new brewers. I do hope there are a lot of homebrewers who like mini breweries or else I see some other businesses fading away.

 

[Yooper]

Does anyone have a count of active homebrewers? Has it dropped in half like AHA membership?

I sure don't- but based on some of the statistic I've seen, it may even be less than half.

I went into my local (formerly very well supplied) beer/liquor/wine store attached to the grocery store. They have three LOOOOONNNNGGGG coolers along three walls. Recently, the shorter left side cooler, but still long, had Michigan beers. The back had micro crap, and the right had US (and some imports) craft beers.

The selection now is miniscule for good beer. Seltzers, cocktails, vodka cocktails, weed beer, etc, took up more than half of both of the coolers that used to have craft beer. We bought three six packs (two from Michigan, one from Minnesota) as that is seriously the only thing we could find that isn't 'crap beer' instead of 'craft beer'. The tides have definitely turned.

The back macro beer cooler still had plenty of cases of Mich Ultra, Bud Light, Miller light and a few Coors. Like dozens and dozens of those...and there were all full.

Homebrewers are mostly now in their 50s or older. It's definitely now a niche market.

 

[mashdar]

We bought three six packs (two from Michigan, one from Minnesota) as that is seriously the only thing we could find that isn't 'crap beer' instead of 'craft beer'.

And they were all hazy IPA?

Homebrewers are mostly now in their 50s or older. It's definitely now a niche market.

One of the big draws to homebrewing 20+ years ago was being able to make styles that weren't commercially available. Maybe we're returning to that.

(As a malty beer lover, I'd say peak US grocery store ales was 2008-2012, before literally everything other than Old Rasputin was replaced with IPA. I'm rejoicing in the recent malty lager expansion, though. Hanaford carrys Jack's Abby, although half the time new stock is already 4 months old and not in a cooler.)

 

[Yooper]

And they were all hazy IPA?

One of the big draws to homebrewing 20+ years ago was being able to make styles that weren't commercially available. Maybe we're returning to that.

(As a malty beer lover, I'd say peak US grocery store ales was 2008-2012, before literally everything other than Old Rasputin was replaced with IPA. I'm rejoicing in the recent malty lager expansion, though. Hanaford carrys Jack's Abby, although half the time new stock is already 4 months old and not in a cooler.)

There were definitely a lot of fruited beers and hazies, and some weird sours.

I know that in the early 2000s, I loved the malty beers that I could find- maibocks, blonde dopplebock by Capital Brewery, and some of the browns by breweries like New Glarus. I like almost all beer styles, but can't stomach the "milkshake" IPAs and the overly hazy fruit bombs.

 

[bwible]

I just looked at Spike's website. Why do American companies make such impractical homebrewing equipment with hoses, pumps, doors and **** going everywhere?

Where are the nice high quality compact units like my Braumeister?

If money were no object I would love to own a Speidel Braumeister. They’re about $2500 to $3000 US here and I’m not sure what all attachments you do and don’t get for that. But that looks like a sweet system with program automation and all kinds of cool stuff.

 

[Broothru]

Agree wholeheartedly.

Started brewing with a Braumeister in 2013, and haven't looked back or regretted the purchase. It's now a "mature" design, and any upgrades are mostly in the rear view mirror. That said, my rig is dialed in and still crankin' out great beers with no sign of giving up the ghost anytime soon. The evolution of the design has mostly stopped, but I'm still quite satisfied.

 

[bwible]

Agree wholeheartedly.

Started brewing with a Braumeister in 2013, and haven't looked back or regretted the purchase. It's now a "mature" design, and any upgrades are mostly in the rear view mirror. That said, my rig is dialed in and still crankin' out great beers with no sign of giving up the ghost anytime soon. The evolution of the design has mostly stopped, but I'm still quite satisfied.

Hell of an upgrade from my Anvil Foundry

 

[Bobby_M]

I just looked at Spike's website. Why do American companies make such impractical homebrewing equipment with hoses, pumps, doors and **** going everywhere?

Where are the nice high quality compact units like my Braumeister?

Have you seen Americans?

Seriously though, there are already 10 compact all in ones out in the market. Going for the complex system buyer is actually a differentiator. I don't agree that those systems are better, but there's a market for it (or at least there was). They do offer a single vessel brewing system with a ton of power and modular components that don't cause the entire unit to become obsolete if the company goes out of business. That is by far the biggest downside to buying a fully integrated all in one, especially a high end one.

Ask the owners of the PicoBrick (TM).

 

[Pennine]

Have you seen Americans?
View attachment 881093


Seriously though, there are already 10 compact all in ones out in the market. Going for the complex system buyer is actually a differentiator. I don't agree that those systems are better, but there's a market for it (or at least there was). They do offer a single vessel brewing system with a ton of power and modular components that don't cause the entire unit to become obsolete if the company goes out of business. That is by far the biggest downside to buying a fully integrated all in one, especially a high end one.

Ask the owners of the PicoBrick (TM).

Exactly!

Good point about the modular pieces.

Do you know something about Spiedel that I don't?

I would love a smaller all in one like the 10l braumeister that had a full size mash basket. The others on the market like brewzilla and the S40 are huge. It would also be cool if they had accelerated heating ability.

 

[mashdar]

t would also be cool if they had accelerated heating ability.

As in battery-assist? I've heard of a pizza oven that uses that.

Edit: I guess you could buy something like this with a second 5.5kW element.
https://www.ankersolix.com/f3800-pps

 

[Pennine]

As in battery-assist? I've heard of a pizza oven that uses that.

Oh no but that is interesting.

I meant as a higher amperage 240v heating element or a secondary heater you could use to heat to mash in and boil.

I used to have a heat stick to supplement but I haven't found anything like the nice European ones that are readily available over there.

 

[Broothru]

Exactly!

Good point about the modular pieces.

Do you know something about Spiedel that I don't?

I would love a smaller all in one like the 10l braumeister that had a full size mash basket. The others on the market like brewzilla and the S40 are huge. It would also be cool if they had accelerated heating ability.

IMO, the 10l version is too small, and I believe it only comes in a 110V version. The 50l version is too large for home brew sized brewing, and is essentially a 20l system fitted with a 240V heating system that’s 2x as large as the 20l with 2 recirc pumps. It’s also bulky and quite heavy.

Braumeister also manufactures much larger brewery-sized systems starting at 200l and greater capacities which are not mobile and more like ‘pilot brew’ systems for brewery application settings. Their homebrew systems were developed as an extension of their commercial brewery business.

All that said, the 20l system is a beast, built like a tank, maybe to the point of over-engineered. There have been some improvements and additions over the years, including a jacketed model designed to eliminate the need for IC cooling systems in the post-boil. I’ve heard it’s not nearly as effective as a stainless steel coil chiller or plate chiller, however. It might have been an attempt to make a true all-in-one mash, boil, ferment, cold crash device. Meh.

Maybe 5 years ago I bought a LODO kit that I found to be very useful, that also allows for slightly higher brew volumes and malt bills. Originally the ‘advertised’ maximums were 25l and about 10# of grist. Now my regular brew day is at least 4-5 liters more strike water and 12.5# of grains. I get 83-85% mash efficiency, and 7.5 gal. pre-boil volumes with 6.3 gal. batch volumes into the fermenter, after trub and boil-off losses.

Last year I added a shortened malt pipe that allows me to brew 10l+ volumes, since just like the rest of us I’m drinking less and doing less entertaining, post Covid. It’s been a learning curve to get my proportions scaled properly from standard 5 gallon size, but my recipes are finally getting to where I like them.

Every now & then, I’ll see some other system that captures my attention, but then I come back to reality and realize that “new” doesn’t always equate with “better.” The downside of my 20l Braumeister was the 240V power requirement (amortizated years ago for less than $100) and the weight of the system. It only takes around :20 minutes to heat 9 gallons of strike water from ambient to 50C, which is about the same amount of time it takes me to crush grains in the morning.

The older I get, I realize that if it’s built like a tank, it can almost approach the weight of a tank, especially when moving it inside to transfer the wort to the fermenter. I mounted it on an 1 ½” thick hardwood base with 3” locking casters so that certainly added to the overall gross weight, but it still has to get ‘lifted’ across the threshold track of a sliding glass door to get it inside my brew area.

But, yeah, I’m a fan boi. Not trading my toy in for a new system unless this one up and dies on me. But at this rate, I’m assuming that I’ll be the first one to quit.

 

[Bobby_M]

Do you know something about Spiedel that I don't?

not at all. I just know that fully integrated anything is bad when no company is guaranteed to stay in business or continue supporting a product even if they do.

I would love a smaller all in one like the 10l braumeister that had a full size mash basket. The others on the market like brewzilla and the S40 are huge. It would also be cool if they had accelerated heating ability.

You're right, Spike doesn't have a highly computerized micro brewing system. It's essentially the opposite end of the spectrum from their target audience (in my opinion.... I don't speak for Spike).

The closest reasonabley priced option of what you're looking for is the Anvil Foundry 6.5. It will make 2800 watts on 240v and can brew as small as 2.5 gallons batches. In my humble opinion, that's the smallest practical recipe size before you get into a volume that is just too sensitive to input mismeasurement. In other words, IBU swings due to one extra pellet or one fewer pellets. I'm not saying you can't be happy with smaller batches but if consistency is important, that's a great small batch size.

Moving slightly more robust and even less integrated, the Blichmann breweasy compact using the 10 gallon surface kettle is pretty close. 3500 watts.

Neither of these have a computer bolted to the side but frankly as someone about to turn 50, I'll never really find that to be a deal breaker.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I just looked at Spike's website. Why do American companies make such impractical homebrewing equipment with hoses, pumps, doors and **** going everywhere?

Where are the nice high quality compact units like my Braumeister?

I don't know what your talking about.

Edit: man I need a drop ceiling.