Spices preventing my fermentation from starting?

[JP Smajda]

I have the most stubborn batches of cider I have ever contended with. At this point, I have pitched three kinds of yeast (including a double dose of 1118), given ALL of the yeast nutrient I was intending on staggering and added some DAP. We are talking about 8 batches of 4 gallons each.

Here is the whole story.
I am a small batch condiment/ sauce producer. This time of year I make a pumpkin spice infused honey because I don't hate money.

Cook the honey at 175º for half an hour with whole spices in it. Strain out the spices and put the honey into jars. There is honey left on the spices still, so I poured about 30 gallons of cider over the spices, heat it again to about 160, and strained the spices out, let cool.

So far my ingredients are:
Kirkland Apple Juice: (The only ingredient on the label is apple juice)
A local honey
Organic Cinnamon Chips
Organic Ginger
Organic Nutmeg
Organic Clove
Organic Cardamon

Apparently there was a lot of honey and when I took my gravity reading it said the potential alcohol was 11%.

I have 8 vessels going with 4 gallons in each.

Saturday September 2nd I pitched some Nottingham Ale and nutrient. I did follow starter instructions on ALL packets. No activity for a few days. By Wednesday the 6th I panic, add some DAP (about a half dose) order some D47 and pitch that on Saturday (Sept 9). Still no activity. On monday I order a whole bunch of 1118, on Wednesday (Sept 13) pitch two packets per 4 gallons, add more nutrient and another half dose of DAP.

I started a mead at the same time, right next to it and its singing. Pasture Cuvee, 10% potential, nutrient added, no DAP.

My only thought is that the heavy spice amount may be doing something to the yeast?

It tastes like it fermented A LITTLE. but not much at all.

 

[VikeMan]

I think there are a lot of spices known to inhibit yeast activity to some extent. How much they inhibit yeast activity is something of a mystery. There are a few studies I've seen, but the context of them wasn't very helpful as I recall.

One datapoint: The slowest start to a fermentation I have ever had was in a brown ale that had the following spices added in the boil. The yeast was WLP002.

Cinnamon
Cardamom
Ginger
Allspice
Nutmeg
Clove
Coriander
Black Pepper

After fermentation got started, everything seemed normal.

 

[JP Smajda]

I think there are a lot of spices known to inhibit yeast activity to some extent. How much they inhibit yeast activity is something of a mystery. There are a few studies I've seen, but the context of them wasn't very helpful as I recall.

One datapoint: The slowest start to a fermentation I have ever had was in a brown ale that had the following spices added in the boil. The yeast was WLP002.

Cinnamon
Cardamom
Ginger
Allspice
Nutmeg
Clove
Coriander
Black Pepper

After fermentation got started, everything seemed normal.

How long of a start was this brew?

 

[VikeMan]

How long of a start was this brew?

According to my notes, it was about 37 hours before I saw pressure on the spunding valve's gauge.

 

[Kickass]

Have you taken gravity readings? Sometimes fermentation can be sneaky.

 

[AzOr]

Besides the spices, make sure you aerate your must. When I use store bought apple juice, I’d pour aggressively through a metal strainer as it’s flaking in the bucket. At this point you can try using a whisk.

 

[fljim]

I think there are a lot of spices known to inhibit yeast activity to some extent. How much they inhibit yeast activity is something of a mystery. There are a few studies I've seen, but the context of them wasn't very helpful as I recall.

One datapoint: The slowest start to a fermentation I have ever had was in a brown ale that had the following spices added in the boil. The yeast was WLP002.

Cinnamon
Cardamom
Ginger
Allspice
Nutmeg
Clove
Coriander
Black Pepper

After fermentation got started, everything seemed normal.

I've done a number of spiced beers and I would highly recommend that you add the spices to the secondary. You're gonna lose a lot of the aromatics of the spices from the primary blow off. JMO

 

[JP Smajda]

Have you taken gravity readings? Sometimes fermentation can be sneaky.

yep. hanging out at the same level.

 

[JP Smajda]

I've done a number of spiced beers and I would highly recommend that you add the spices to the secondary. You're gonna lose a lot of the aromatics of the spices from the primary blow off. JMO

I usually do that, however this brew is a result of me using the byproducts of another product. (See first post.) The logistics of it being a secondary is not even close to what I have going on with this.

 

[JP Smajda]

In conclusion:
I took a quart of the mash and added a packet of 1118 to it, didn't ferment anything. I gave up. boiling it down to a syrup and saving it to add to other ciders.