Spices/Beer Recirculating In Unitank

[CodeSection]

I'm planning on refining my brewing, conditioning and bottling processes so I have been doing a lot of reading. My ultimate goal is to carb and bottle either in a Unitank (my Spike CF10) or Bright Tank with a closed transfer using a multi-head counter pressure bottle filler.

Currently, I use a bottling bucket and if the recipe calls for spices when bottling, I mix the spices with the priming solution. I understand I can add spices directly into the Unitank using a keg or some type of yeast brink sight glass connected to the dumping port or racking port. What has bothered me is not knowing how the spices get throughly mixed in the beer in the Unitank. Until maybe now....

I was reading how pros use biofine to help clear the beer and one of their processes when using a Unitank is to dump the yeast, inject biofine, then recirculate from the bottom port back into the racking port. Couldn't this same process be used when adding spices to the Unitank to make sure they are mixed well?

I suspect one could not perform this process if the beer was carb. If that is the case, then spunding would be out too, correct?

Lastly, if one was to recirculate the beer, could you use the same pump the you used when brewing or would you need a different dedicated pump?

Does any of this make sense?

 

[Vale71]

You can certainly recirculate carbed beer although it can be a bit tricky. Main issues would be sainitation and oxygen ingress.
Keep in mind that if you're recirculating between dump port and racking port on a very small fermenter the ports will be only a few inches apart so you won't be actually recirculating much of the beer anyway. It would be more meaningful to either recirculate to a top port (but you need to find a way to avoid splashing the beer or you'll get uncotrollable foaming) or to drop the spices in from a top port using a purged, pressurized attachement similar to the ones described in this thread.

 

[CodeSection]

Looking at the distance between the two ports on the CF10, it appears to be roughly 10". Plus, if I rotated the racking arm to point up, I would imagine that would help with a vertical whirlpool that would pull down some beer to mix. I'm not sure dropping spices from the top only would thoroughly mix in without some type of whirlpool.

It sounds like this may be a viable solution in mixing spices in a Unitank or even a Bright tank. So, the two remaining issues is what pump to use and how to purge the O2 from it along with the tubing with CO2. I'm guessing it may be impossible to purge all of the O2 out of the pump and tubing....

 

[Vale71]

Looking at the distance between the two ports on the CF10, it appears to be roughly 10". Plus, if I rotated the racking arm to point up, I would imagine that would help with a vertical whirlpool that would pull down some beer to mix. I'm not sure dropping spices from the top only would thoroughly mix in without some type of whirlpool.

Well that certainly works with dry hopping so I don't see why it shouldn't work with spices. At commercial levels of course volumes are much greater and some form of mixing or recirculation might indeed become a necessity. At the homebrew level I think it's just creating more issues than it actually fixes.

 

[CodeSection]

I was planning on buying another CF10 so as I could start another batch and not have to wait for my current CF10 to complete fermentation and be available. It has been suggested that a bright tank will free up my fermenter too and will allow the beer to condition. When I look at the SS Brewtech 10 gallon Brite Tank with everything, it is about $400-$500 cheaper than the Spike CF10 with everything.

So, I guess one could add any liquid spices into the bright tank prior to using CO2 to transfer the beer from the CF10. All one would need to do is purge the bright tank of O2 prior to the transfer. Thus, the beer transferring from the fermenter into the bright tank will mix completely with the spices just like with my current bottle bucket setup of pouring in the priming solution with about of inch of beer entering the bucket.

It seems using a bright tank will eliminate potential oxidation issues caused by a pump recirculating beer in the Unitank; free up my CF10 to brew more batches; allow the beer to condition; and will save money when compared to buying another CF10.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Sounds like a good plan... if you do want to recirculate however, I now of multiple breweries that use diaphragm pumps for this type of process.

 

[CodeSection]

Thanks for the info on the diaphragm pumps. Boy, they are expensive!

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Thanks for the info on the diaphragm pumps. Boy, they are expensive!

You're welcome... they are one of those things though, that if you aren't in a hurry, every once in a while you can find a deal on them on the second hand market!

 

[Wayne1]

https://www.morebeer.com/products/priming-transfer-pump.html
I have used these in a Pro Brewery to transfer beer from barrels to kegs and bright tanks.
Reasonable cost for the performance.

Just use a "T" connection with valves to purge air from the lines.

 

[CodeSection]

Thanks Wayne! That is a lot cheaper compared to the huge commercial pumps!

So, then recirculating the beer in a Unitank to mix spices will be possible with this pump and a purge valve. MoreBeer's site indicates it is for fermented, but uncarbonated beer. Thus, it sounds like spunding might cause a problem?

Would a pump be needed to transfer beer from the Unitank to say a bright tank? Or, would CO2 be enough to make the transfer.

 

[Wayne1]

CO2 transfer would be best. Purge the bright tank with CO2. Keep the pressure in the bright slightly lower than the fermenter.

You can use the diaphragm pump with carbonated product, but pressures need to be matched closely.

I would suggest keeping the spunding pressure low and adding most of the carbonation in the bright.

 

[Vale71]

For recirculating beer I can only recommend a peristaltic pump. They're pricey but for this application you don't need more than 1-2 l/min flow rate.

 

[Wayne1]

Here are a few products built for pro brewers to recirculate hops and spices. Perhaps you can be inspired by these to make something that will fit your use. BTW, they all use centrifugal pumps.

https://www.kaspar-schulz.de/en/pro...ng/hop-dosing-systems/hop-dosing-systems.html

https://www.ampcopumps.com/rolec-dh/

https://www.cpesystems.com/products/mh-20-hop-induction-system

 

[CodeSection]

Here are a few products built for pro brewers to recirculate hops and spices. Perhaps you can be inspired by these to make something that will fit your use. BTW, they all use centrifugal pumps.

https://www.kaspar-schulz.de/en/pro...ng/hop-dosing-systems/hop-dosing-systems.html

https://www.ampcopumps.com/rolec-dh/

https://www.cpesystems.com/products/mh-20-hop-induction-system

Thanks for the links! That is some serious hardware. It will give me more to think about on a much smaller scale...

 

[CodeSection]

I'm still thinking about about mixing spices within the CF10 by dumping the yeast/trub and then using a pump to circulate the beer from the 2" dump port back up to the 1.5" racking port. I have been reading about diaphragm pumps, peristaltic pumps, and centrifugal pumps. It seems the pumps are either too powerful or maybe not enough power. Then there are issues with some of those pumps if you want to reduce flow by more than 20%.

Since I only have about 10" between the two ports, why couldn't one use a magnetic pump like https://www.morebeer.com/products/mkii-high-temp-magnetic-drive-pump.html ? This pump can easily be throttled back without fear of it shutting down due to pressure. The MKII also has enough power.

I would imagine whatever pump is used, that for this application, it would only run 10-15 minutes at most.

 

[Wayne1]

I have a MKII for recirculation on the Digi-Boil for my HLT. It does a very good job. I would suggest using a Stainless steel head and a ball valve on the outlet with camlocks on input and outlet. I would have no worry using this pump to recirculate hops or spices.

 

[CodeSection]

I have a MKII for recirculation on the Digi-Boil for my HLT. It does a very good job. I would suggest using a Stainless steel head and a ball valve on the outlet with camlocks on input and outlet. I would have no worry using this pump to recirculate hops or spices.

That settles it then. I use two of these when I brew. Plus, I bought two extra ones when they went on sale for either as backup or to be used in CO. All have SS heads...

 

[Vale71]

Since I only have about 10" between the two ports, why couldn't one use a magnetic pump like https://www.morebeer.com/products/mkii-high-temp-magnetic-drive-pump.html ? This pump can easily be throttled back without fear of it shutting down due to pressure. The MKII also has enough power.

The pump being magnetic makes absolutely no difference as far as throttling it is concerned. Since you'll be circulating carbonated beer and not wort it's not advisable to have it running at full power through a mostly closed valve.
A peristaltic pump is still the best option. They're expensive but in the 1 to 2 liters per second range they're still somewhat affordable.

 

[CodeSection]

The pump being magnetic makes absolutely no difference as far as throttling it is concerned. Since you'll be circulating carbonated beer and not wort it's not advisable to have it running at full power through a mostly closed valve.
A peristaltic pump is still the best option. They're expensive but in the 1 to 2 liters per second range they're still somewhat affordable.

I guess one could use a dimmer switch to reduce power, correct?

 

[Vale71]

Not really, with an AC motor you need a variable frequency inverter which is not cheap.
Much better to get a DC driven pump and a PWM regulator.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Not really, with an AC motor you need a variable frequency inverter which is not cheap.
Much better to get a DC driven pump and a PWM regulator.

And if going this route, I really recommend the Topsflo TD5 with PWM control that brewpi sells: https://store.brewpi.com/td5-24v-pwm-brewing-pump