Speidel Braumeister (brewmaster)

[psehorne]

I've seen several different acids (phosphoric, lactic, for example) mentioned for lowering pH. I have gallons of muriatic acid that I use for my swimming pool. Any reason not to use it?

I filled a corny keg with my high pH tap water and each 5ml of 30% muriatic acid lowered the pH by 1.1; 15 ml took it from 8.1 to 5.8.

As I recall a gallon of muriatic acid is about $10 vs about $15 for one ounce of 85% lactic acid (on Amazon).

I need to settle on this before my first batch. My 20L is supposed to ship tomorrow and I anticipate receiving it before the end of next week. So my first brew day could be as early as Saturday the 17th.

Paul

Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide (first printing 1995) makes the following statement about acids (pages 52-53):

Remember how I described salt dissolving into water by breaking apart into its component ions -- the process of ionization. Salt ionizes just about totally in water. Strong acids act the same way. If you mix some sulfuric acid with water, it will instantly and almost completely break into hydrogen and and sulfate ions. However, many acids, especially organic ones (organic means that they contain carbon), do not ionize completely. Only a few percent of the molecules of tartaric acid or lactic acid will ionize in pure water. Most of the molecules remain intact.
This means that the acid content of a tartaric acid solution has a relatively little to do with pH.

This implies that lactic acid that some are using is an inefficient and expensive way to lower pH.

I've found no reason not to use muriatic acid (less then $10/gallon).

 

[Obliviousbrew]

You should post this question in the brew science forum. There is a lot of people there that will help you. Just to try leave things OT and you´ll get a better answer from them

 

[Obliviousbrew]

(OF) Also: I wont use a strong acid like muriatic acid in brewing water. Why not to use sulfuric acid then? muriatic acid if I remember correctly itñs a "blend" of sulfuric acid and salt (H2SO4 + NaC). Toxicity? off flavor?. Really before you do anything check with the pros. It´s complicated for my to to translatemineral names from spanish to english so you´ll get better help from someone else.

 

[psehorne]

You should post this question in the brew science forum

Ah! You are so right. I was not thinking. This is off-topic for this forum.

My apologies.

 

[psehorne]

(OF) muriatic acid if I remember correctly itñs a "blend" of sulfuric acid and salt (H2SO4 + NaC).

It's hydrochloric acid HCl. And you are correct about it being produced from sulfuric acid and salt.

 

[SFBrewer]

Something I'd be concerned about industrial/household grade chemicals are potential impurities from the entire production chain...metals, toxins, volatiles and so forth related to the equipment the acid is produced with, the quality of the dilution substrate, and the various containers it is housed in before it gets sold to you. If it's not intended for consumption I'd hazard there aren't a lot of strict controls in place on any of that.

 

[psehorne]

My 20L shipped today!!!

It has made it to Paris, FR. Anticipated delivery date Tues 13th

 

[DeGarre]

It has made it to Paris, FR. Anticipated delivery date Tues 13th

Please remember to take lots of photos on your first brew day.

 

[psehorne]

Please remember to take lots of photos on your first brew day.

Ah, yes.... thanks for reminding me.

I am sitting here now creating a to-do list (in BeerSmith 'notes') for brew day, so that I don't forget any important steps -- like remembering to add the Gypsum, adjust mash pH, etc.

I'll add 'Take pics' to my reminders.

 

[psehorne]

Ah, yes.... thanks for reminding me.

I am sitting here now creating a to-do list (in BeerSmith 'notes') for brew day, so that I don't forget any important steps -- like remembering to add the Gypsum, adjust mash pH, etc.

I'll add 'Take pics' to my reminders.

Here is my list so far. Items with an asterisk are items that must not be forgotten during the heat of the battle (hopefully a stress-free brew day)

--Advance Prep
Adjust water to ~50ppm hardness with Gypsum (calcium carbonate)
Adjust water pH to 5.8 with acid
Adjust water to < 50ppm alkalinity (optional)
Prepare starter
Take pics throughout the day

-- Before starting
Record ambient temperature
Record barometric pressure (adjust boil temperature, if necessary)
Record water starting temperature

--During Mash
*Adjust mash pH
Record time to increment water temperature between each step
Iodine test for starch
Record pre-boil hardness, alkalinity, specific gravity, and pH

- During Boil
*Add Gypsum to the boil to bring hardness up to 100ppm
*Add Irish Moss at wort boil 5 minute point

-- Post Boil
*Record the post-boil specific gravity (hydrometer and refractometer) before pitching yeast

 

[psehorne]

My 20L shipped today!!!

My 29L has made it as far as Memphis!

 

[bcryan]

Anyone have any experience with the 200 or 500 liter braumeister??

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Anyone have any experience with the 200 or 500 liter braumeister??

There is a 500l unit??? I´ve seen the 200l work but it´s the first time that I even hearabout a 500l unit

 

[bcryan]

http://www.homebrew-supplies.ca/viartshop/product_details.php?category_id=251&item_id=2958

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Wow. I guess those have to be custom made cause I can´t see it in speidel website. Anyway I´ve seen the 200l work and it´s fine. I don´t know about anything about the 500l, search trough this thread there was a couple of post from a guy with a micro that own the 200l, PM him, don´t know if his active but it worth a try.

 

[brewbush]

I am going to do a bourbon imperial porter and was trying to tweak the ingredients to fit a grain bill in the unit. I do not want to do any double mash, just substitute DME for 2 row. How does this look? This is based off of Denny Conn's recipe.

5lbs pale malt
3lbs DME
2.5lbs munich
1.5 lbs brown
1lb 120L crystal
0.5lb 40L crystal
0.5lbs chocolate.

Total grain weight is 11lbs

I was planning on adding DME with 20-30 min left in the boil.

Should I stick with this or go a bit lower lbs with the 2 row and increase the DME addition?

Thanks

 

[Obliviousbrew]

You can actually fit more malt in there I don´t know about the 20l unit but with the 50l ans short malt pipe I´ve used alomost 7 kilos of malt. What is you desire OG?

 

[brewbush]

OG should be right around 1.076.
I only have the 20L BM, so the amount of grain is tight.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Maybe some other 20l user can chip in but I´ve done 1.076 brew with no added DME or double mash and a boil time of 90 minutes.

 

[dinnerstick]

i agree, from my experience you can get 7kg in the 20L and get into the 1.070's pretty easily, even with a 60 minute boil, if you are a bit careful with the mash. that said, i am not at all against using a bit of DME to boost gravity a bit or fine tune a batch, it's a useful tool in the toolbox, i get upset when people berate its use! but i wouldn't be afraid to go higher on the base malt and cut down the dme if i were you; 6kg is easy to mash (your 11 lbs grain bill = 5 kg). i have had a couple batches with >7kg grain bills get a bit stuck so i am a little cautious now when i load it up, but i have been having great results lately, with efficiency around 73-75%. i now always open the machine and stir the mash a few times at pump breaks, and sometimes can see that it's getting a bit glumpy or starting to channel, especially when i use a lot of wheat or oats. don't be afraid of a longer mash, i sometimes do a 90 minute rest at sacc temp, and i generally don't add specialty grains until the end of the mash (15-20 minutes left at sacc temp), save the space at the beginning for stuff that needs to be mashed. check the temp at the top of the malt tube often, especially just after temp changes, to make sure there is good flow through the grain; if the wort isn't circulating well you will have warmer wort outside the tube and cooler wort inside, of course a few degrees difference is expected, but if this happens it's time to give it a good stir.

 

[brewbush]

i agree, from my experience you can get 7kg in the 20L and get into the 1.070's pretty easily, even with a 60 minute boil, if you are a bit careful with the mash. that said, i am not at all against using a bit of DME to boost gravity a bit or fine tune a batch, it's a useful tool in the toolbox, i get upset when people berate its use! but i wouldn't be afraid to go higher on the base malt and cut down the dme if i were you; 6kg is easy to mash (your 11 lbs grain bill = 5 kg). i have had a couple batches with >7kg grain bills get a bit stuck so i am a little cautious now when i load it up, but i have been having great results lately, with efficiency around 73-75%. i now always open the machine and stir the mash a few times at pump breaks, and sometimes can see that it's getting a bit glumpy or starting to channel, especially when i use a lot of wheat or oats. don't be afraid of a longer mash, i sometimes do a 90 minute rest at sacc temp, and i generally don't add specialty grains until the end of the mash (15-20 minutes left at sacc temp), save the space at the beginning for stuff that needs to be mashed. check the temp at the top of the malt tube often, especially just after temp changes, to make sure there is good flow through the grain; if the wort isn't circulating well you will have warmer wort outside the tube and cooler wort inside, of course a few degrees difference is expected, but if this happens it's time to give it a good stir.

Is my technique of adding the DME and substituting it for the base malt at the 20-30 min boil mark correct then? Just for future reference if I need to reduce the grain amount?

Thanks for the info on the weight amounts for the 20L, trying to avoid any issues.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

I agree with the DME comment dinnerstick, I see no reason not use it if needed, I´m a cheap bastard and DME is expensive so I try not to use it but I see no problems doing it to get to your target OG. Saving your specialty malts for later in the mash is a great idea too. The unit keeps temps pretty steady with the insulating jacket and lid on during mashing. I too stir my mash during pump breaks and IMHO it does boost your gravity a few points.

 

[dinnerstick]

Is my technique of adding the DME and substituting it for the base malt at the 20-30 min boil mark correct then?

yes, i give it even less time in the boil; i throw in irish moss, yeast nutrients, and put in my immersion chiller all around the 15-10 minute mark, so i also add any sugars and dme then

 

[danibier]

Anyone have any experience with the 200 or 500 liter braumeister??

Hi, I am an experienced BM 200 l brewer. By using 48 kg of malt and 4 kg of sugar I get more than 320 l of beer wort around 11 °P. So, the BM 200 can easily be driven as a 300 l device. I can recommend it.

Check out my page if interested:

http://de-de.facebook.com/pages/danidrinks-Mikrobrauerei-Daniel-Michel/176739955731354

www.danibier.ch

on this German forum you will find a lot of information regarding the BM 200 l - use google translate.

http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthread&fid=12&tid=13205&page=1&orderdate=ASC


There is yet no official 500 l BM as far as I know. But, I saw the link. It seems to me they want to show the BM 500 to the world on the BrauBeviale in Nürnberg that starts tomorrow. The price seems quite high for the 500 l version. Production will start soon, I assume.

Best regards from Switzerland, Daniel

 

[psehorne]

My 29L has made it as far as Memphis!

My 20L is here in the metroplex. Should be delivered to me tomorrow. I'll post pics of the unpacking. I'm going to run a simulated brew with water only and short rests of about 5 minutes(probably on Wednesday) just to test everything out. I'll post pics of that also. Hopefully I will be brewing my first batch on Thursday (simple American Blonde Ale first up). I'll post pics of brew day also.

I've invited my Son-in-law over on Saturday to brew his LME extract Northern England stye Brown Ale as all-grain. Then on Sunday I plan on brewing an American Brown Ale. These will get the pipeline started.

In the meantime, here are some pics of my 20L's new home:

The first pic is my brew house (actually our pool-side kitchen). When weather permits I will place the 20L on a table just under the chalkboard on the right. The 240 volt electrical outlet is out of sight on the side of the building within easy reach just over the fence.

The second pic is of the 240 volt breaker box with a GFCI circuit breaker.

Then a close up of the GFCI breaker and the L6-20R receptacle, which as I already mentioned is just over the fence on the right side of the building.

 

[psehorne]

My 29L has made it as far as Memphis!

FedEx tracking shows "On FedEx vehicle for delivery"

 

[digitaldeluge]

FedEx tracking shows "On FedEx vehicle for delivery"

Nice, are you going to do a water test tonight?

That outlet looks really dangerous, you knocked out too many of the rings, you really should get another one.

 

[psehorne]

Nice, are you going to do a water test tonight?

I'm sure I won't be able to wait until tomorrow. Depends on how late it arrives today. Also, the temps this week are highs in the 60's, lows in the 30's with daylight temps ranging from about 45 (9AM) to mid 60's. So I will probably have to brew indoors. In which case, I will brew inside of the Blue Flamingo brew house and route the power cord out the window.

That outlet looks really dangerous, you knocked out too many of the rings, you really should get another one.

I will be replacing the housing withing the next day or so (as soon as I make a trip to the hardware store). I originally had a larger, 4 conductor, 240 receptacle in there. That's why the opening has been knocked out too large for the L6-20R.

 

[psehorne]

FedEx tracking shows "On FedEx vehicle for delivery"

It's here! The box is in really good shape (minor scar). So hopefully no damage. Now on to the un-boxing.

 

[psehorne]

That outlet looks really dangerous, you knocked out too many of the rings, you really should get another one.

How about now?