Speidel Braumeister (brewmaster)

[makomachine]

Rob / Chris - thanks for the input. It definitely sounds like the 20L is the right fit for me given your input.

Do you use whirl floc or Irish moss in your process? I had some haze issues early on in my brewing process and the addition of those cleared things up for me. I have used both in the course of my brewing - whirl floc seems to give slightly better results in my process from what I can tell.

I've read some that cloudy wort was a problem when people Sparge on this system, but I've dealt with really cloudy wort in my batch sparging that resulted in clear beer with the finings mentioned and a little cold conditioning prior to bottling or in the keg.

 

[Yambor44]

Chris and I discussed this in a PM I think. We were wondering if the cloudy wort could be the result of the time it takes to chill the wort with the SS chiller from Spiedel. Both the 20l and 50l chiller takes the tamp down to around 80-85 in about 20 minutes but then it "sticks" for another 25-30 to get it to pitching temps.

I have used ice water the entire time and it doesn't chill it any quicker than tap/ice water combination. When I was using my copper IC with my 15 gallon keggles (10 gallon batch) I could chill to pitch in 20 minutes while recirculating.

With the BM I have done it without the pumps on, with the pumps on and with and without while stirring - all the exact same time to chill.

I have my old copper chiller I will try this weekend and post the results.

If I were to do it all over, I would definitely not buy one of the chillers, rather use my own or purchase a new less expensive copper IC.

 

[Yambor44]

Also, I have not used a clearing agent with the BM. I will use some Irish Moss as well this weekend if I don't forget.

 

[makomachine]

Also, I have not used a clearing agent with the BM. I will use some Irish Moss as well this weekend if I don't forget.

I'm guessing that will be a big help and I'm also thinking your chillers will be a factor. My beer got much clearer when I got my large copper immersion chiller vs my smaller one that took forever to get things down to pitching temps. I also noticed better hop flavor as well - have you had any issues with late hop additions not giving the results you've seen pre-Braumeister?

 

[Yambor44]

I'm guessing that will be a big help and I'm also thinking your chillers will be a factor. My beer got much clearer when I got my large copper immersion chiller vs my smaller one that took forever to get things down to pitching temps. I also noticed better hop flavor as well - have you had any issues with late hop additions not giving the results you've seen pre-Braumeister?

I can't really say. Just now into my 2nd keg of the first beer I brewed on it. It's 2 months old as of June 17th and it was a lot clearer right out of the gate than the first (younger) 5 gallon keg. By the time that first keg kicked, it was pretty clear.

My goal with my pipeline is to get everything to at least 90 days old before it hits the tap. That seems to be the magic number for the perfectly aged beer for my tastes. Some folks go from grain to glass in 2-4 weeks. I find the beer is waaay to green at that point for my tastes.

 

[makomachine]

Completely agree on the pipeline comment. My best beers are 90 days in the keg cold conditioned. Unfortunately, they rarely make it that long! I'm hoping with the Braumeister I'll have more brewing sessions to allow for some pipeline myself. Up until now, my brew sessions have been few and far between given time constraints.

 

[hfk2]

Hello Makomachine, I have the 20L BM and chose it because even though my old system could handle 10 gal batches easily I always just brew 5 gal batches. The benefit I see with the 50L is if you did 5 gal batches with the small malt pipe you would probably have a better boil due to the higher wattage of the 50L, but someone like Yambor44 could answer that better that me. I use super irish moss and use my large copper immersion cooler to chill with. My wort cools in 5 to 15 minutes depending on time of the year ground water temp) I've found. I too am having a haze issue, it's almost more like a cloudiness. I'm not sure if it's too much protein or tannins getting into the wort due to a rather mild boil. My current batches are 2 or more months old and are still rather cloudy, but do taste good. I plan to take samples at every stage on my next brew to see where the wort begins to cloud. Otherwise I completely enjoy brewing with this equipment.

 

[makomachine]

Hello Makomachine, I have the 20L BM and chose it because even though my old system could handle 10 gal batches easily I always just brew 5 gal batches. The benefit I see with the 50L is if you did 5 gal batches with the small malt pipe you would probably have a better boil due to the higher wattage of the 50L, but someone like Yambor44 could answer that better that me. I use super irish moss and use my large copper immersion cooler to chill with. My wort cools in 5 to 15 minutes depending on time of the year ground water temp) I've found. I too am having a haze issue, it's almost more like a cloudiness. I'm not sure if it's too much protein or tannins getting into the wort due to a rather mild boil. My current batches are 2 or more months old and are still rather cloudy, but do taste good. I plan to take samples at every stage on my next brew to see where the wort begins to cloud. Otherwise I completely enjoy brewing with this equipment.

Sounds like you are covering all the bases and can't see why the Braumeister process would cause haze/cloudiness on it's own. My early brewing days on the stovetop resulted in some cloudiness that I always attributed to extract in general - makes me wonder if it was boil temp given the low boil temps as well. A bit discouraging that it seems to be a problem that many are seeing however. I'm still considering pulling the trigger on the 20L today though- cloudiness alone isn't something that would keep me from buying the unit necessarily.

 

[makomachine]

hfk2 / Chris - Are you using the optional insulating jacket? Just wondering if the addition of that is helping with the 20L boil temp.

Also, what type of mash schedule are you running (protein rest / sach rest / sparge / etc)?

 

[Yambor44]

As hfk2 mentioned you do get a better rolling boil with the smaller malt pipe in the 50 L unit.

 

[hfk2]

I use the insulating jacket. I got it because I brew in my basement now and in the winter it is about 60F. I haven't not used it so I can't tell you how much difference it makes. It is well made and a good, but a little pricey. I've tried different mash schedules, from multi-step (beta and alpha amalyse rests) including protein rests and mashout. My clearest beer was my first which included a protein rest at 122F for 30 minutes, a saccrification rest at 148F for 75 minutes and mashout at 168F for 10 minutes. I also used the schedule that came programmed in the BM, and other variations that increased/decreased rest times at different temperatures. This is the real benefit of the BM. By the way in my last two batches I used a homemade heat stick (1500w) to get a vigorous boil going. I wont know if it made a difference for a few weeks.

 

[makomachine]

I use the insulating jacket. I got it because I brew in my basement now and in the winter it is about 60F. I haven't not used it so I can't tell you how much difference it makes. It is well made and a good, but a little pricey. I've tried different mash schedules, from multi-step (beta and alpha amalyse rests) including protein rests and mashout. My clearest beer was my first which included a protein rest at 122F for 30 minutes, a saccrification rest at 148F for 75 minutes and mashout at 168F for 10 minutes. I also used the schedule that came programmed in the BM, and other variations that increased/decreased rest times at different temperatures. This is the real benefit of the BM. By the way in my last two batches I used a homemade heat stick (1500w) to get a vigorous boil going. I wont know if it made a difference for a few weeks.

Thanks for the input as I was wondering if a longer protein rest made a difference. I've noticed in my last cooler / batch sparge batch, a pre-prohibition lager for my grandfather, that it came out extremely clear compared to past batches - and it was my first all grain batch where I inserted a 20 minute protein rest at 122f.

 

[makomachine]

Pulled the trigger on the 20L version and insulating jacket from morebeer.com. I won't receive it until late July as I've got a vacation overlapping when it's coming. Will update everyone with my impressions and initial brew experience.

 

[DeGarre]

About the haze/cloudiness: for me the wort after mash was perfectly clear, but somehow got cloudy during the boil, I have now bottled one batch, 4 days ago, and it looks very cloudy.

About cooling after boil for the yeast pitch: I bought the 20L starter set so I have the BM provided IC. I run cold water through it from my well, very slow trickle really. First 10 degrees c down to 90c it cools in 1 minute max, the temp goes down very steadily to 20 degrees, no stops, in 20-25 mins. I run the water very slow and it uses about 4 buckets of water in total, which I then use for watering the plants. Very happy about that.

 

[Yambor44]

Replaced the impellers that Speidel sent to me and the pumps are whisper quiet once again. However....I have a new challenge (video DLing now). My wort keeps shooting out the lid!

I paused the unit, re-stirred the mash and it went another 3-4 minutes and did it again. I paused, let the mash settle and it went another 3-4 minutes and happened again, this time on camera.

Anyone else experience this? The only thing different that I can think of are the impellers. Maybe too much pressure now?

 

[makomachine]

Replaced the impellers that Speidel sent to me and the pumps are whisper quiet once again. However....I have a new challenge (video DLing now). My wort keeps shooting out the lid!

I paused the unit, re-stirred the mash and it went another 3-4 minutes and did it again. I paused, let the mash settle and it went another 3-4 minutes and happened again, this time on camera.

Anyone else experience this? The only thing different that I can think of are the impellers. Maybe too much pressure now?

How many pounds of grain and what is the grain bill? I read somewhere that if you have too fine a crush with a lot of grain you can cause it to "fountain".

Found the post from the more beer forum, quoted below.

Im kinda curious, how are you getting 1.065 wort when the system limitations are 1.057? you adding dme?

I was surprised to see MoreBeer quote a 1.057 system limit, as there is certainly no problem brewing stronger beer on the system (without DME or a very long boil time). You might have problems with stronger brews than 1.057 if you follow the user guide, which by the way is a horrible translation from German, and do not sparge.

Another thing I find hard to believe that your getting 75 to 80% sparging, because in order to reach the 75 to 80% range your sparge would exceed the starting volume capacities of the system. Am I missing something?

You mash with 22-23 liters of water, which is what you need to cover the heating elements when the wort is pumped through the malt pipe. When you lift the malt pipe, there is room for 27 liters underneath the pipe and you can sparge with almost 10 liters of water. The kettle is just under 40 liters, I believe.

If you use the 50 liter version, these numbers are different and if you use the 50 liter version with the short malt pipe you can sparge with "unlimited" amounts of water.

The milling is also important when using this system. I have had the best efficiency when I almost have a stuck mash and the sparging is slightly slower, but too fine milling and the pump will start to build pressure under the malt and the wort will make a channel resulting in a volcano effect. If that happens, you'd better keep the lid on and reach for the pause button.

 

[waynemil]

Hi Guys,

After mashing I lift out the malt pipe and pour about 2 liters of hot water through to get residual sugars.I use whirl floc tablets with 20 minutes left in the boil. I use the pump while chilling with the immersion chiller. cools in about 15 minutes. I dump everything in the fermenter and after about a week switch to a secondary, leaving behind all the crud. After 3 brews, all were crystal clear in the glass and very good.
Hope this helps,

Wayne

 

[makomachine]

Hi Guys,

After mashing I lift out the malt pipe and pour about 2 liters of hot water through to get residual sugars.I use whirl floc tablets with 20 minutes left in the boil. I use the pump while chilling with the immersion chiller. cools in about 15 minutes. I dump everything in the fermenter and after about a week switch to a secondary, leaving behind all the crud. After 3 brews, all were crystal clear in the glass and very good.
Hope this helps,

Wayne

Wayne - thanks for the feedback! Which version do you own, the 20L or 40L? What mash schedule are you running?

 

[Yambor44]

How many pounds of grain and what is the grain bill? I read somewhere that if you have too fine a crush with a lot of grain you can cause it to "fountain".

Found the post from the more beer forum, quoted below.

My grain bill:

17 lbs 2 Row
1 lb 60L
1 lb Cara-Pils

I wonder about the crush sometimes. However, I have done 4 other sessions with zero problems. Would almost have to be a "stuck mash" based on the info you mentioned (pumps building too much pressure) which you will hear me speak of too much pressure in my video. Still loading to YouTube. When it is done I will post here.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Yambor44]

Hi Guys,

After mashing I lift out the malt pipe and pour about 2 liters of hot water through to get residual sugars.I use whirl floc tablets with 20 minutes left in the boil. I use the pump while chilling with the immersion chiller. cools in about 15 minutes. I dump everything in the fermenter and after about a week switch to a secondary, leaving behind all the crud. After 3 brews, all were crystal clear in the glass and very good.
Hope this helps,

Wayne

I actually did this today with 1 gallon of 188 degree water. I had to abort my mash session so I figured the mash had been "mashing" sitting still for over an hour total so I would just rinse and get the boil started.

As DeGarre mentioned, do you run your water at a very slow rate thru your chiller? I use a sump pump from Harbor Freight and it has one speed...wide open. I found a way to throttle it so I was thinking of trying the Speidel chiller once more and slow the ice water.

 

[Yambor44]

 

[Yambor44]

Here's what I found after I drained the wort. One big channel.

 

[Yambor44]

BTW...

Anyone needing/wanting a 50L Stainless Steel IC let me know. I paid $240 for it, will ship to anywhere in the lower 48 for $120.00. I can accept PayPal if need be.

http://www.morebeer4u.com/11.html

 

[makomachine]

So you think it's tied to too fine a crush or another issue? One way to determine would be to add 1/2 lb of rice hulls to your next batch and see if that resolves it.

 

[Yambor44]

So you think it's tied to too fine a crush or another issue? One way to determine would be to add 1/2 lb of rice hulls to your next batch and see if that resolves it.

Not sure. I made 4 batches with the same crush, one was the exact same grain bill so I'm at a lose.

I know I will be a little gun shy the next brew session. I want to brew another batch tomorrow (get back on the horse so to speak) but it is my wife's birthday so I think I will have to wait until next weekend.

 

[waynemil]

Hi,
I have the 20L. I have been using beer alchemy for mac, I just got beersmith 2 for mac. I will try the biab profile and make adjustments. For my previous batches(5-gallon), I have been using the northern brewer recipes that you can get from their site. I fill to 25 liters and have been adding about 10% more base malt due to no sparge(although folks here say it is not necessary). After the mash is complete, i leave the top filter on, lift, and pour about 2 liters of 170degree water through the top. That gets me close to 25l again, and I toppoff as necessary to start the boil with 25l. After boil, I chill with pump on and empty almost everything into the fermenter. Doing it this way, when I transfer to the secondary, I have been within plus or minus one liter filling the 5 gallon keg. I might add 1 more liter to the preboil next time.

hope this helps,

Wayne

Wayne - thanks for the feedback! Which version do you own, the 20L or 40L? What mash schedule are you running?

 

[waynemil]

I just put my cold water on full blast through the chiller, turn the pump on and swirl the chiller around every 5-6 minutes. cools in 15 or so minutes even on a hot California day.

I actually did this today with 1 gallon of 188 degree water. I had to abort my mash session so I figured the mash had been "mashing" sitting still for over an hour total so I would just rinse and get the boil started.

As DeGarre mentioned, do you run your water at a very slow rate thru your chiller? I use a sump pump from Harbor Freight and it has one speed...wide open. I found a way to throttle it so I was thinking of trying the Speidel chiller once more and slow the ice water.

 

[beradthefish]

I'd like to hear a bit more about the OG limitation of 1.057 on this system (according to morebeer). I read a few months back in this thread but didn't see this addressed, maybe I missed it. It seems to me that the 50l system could easily brew a 20l batch of a big barleywine etc. Thanks.

 

[Yambor44]

I just put my cold water on full blast through the chiller, turn the pump on and swirl the chiller around every 5-6 minutes. cools in 15 or so minutes even on a hot California day.

Man I don't know what the deal is then. I know for my system, the chiller works best if the water running thru it is fast. Yesterday took over an hour at the slow water rate.

I have done just as you described twice and both times it took 45-50 minutes to get to 68.

 

[Yambor44]

Here's what my crush looks like. Thoughts?

Click on the pic if you need to make it larger for more detail.