Sparkling Hard Cider - Stop fermentation but allow carbonation

[LeslieK]

Currently making a hard black cherry cider using canned cherries (fruit wine base), and an English ale yeast. Everything is working fabulously thus far. Fruit fermentation is complete, fruit has been strained and removed, and the brew is currently in a secondary vessel with a blow off tube rather than a fermentation lock. We want a sparkling cider, but want to avoid any bottle bombs. My question is, how can we stop the fermentation, but still allow carbonation? Everything I have read states that if you add potassium sorbate to stop the fermentation process, there is no chance of carbonation in the bottles. We're newbies, so any help/advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the time and consideration!

Leslie K.

 

[dmtaylor]

Sorbate doesn't kill yeast, it just prevents them from reproducing. Assuming you still have some live yeast in your cider, you can add sorbate to stabilize AND priming sugar and still get natural carbonation. Time and patience are also beneficial. If you can add the sorbate, then chill the cider down and wait a couple of weeks before priming and bottling, this will improve stability and prevent bottle bombs. You'll still get your carbonation though. The yeast isn't killed, but more will settle out, especially if you can chill it down (to like 32 F if possible).

 

[LeslieK]

Awesome, thanks! Yes, there is definitely still live yeast. And I got nothin' but time, so that's not an issue. The 32 degrees is a bit more of an issue, but maybe it's time to invest in a chiller specifically for this purpose....

Thanks again for your time!

 

[stpug]

It would be done the same as beer.

Let the cider ferment fully (and settle), rack to bottling bucket and mix in your priming sugar, bottle and cap. As long as you're using an appropriate amount of priming sugar for the carbonation level you desire and bottles you're using, then you'll get well carbed cider after a few weeks at room temp.

NOW, if you want to backsweeten, then the story is quite different.

 

[LeslieK]

No back sweetening necessary. It's perfect as is. But it's def still fermenting. Yeast is still alive and well....

 

[dmtaylor]

I should have also mentioned.... gelatin can be used to remove about 90% of the yeast over the course of about 36 hours. Dissolve about 1 teaspoon unflavored gelatin in a half cup of hot water, and pour that into your cider. Wait a couple of days. The cider is now crystal clear and is much easier to stabilize. Again, you still would want to keep it cold for a while and add sorbate to prevent bombs, but there will still be enough yeast present to carbonate for you.

 

[LeslieK]

Yup, we have gelatin finings to add as well. Great to hear we are on the right track!

 

[LeslieK]

One more quick question, We also have campden tablets, and were told to put them in before fermentation, which we did, but also again when we add the potassium sorbate. Can you pls explain the purpose of this, and if we should indeed do so?

 

[dmtaylor]

Everyone in the world except for me will tell you that sorbate is more effective if you add Campden along with it. Personally, I don't use Campden at all as I haven't found it necessary or beneficial; in fact the opposite is true in my opinion. Campden is great at killing bacteria, which hopefully should not be present in your finished cider, but much like the sorbate, it doesn't kill yeast. Campden also adds sulfur to the cider, which is bad enough, but it also stresses out the remaining yeast, which causes even more sulfur gases to be generated. Skip the Campden and you won't get as much sulfur, if any. That's my stance. Campden also serves as a preservative, which might be good if you want to age your cider for many years. But if you think you will drink it all within 6-12 months, then why not skip it.

My opinions. No one else might agree with me, but I think I'm right anyway.

 

[LeslieK]

Sold! No campden it is!

 

[Maylar]

And the other side of that coin is...

Potassium sorbate alone has a tendency to create flowery aromas, usually identified as geraniums. It's one of the common faults listed for wines. I dunno the chemistry behind it, but I do know that adding 50 ppm of metabisulfite prevents it.

Ya pays yer money, and ya takes yer chances.

 

[bernardsmith]

The purpose of adding K-meta (the Campden tabs without filler) with K-sorbate is for several reasons. The two chemicals when added in tandem to a wine that has virtually no viable and no vital yeast (because you have been racking and aging the wine) is to prevent those present from budding (AKA reproducing)( that's the function of the K-sorbate) and inhibit those left from fermenting. If you add sorbate and not K-meta that generation can still ferment and if you add K-meta and not sorbate, there is very little that the K-meta will do to prevent a large enough colony from reproducing so they won't ferment today or tomorrow but they will in a week or so...
The other standard purpose of adding K-meta is that the free SO2 that is produced will help inhibit oxidation. Not important if you make a cider and intend to drink your barrels dry in a few weeks but if , like many wine makers, you intend to age your wines (and ciders) for 12 months or a few years then preventing oxidation is an issue.
dmtaylor argues that you should avoid adding K-meta (or Campden ) because the SO2 stresses the yeast but there should be no yeast in your cider when you are bottling it. Moreover, the main reason why the yeast produce enough SO2 for you to detect is because of poor protocol. And if you are adding the minimum amount of K-meta to inhibit oxidation and with K-sorbate to stabilize the fermentation in order to back sweeten then you should not really be able to detect the SO2 after the period that when makers call "bottle shock" .

 

[Yooper]

My experience is different than dmtaylors. Using sorbate without campden means it's less effective, and geraniol can be an issue.

The other thing I've found is that you can have still sweetened bottled cider, or dry sparkling cider, but trying to inhibit the yeast to keep the sweetness while still not adding enough sorbate as to allow carbonation will almost always mean bottle bombs.

Bottling a still fermenting cider without pasteurizing it at the appropriate time generally is an explosive proposition.

 

[RugenBrau]

Haven't been around in a few years and just started to make cider again. In the past I've always bottled condition but I'm trying to stabilize my cider with k meta and sorbate. My cider is at 1.004 and I have it cold crashed. My container of k-meta says 1/4 t. Per 5 gallons but many here say 1 campden tablet per gallon. Which is correct? Is it possible that the powdered form is more concentrated than the tablet?
I

 

[dmtaylor]

The Campden tablets I have are approximately 1/4 teaspoon, so... good question.

I's gonna delete my post, but I don't know how!

 

[Maylar]

Yes, the tablets have a filler in them. Makes it easier to dose a small batch.

 

[MarkKF]

While on the subject how much sorbate per gallon.

 

[stpug]

While on the subject how much sorbate per gallon.

1/2 tsp per gallon

 

[SirCasio]

It would be done the same as beer.

Let the cider ferment fully (and settle), rack to bottling bucket and mix in your priming sugar, bottle and cap. As long as you're using an appropriate amount of priming sugar for the carbonation level you desire and bottles you're using, then you'll get well carbed cider after a few weeks at room temp.

NOW, if you want to backsweeten, then the story is quite different.

So if I want to add some frozen cranberry juice concentrate, but still want to bottle, what's the story?

 

[stpug]

So if I want to add some frozen cranberry juice concentrate, but still want to bottle, what's the story?

From what I understand, cranberry juice has naturally occurring sodium benzoate which has microbial control features. Depending on how much you add, you may halt any further microbial activity in the brew, or you may just slow down it's activity to a sluggish pace. In the latter case, if you were still looking for a full refermentation then you would just need to wait it out.

If the cranberry juice is being used for flavor and priming, but you still want a dry cider, then adding the appropriate amount of it to get the sugars you need for carbonation would still be the same. No priming sugar; priming juice instead.

Alternatively, for flavor only, you can added the cranberry juice towards the tail end of primary fermentation and let it re-ferment the juice sugars. When it's done. Package as you want.

If you're looking to backsweeten the side using the cranberry juice then you need to look into one of the various methods of stabilization.

I guess it depends on how that juice is going to contribute to the final produce, and what characteristics you expect in the final product.

 

[MarkKF]

I use Craisins in a food processor. If they're going in the secondary you can put em in a hop bag.