Sour Yeast Starters

[specharka]

I apologize if this is a repost.

I have been trying to build my armory of sour dregs up so I can start assertively souring some of my existing beers in the pipeline & accelerate their maturation process. Found a pretty helpful database on the MF blog:

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/dreg-list.html

My question is related to two of the sour dregs that I recently pitched to a 500 mL starter (Crooked Stave St. Bretta and Nightmare on Brett). After pitching the St. Bretta, there was almost zero activity for 3 days, so I added the Nightmare on Brett dregs and fermentation took off like a wild boar. Both were bottled around the same time period (Fall 2014).

What is the maturation period for sour bugs in a starter environment?
Can you decant and pitch sour bugs by themselves, as you would for Sacc starters?
Where can I find the same heavy bottles so I don't risk bottle bombs?

I appreciate any input!

 

[sweetcell]

there was almost zero activity for 3 days,

Crooked Stave ferments with brett only, or brett and bugs. brett is slow, typically takes a week to take off. no activity for 3 days isn't surprising.

After pitching the St. Bretta, there was almost zero activity for 3 days, so I added the Nightmare on Brett dregs and fermentation took off like a wild boar.

this makes me think there might have been some sacch in there. CS is supposed to be a brett-only brewery, but maybe something snuck in there. or maybe, by coincidence, the dregs from the first bottle happen to take off at that time.

What is the maturation period for sour bugs in a starter environment?

brett should be done growing in 7-10 days. lacto can be a lot faster, like a day or two, under the right conditions (warmth) - i don't know what it's growth curve is like a room temp. pedio is a lot slower... like months.

so it depends what growth you're looking for.

Can you decant and pitch sour bugs by themselves, as you would for Sacc starters?

you can, but most brett and bugs tend to be poor flocculators. so maybe crash and decant some of the clearer beer on top, but i'd leave some behind - more than with a sacch starter.

Where can I find the same heavy bottles so I don't risk bottle bombs?

i know MoreBeer sells some, i assume other online shops do too. search for "belgian bottles" or "thick bottles". personally, i got mine from drinking belgians and sour/wild beers and de-labeling the bottles

 

[TAK]

maybe, by coincidence, the dregs from the first bottle happen to take off at that time.

I bet this is the case. I've done a lot if starters with crooked stave bottles. For a while I was doing one with every bottle I opened and building up an army. They tend to take off for me around 3-5 days (in 150-200ml of 1.020-1.025 wort / bottle).

 

[SanPancho]

check out the blog at milk the funk. alot of good stuff about culturing wild yeasts (bretts) and sour bugs (lacto, pedio).

im having good luck keeping lacto at warm room temps, say 70s or so, with DME, 10% apple juice, and a little peice of plain white chalk- it helps counter the acid buildup in the starter. no stirring or shaking, it should be anaerobic.

lacto will floc out, you'll see a bunch on the bottom. you can either mix it up and pour off half the starter, or use a clean spoon and scrape a bunch off the bottom to pitch directly if you think you'll have enough for your batch.

 

[m00ps]

I save heavy bottles to use for my wild stuff. Most american sours that arent in a cork/cage bottle will fit with a standard cap and capper. If you dont want to have to keep buying individual expensive sours, ive found that Deschutes and Stone both have bottles that are easy to clean and notably heavier than most 12oz longnecks (which are 195-205g usually)

my sour starters never have too much activity. There may had been some sacch in there at some point, but I think it was too unhealthy or outcompeted by the bugs. Just taste a bit of it and see how its doing. You should be able to get at least a tinge of sour after few weeks

 

[specharka]

Got around to tasting and testing the starter tonight. There is an incredible amount of sediment for a sour starter, even without decanting. Which pretty much supports the notion that there was some viable sacc left in the dregs. Doesn't bother me, since there are definitely bugs at work.

Gravity was hovering around 1.002 today, and souring is getting more pronounced. It's got a bit of a cherry pie aroma. I am not sure if this is indicative of Brett L activity.

The Saison-Brett (SG 0.994) in my pipeline is actually a considerable bit more tart than my starter. Will the addition of more Brett dregs boost its souring potential, considering how far my beer has already come?

I definitely want to decant this, as my starter wort is not the greatest quality...final runnings from a DIPA.

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