Sour Cherry Wheat (Fast and Fake Kriek)

[Bisco_Ben]

Hey guys, so I ran into a little trouble with my sour mashed recipe today and was wondering if anyone could help. I did the 3lbs pilsner in 1 gallon of water sour mash (mashed around 170-180 for the whole 50 minutes unfortunately as I over heated my strike water). When I took it out today (after 3 days) it had a nice but sort of faint sour dough smell and clearly soured at least a little. I went with 5lb's wheat, 2lbs pils and .75lb sour malt in the main mash in order to achieve a lower gravity (was aiming for 1.055). I normally get around 75-80% efficiency with similar gravity wheat beers, but I wound up at 1.045 instead with this beer (~60%). I added the entire sour mash to my main mash right before draining the first runnings and gave it a very thorough 20 minute batch sparge. I am just very confused about how I could have had such low efficiency with this batch. Also note that I didnt stir the hell out of the 3lb mini sour mash as I was trying to limit oxygen. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

 

[dfborn]

Anyone try this as a kettle sour instead of a sour mash? Think it would work?

 

[bill402]

What's the longest you'd let the sour mash go? Mashed it on Wednesday for this past Sunday, but got sick and missed my brew day. If I brew on Friday evening, it will have been sitting for 9 days.

 

[pdx_brewer]

Anyone try this as a kettle sour instead of a sour mash? Think it would work?

Absolutely! I currently have a very similar version of beer (except kettle soured) in secondary and it is tasting fantastic. I used about 5-6 Goodbelly LP299v pills (L. Plantarum) in about 7'ish gallons of wort. Let it ride for 48 hours and it was down to a pH of 3.4.

 

[meridianomrebel]

I'm brewing this on Saturday.

 

[meridianomrebel]

I thought I'd share my notes from this brew:

10/18: I brewed up my sour mash using Wyeast 5335. I kept that wrapped up in an electric blanket with the temp set to low.

10/18-10/22: Monitored temperature. Temp fluctuated between 100-110F for the most part. Very little visual fermentation detectable.

10/22: Normal brew day (using BIAB). Sour mash had a nice sourdough odor to it. Followed OP instructions. Pitched WLP320 once temp came down, sat it in a plastic bag with ice packs.

10/23: Very active fermenation. Blowoff tube needed.

10/24: Very thankful I added the blowoff tube - very happy yeasties.

11/05: Racked to secondary on top of 32oz of King Orchard's Tart Cherry Concentrate.

11/05-11/19: No activity in the airlock.

11/19: Kegged 2.5 gallons, bottled remaining. Keg set to 30psi.

11/20: Added gelatin to keg.

11/21: Keg set to 12psi.

11/24: Poured a couple samples from keg. Very cloudy with a thick pink head. Cherry odor. Taste is very tart and has off flavor from the use of concentrate. Maybe 16oz of concentrate would have been better?

11/27: Still very "cloudy" with off flavor from concentrate. Very tart, not really any sour. Carbonation is very good though. Head is more white than pink now.

So, I am thinking that my problem was using the cherry concentrate. If I ever do this again, I'd either use real cherries or go with a cherry puree. I was trying to save some money on the cherries, and that was a mistake. The strange off flavor from the concentrate is a bit hard to deal with. I'm hoping this gets better over time in the bottles, because it's really not a good beer - but that's my fault for using concentrate.

 

[Crohnnie]

I thought I'd share my notes from this brew:

10/18: I brewed up my sour mash using Wyeast 5335. I kept that wrapped up in an electric blanket with the temp set to low.

10/18-10/22: Monitored temperature. Temp fluctuated between 100-110F for the most part. Very little visual fermentation detectable.

10/22: Normal brew day (using BIAB). Sour mash had a nice sourdough odor to it. Followed OP instructions. Pitched WLP320 once temp came down, sat it in a plastic bag with ice packs.

10/23: Very active fermenation. Blowoff tube needed.

10/24: Very thankful I added the blowoff tube - very happy yeasties.

11/05: Racked to secondary on top of 32oz of King Orchard's Tart Cherry Concentrate.

11/05-11/19: No activity in the airlock.

11/19: Kegged 2.5 gallons, bottled remaining. Keg set to 30psi.

11/20: Added gelatin to keg.

11/21: Keg set to 12psi.

11/24: Poured a couple samples from keg. Very cloudy with a thick pink head. Cherry odor. Taste is very tart and has off flavor from the use of concentrate. Maybe 16oz of concentrate would have been better?

11/27: Still very "cloudy" with off flavor from concentrate. Very tart, not really any sour. Carbonation is very good though. Head is more white than pink now.

So, I am thinking that my problem was using the cherry concentrate. If I ever do this again, I'd either use real cherries or go with a cherry puree. I was trying to save some money on the cherries, and that was a mistake. The strange off flavor from the concentrate is a bit hard to deal with. I'm hoping this gets better over time in the bottles, because it's really not a good beer - but that's my fault for using concentrate.

Maybe it's just too bitter from unripe cherries used in the concentrate? I just used some tart cherry preserve in a wheat beer. What's it taste like? It looks pretty good

 

[Buxton]

I thought I'd share my notes from this brew:

10/18: I brewed up my sour mash using Wyeast 5335. I kept that wrapped up in an electric blanket with the temp set to low.

10/18-10/22: Monitored temperature. Temp fluctuated between 100-110F for the most part. Very little visual fermentation detectable.

10/22: Normal brew day (using BIAB). Sour mash had a nice sourdough odor to it. Followed OP instructions. Pitched WLP320 once temp came down, sat it in a plastic bag with ice packs.

10/23: Very active fermenation. Blowoff tube needed.

10/24: Very thankful I added the blowoff tube - very happy yeasties.

11/05: Racked to secondary on top of 32oz of King Orchard's Tart Cherry Concentrate.

11/05-11/19: No activity in the airlock.

11/19: Kegged 2.5 gallons, bottled remaining. Keg set to 30psi.

11/20: Added gelatin to keg.

11/21: Keg set to 12psi.

11/24: Poured a couple samples from keg. Very cloudy with a thick pink head. Cherry odor. Taste is very tart and has off flavor from the use of concentrate. Maybe 16oz of concentrate would have been better?

11/27: Still very "cloudy" with off flavor from concentrate. Very tart, not really any sour. Carbonation is very good though. Head is more white than pink now.

So, I am thinking that my problem was using the cherry concentrate. If I ever do this again, I'd either use real cherries or go with a cherry puree. I was trying to save some money on the cherries, and that was a mistake. The strange off flavor from the concentrate is a bit hard to deal with. I'm hoping this gets better over time in the bottles, because it's really not a good beer - but that's my fault for using concentrate.

I would recommend using Pectic Enzyme to help you reduce haze from fruit/pectin.

 

[bill402]

Anyone ever try this with grapefruit? I did it with raspberries and it was stellar. Should I add juice to the boil (and if so, how much for a 5 gal) and then take a vegetable peel and add strips to the secondary? What about raw fruit in there?

 

[mrkrausen]

So I've read over this thread a few times now and read the BYO article as well. My plan is to do a 10 gallon batch. Half of it will be a wedding gift for my girlfriend's sister and her fiance that are getting married at the end of January and the rest is for will be for home consumption. I'm thinking of a grain bill of 11 pounds of white wheat malt 11 pounds of pilsner malt and about 12 ounces of acid malt. I still need to put it into beersmith to get the final numbers on the grain bill. My plan is to mash half of the pilsner malt like recommended and then split the 5.5 pounds of pilsner malt into two separate crock pots, both hooked up to temp controllers. Another option is leaving it in the aluminum pot, flushing with co2, placing the plastic wrap over it and wrapping it in a fermwrap connected to a temp controller. I have one vial of WL677 that I was going to split between the crock pots and let sit for 3 days. I would then brew as normal on brew day. I would kind of like to use two different types of fruit, as I will be splitting this into two 5 gallon batches. Do you think it's necessary in the flavor development to add the fruit during the boil and to the secondary like suggested, or could I just add all of the fruit during secondary? Also, I'm thinking of doing the initial mash in a aluminum pot at the suggested temperature and then putting it in the oven to maintain the temperature. Has anyone else done that and does it sound reasonable? Thanks!

 

[GoeHaarden]

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[zonkman]

Hi all,

Planning on getting this going tomorrow. Super excited.

The only problem is.... all brew shops seem to be out of Wyeast 5335. Kind of down to 2 choices:

1. Use a handful (?) of unmilled Pilsner instead, rely on its bugs, what happens happens.

2. Go with Omega OYL-605. Anyone have experience with this? Same procedure for the sour mash, same temp? It seems different - http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Lactobacillus - than the Wyeast 5335.

Any help hugely appreciated.

Many thanks,
Z

 

[Golyo]

...and about 12 ounces of acid malt.

As I understand the sour mash will bring the pH way down, so using acid malt is not a good idea. Using chalk to increase the pH was recommended and also using more yeast than you'd normally do.

 

[zonkman]

So, I sour mashed in 2 x 1 gallon carboys. The one smelled horendous and was discarded. The other smelt only faintly cheese-meets-vomity and was added to the boil. Last night I racked to secondary containing the 5lb cherries. The smell is still there, strong enough for me to resist tasting it (but not outright putrid).

I am thinking of pitching some brett.

Should I? And can I leave it on the cherries for the months it takes to do it's thing? If not, I'm not sure it's worth it. Haven't yet discarded a batch. Reluctant. Any other suggestions?

 

[phoney]

I started my sour mash yesterday. The pot is sitting in an urn filled with water and an STC1000 is keeping the temperature steady between 116 and 117F.

Its already smelling and looking very funky. I BIAB and therefore dont have a lauter. At what stage should I add the sour mash to the main mash? After mashout at 172F and before hoisting the bag?

 

[updog]

im thinking about doing a 10 gallon batch and splitting it up 5 gallons clean hefe, 5 gallons fake kriek. I think, instead of sour mashing, I will use a couple pounds of dry pilsner extract and sour that for a couple days then boil it and then add it to the 5 gallons that I want to be sour. That way my clean beer and sour beer can all come from the same mash without contamination. any thoughts?

 

[Shredbetty]

My Notes:

1. I made the Sour Mash as instructed, using a sous vide for the initial holding. I highly recommend this as it was effortless, and made the mash day go quickly. Then I poured the mash into a small cooler, wrapped the cooler with a heating pad on low, and covered the whole thing with a blanket. Let sit for two days and sour was perfect.

2. Added mash at sparge and initial flavor was awesome.

3. I added Irish Moss @30, and also brewers licorice (because I like a slightly creamier head and sours usually have a thin head)

4. Used frozen cherries, which I added after 5 days (did not boil them), then let sit for 4 weeks.

5. Excellent.

Using the same technique, I am planning to make a farmhouse version. Thank you for the recipe.