Sorry to be that guy.... question about my first brew

[tampa911]

So I recently decided to try my hand at brewing. My wife and I took a class at a local supply shop and she bought me a starter kit for Valentines day. I supplemented the kit with a few odds and ends and did my first extract brew with specialty grains over the weekend.

The brew was good, I bucketed everything up and started seeing activity in the airlock after a few hours. I did some reading the next day and started second guessing some of my decisions.

I have a sealed 6 gallon bucket, and a 6 gallon bottling bucket with a tap. I poured the wort into the sealed bucket for primary fermentation thinking I would rack to the bottling bucket after a week. I did not realize that the best way to add sugar was by transfering to the bottling bucket on bottling day. Also I did not remove any of the solids from the brew when I transfered to the primary fermentation bucket.

Given these two "errors" I figured I might as well swap buckets early. I did not want my beer sitting on the trub and solids for 3 weeks and I read that beer needs oxygen for the first 24 hours and that it was bad at any point after, so I figured better to do it early, rather than swapping buckets back and forth later.

After about 30 hours of fermentation the airlock was still bubbling once every 10 - 15 seconds. I sterilized my bottling bucket, syphon and hose and decided to gently swap buckets, leaving the solids behind.

At that point all activity in the airlock stopped. I went to another brewing supplier in town the following day and explained the situation. They recomended pitching again sooner rather than later. Last night (roughly 50 hours into fermentiation) I pitched another dry yeast and today, 24 hours after re-pitching still zero activity.

When I looked in the bucket last night there were a few white spots floating on the surface of the beer, but no real "foam". These looked more like what grease would look like if it solidified on the surface (smaller than a dime, with maybe 5 or 6 spots floating).

I tested the seal on the bucket and it seems good. (if I press down on the lid and hold constant pressure the water in the airlock moves and holds its position until I let go). Last night I placed a gallon jug of Star-San mix on top of the bucket just to ensure the seal is holding. To compound the issue, I had a hydrometer but it did not come with a tube and I did not have a container deep enough so I skipped a gravity reading on brew day. (I have a tube now)

What should I do at this point if anything?

 

[GenIke]

take a gravity reading and let us know what is. In the future, if you sanitize the hydrometer you can put it right in the bucket.

There's really no problem leaving the trub in the bucket IMO.

 

[stavale8099]

From personal experience, you cannot assume your yeast isn't working if you did not see activity after 1 day! I cannot imagine that you had that much debris in your wort if you did an extract brew even w/ specialty grains. Best bet (IMO) would have been to probably just leave it alone for a week and not touch it. As it stands now, I would just leave it alone for a week and not touch it! Let the yeast do their thing and keep the post updated as to how it looks. If you can get a graduated cylinder (from your brewhouse or online) you can use that in the future to fill with wort and use your hydrometer if your bucket isn't deep enough.

 

[stavale8099]

Just to give you a reference - my current batch did not even start to ferment for 72h Apparently that is not uncommon Im sure you are probably still in good shape. Unless there is contamination it is difficult to screw up an all-extract brew

 

[dozer5454]

You could get a basic idea of your starting gravity buy positing you recipe. While your figuring the SG leave the fermenter alone as long as the beer is around the 68 degree mark. Give it three weeks and then take a sample. There is a high likelyhood that by opening the lid all the time you may not see any bubbles. For the future, don't second guess yourself. Trub has found its way into many a bucket and the beer has still come out great. Yeast does a great job of not only producing beer but compacting itself as well as the undesirables. As long as everything remained sanitary you should still have a great beer.

 

[ScottG58]

I have heard others say that you can take a gravity reading using the tube the hydrometer came in. I have not tried it. If you used a kit, you can compare your current gravity with the gravity predicted by the kit. Look at the sample. A lot of the beers I brew tell me they are done when they clear. Taste the sample. The taste of the beer can tell you a lot about what is going on with it. If the gravity is high and it doesn't taste like beer, leave it alone with the yeast for awhile. If it tastes like beer and you are near predicted gravity, wait three days and take another gravity reading and see if they are the same. If the gravity changes, wait three more days. You want to make sure the beer is finished fermenting before you bottle or you could end up with gushers or bottle bombs. White spots are likely yeast rafts. Normal fermentation can look and smell downright abnormal. On your next brew, try to leave the beer alone in primary at least two and maybe three weeks. You want to give the yeast a chance to finish.

 

[tampa911]

Thanks for all the super fast responses. My concern is that I was initially seeing activity and then it stopped once I moved to a secondary container. I have read that 72 hours is acceptable, it is just concerning that there was activity right up to the point of swapping containers, and now there has been none for over 48 hours with an addition of yeast.

I have only opened the bucket to do the original swap and to pitch the second batch of yeast. When I opened the bucket last night I was as gentle as I could be not to disturb the CO2 blanket (if there was one at all).

I have a graduated cylnder now and will take a hydrometer reading from the tap on the bottom of the bucket and post it shortly. It just stinks I have nothing to compare it to before it started fermenting.

 

[WyomingBrewer]

Just a couple of thoughts here. You were fine up to the point when you decided to transfer to the bottling bucket. Its fine to leave everything in the primary fermenter for 3-4 weeks, and actually thats what a lot of people including myself do. 3 weeks primary, boil and cool priming sugar in a cup of water, cool, put in the bottling bucket and transfer the beer on it. The swirling motion of the beer mixes it enough, dont splash. Then, after that many hours of fermenting its likely that the beer was actually done fermenting. Repitching wont do anything if thats the case. So since you didnt get an original gravity reading the best thing to do is look at the recipe and see what the final gravity should be. I bet youre very close to it. Take a reading 3 days in a row and if it doesnt change its done. I would still let it sit for a couple weeks before I bottled it. So now your beer is already in the bottling bucket? Then mixing in the priming sugar will be challenging without stirring up the trub but Its not worth transfering again at this point and risking oxidation. So on bottling day get your priming sugar ready and cooled, pour it in and gently, very gently, stir it in with a sanitized spoon trying to not disturb the bottom as much as possible then bottle. Having said all that, its not a total loss or anything. You made beer!!! Congratulations! You will get it down with practice. Relax, Dont Worry, Have a Homebrew!

 

[flyte74]

1)I did not realize that the best way to add sugar was by transfering to the bottling bucket on bottling day.

2) Also I did not remove any of the solids from the brew when I transfered to the primary fermentation bucket.

3)Given these two "errors" I figured I might as well swap buckets early. I did not want my beer sitting on the trub

4)At that point all activity in the airlock stopped.

5)I went to another brewing supplier in town the following day and explained the situation. They recomended pitching again sooner rather than later.

6)When I looked in the bucket last night there were a few white spots floating on the surface of the beer, but no real "foam".

7)What should I do at this point if anything?

1) That is the best way to do it for sure. If you add sugar say a day prior to bottling, the yeast will eat through it.
2) There was really no reason to worry about the trub. Two schools of thought though. I have done brews where I pour everything into primary, and I have done brews where I strained the wort going into primary. No discernable taste to me. I've let beers sit on unstrained trub for up to six weeks in primary.
3) To me, this is actually when you started making "errors." You want to avoid racking over and over. You increase your chances of infection and oxidation.
4) Airlock activity is not a good indicator to base fermentation on. Use a hydrometer next time.
5) Not BAD advice, but maybe a little premature?
6) Could be yeast clumps, could be infection, could be pieces of hops floating around. I'm thinking yeast clumps. Take a pic and post it up.
7)RDWHAHB. Your beer will probably be fine. Let it finish fermenting, bottle it up and drink it a few weeks later.

 

[Cummins9320]

You are a long ways away from having to worry about beer sitting on trub, and the slight if any flavors it could produce. After a few brews you won't be so anxious, and will let beer do its thing, you should make sure you keep it on the warm side to promote yeast activity, and chock it up as experience for next time. Hopefully you are using a hydrometer, it will tell you (and us) lots about how things are going.

 

[stpug]

It's very unlikely that you would see actual fermentation activity within a couple/few hours of pitching yeast unless you are pitching a huge quantity of active yeast which I doubt you did (did you?). I would suspect that what you were seeing was simply temperature equalization activity (i.e. the beer acclimating to room temp) causing the pressure variance.

Your first instincts were correct. Put everything in your primary bucket and let it finish up. Then the next step requires a little faith - leave it there for a couple more weeks and don't peek. After 2-3 weeks in the bucket, transfer to your bottling bucket with some added priming sugar that's been boiled in a little water, and bottle up the entire batch.

Because you transferred within 2 days of initial pitching of yeast I suspect you basically transferred your beer (which is still mostly just sugar at this point) off of the yeast. The yeast had been working hard to incorporate oxygen to make themselves healthy for the long ferment ahead and you basically left them all behind to suffer with the old hops - and probably dumped them down the drain too .

Sooooooo... now, "50 hours into fermentation and repitching yeast 24 hours ago" you are not seeing any activity. Well, that's because you've restarted the yeast stages from the beginning. They, again, are incorporating what little oxygen is left to try to build their reserves for fermentation and trying to multiply. However, this time they are starting off on the wrong foot because there is not as much nutrient/oxygen for them to utilize.

You need to step back.... leave the lid on.... and let the yeast take a shot at fermenting the sugar because your efforts aren't working effectively . Seriously though, leave the bucket alone and don't open the lid. If in 4 more days (96 hours) nothing is happening then you can post back on what to do.

Don't worry about testing your gravity at this point. You will want to test your gravity in 7+ days to see where it has settled and to check for final gravity, but right now you need to keep it closed and not peek. The yeast know what to do

 

[jethro55]

A lot of first batches go this way.
Lesson 1. Leave it in the primary for at least two weeks, don't mess with it.

2. Don't worry about the trub. Much of it is residuals of steeping grains and the rest is yeast. Leaving the beer on the trub is fine for many weeks if not months. It is an outdated requirement due to modern day yeasts.

3. Leave it in the primary and don't mess with it for at least two weeks. It is worth repeating. There was no reason to pitch more yeast. But you did not hurt anything by doing so.

4. Get a hydrometer flask/column, and get a reading after two or even three weeks. No need to get one sooner. Be very sanitary with every thing that touches the beer. Even with the inside of your beer thief/siphon. Do not return the sample to the bucket. Even with the lid that you put back in place. Taste it, take notes and you will learn much from that taste over the course of various brews.

5. Always use extra care in sanitation. Secondary is a risk due to this. You do not need to take that risk, but many do with success.

6. Don't bottle until you are sure it is at final gravity. Usually this means a repeat reading three days apart. You did not learn this one the hard way. But lots of people do - it is a good recipe for bottle bombs.

Did you take a picture of those flakes on top of the beer? They might be patches of tiny bubbles. That's what this sounds like. And that is no problem.

 

[tampa911]

The recipe I used was from midwest, it is there "Autumn Amber Ale"

Our ingredients for this recipe include: 6 lb. Gold liquid malt extract, 2 oz. Special B, 8 oz. Crystal 80L, 2 oz. Roasted Barley specialty grains, 1 oz. Hallertau , 1 oz. Fuggle pellet hops, yeast, priming sugar, and a grain bag

I just took a sample in my new graduated cylinder and the beer is quite cloudy with a bunch of bubbles and even a little "head" at the top of the tube. It is reading 1.014.
It smells like beer and tastes like extremely watered down beer with a lot of yeast(?) flavor. It tingles my touge when I hold it in my mouth and I could not bring myself to take a swallow.

 

[flyte74]

The recipe I used was from midwest, it is there "Autumn Amber Ale"

Our ingredients for this recipe include: 6 lb. Gold liquid malt extract, 2 oz. Special B, 8 oz. Crystal 80L, 2 oz. Roasted Barley specialty grains, 1 oz. Hallertau , 1 oz. Fuggle pellet hops, yeast, priming sugar, and a grain bag

I just took a sample in my new graduated cylinder and the beer is quite cloudy with a bunch of bubbles and even a little "head" at the top of the tube. It is reading 1.014 at roughly 75 degrees.

It smells like beer and tastes like extremely watered down beer with a lot of yeast(?) flavor. It tingles my touge when I hold it in my mouth and I could not bring myself to take a swallow.

Great!!!
Now, please, for the love of all things sacred.....leave it alone!! :fro:

....for at least two weeks. Please? Pretty please with beer on top??

 

[WyomingBrewer]

The recipe I used was from midwest, it is there "Autumn Amber Ale"

Our ingredients for this recipe include: 6 lb. Gold liquid malt extract, 2 oz. Special B, 8 oz. Crystal 80L, 2 oz. Roasted Barley specialty grains, 1 oz. Hallertau , 1 oz. Fuggle pellet hops, yeast, priming sugar, and a grain bag

I just took a sample in my new graduated cylinder and the beer is quite cloudy with a bunch of bubbles and even a little "head" at the top of the tube. It is reading 1.014 at roughly 75 degrees.

It smells like beer and tastes like extremely watered down beer with a lot of yeast(?) flavor. It tingles my touge when I hold it in my mouth and I could not bring myself to take a swallow.

1.014 sounds about right for that....take it tomorrow and see if it changed. Look at the directions and somewhere on there it should tell you your gravity range for OG and FG.

 

[tampa911]

OK I found the Gravity spefications.

The recipee states:

SG: 1.042 - 1.046
FG: 1.010-1.012

So I guess there is a little time to go... Are the bubbles (carbonation?) in the sample normal / a good sign considering I drew the sample from the tap at the bottom of the bucket?

 

[WyomingBrewer]

No, not carbonation. Just bubbles from moving it and it means nothing. Now just leave it alone for a couple weeks and then bottle.

 

[scrapes]

Tampa, I recently made that beer, about 12 bottles left. I hit 1.010 FG. Its a drinkable beer. I learned a lot brewing it, enjoy.

 

[stavale8099]

You got a graduated cylinder! Good job ;-) easy now huh??

 

[tampa911]

No, not carbonation. Just bubbles from moving it and it means nothing. Now just leave it alone for a couple weeks and then bottle.

But I drew it from the botttom of the bucket why would there be air bubbles at the bottom?

 

[PhelanKA7]

But I drew it from the botttom of the bucket why would there be air bubbles at the bottom?

It's dissolved CO2. Open a bottle of soda and let it sit out until it looks flat. Now shake it up and I bet it will fizz again. That is dissolved CO2 and it exists throughout suspension whether you can see bubbles at any given moment or not

 

[tampa911]

I took another sample tonight and it is still very cloudy. I pulled out the waterlock and looked inside there is a tiny bit of foam floating around in small pockets, but no heavy layer of krausen on top. Still not seeing any activity in the waterlock.

I tested specific gracity of the sample and it was 1.012. The temperature of the sample was 68 degrees F.

The taste is still extremely mild and watery, with a tiny bit of a bubbly feel on the tounge. I was thinking about racking to a secondary in 2 or 3 days as the beer is still in the bottling bucket.

 

[tampa911]

OK I decided to rack to a secondary tonight against the advice of most everyone... I sanitized my secondary bucket, siphon and tubing and pulled the lid off my primary.

There is no real krausen to speak of, but there was a tiny bit of dried scum around the rim at the surface of the liquid. As I was gently transfering between buckets, I noticed a bit of bubbling in the primary showing that the yeast are active. There was about a 1/2 inch of cake at the bottom of the bucket that I didn't transfer. I took a bunch of pictures and will post them shortly.

I sealed up my secondary, and went to wash everything. By the time I came back down to the basement, the pressure in the secondary had pushed the liquid in my airlock all the way to one side. I am confident that there has been activity all along and the seal on my bottling bucket was not tight. Going forward I will be taking the advice of the forum, but for now I will have to relax, don't worry and have a store bought brew (unless someone wants to send me a homebrew).

Thanks everyone for your help and advice. I know this won't be the last "why are there no bubbles" post, but hopefully it will further reinforce for any new brewers. I must have read 30 of those posts, but I had to experience it for myself.

I am going to leave this batch alone for the next 2 weeks or so and will bottle when the hydrometer tells me to. Going forward, I am going to use a carboy for my primary, and rack to the bucket with a good seal, or just ferment in this bucket and leave it alone for 3 weeks and use the other bucket for bottling.

Thanks again.

 

[flyte74]

Good deal. I'm sure even with all the racking back and forth (I lost count of how many times it has been racked) your beer will be just fine. Let us know how it turns out for you.

Oh, another tip, if you ferment in a carboy I would recommend a blow off tube, especially if it is a 5g carboy. I generally don't ferment in carboys anymore but in the past when I have I usually found a blow off tube necessary. I even use one on my buckets.

 

[WyomingBrewer]

Do what makes you feel good about your process. I got rid of all my glass except the 6 gallon one that I do wine kits in. Buckets are cheaper, safer, easier to move and way easier to clean. I dont even rack on top of much anymore, just throw it in the primary when needed. Seems to work for me. The key is to get down a process that works for you and produces the results you want.

 

[scrapes]

I have to add when i brewed that beer. I transfered to secondary as well. Just for the experience, fermentation seemed to kick back in. I let it go for a week in secondary.

 

[tampa911]

Just an update. Bottled 2 weeks ago and the beer tasted good, but less flavor than I had hoped. It was still slightly cloudy when bottled, but after two weeks in bottles it is surprisingly clear. After 2 weeks there is a noticible yeast cake at the bottom of the bottles. I took one and turned it upside down/right side up a few times and the yeast seemed fairly content to stick to the bottom of the bottle.

I tossed another bottle in the fridge tonight, and I am going to leave it for the next 4 days. I will crack it open on Monday night and will post another update once I have my first "official" taste.

 

[tampa911]

So I have not posted in a while, but I have to report this beer ended up fairly decent. It is deffinitly "beer".

The flavor is not as strong as I would have liked, but way better than the first few samples, and to me there is a hint of a yeasty flavor even when carefully poured. It may just be subliminal knowing everything that went into making the beer. I handed out a few samples this week so I will wait to see if I get any usable feedback from impartial parties.

Either way now I can RDWAHAHB.