Something is wrong with my process, brewed an IPA recipe twice both are very weird.

[wadeo]

Hello Fellow homebrewers,

I have been trying a BYO recipe for Racer 5 Clone and for some reason it is not turning out. This is my 9th & 10th beer that I have brewed and all have turned out with exception to this one. The funny thing is the first attempt was made with Extracts and Steeping grains. The second was my first all grain brewing experience. Both ended up with pretty much the same foul tasting beer.

From the visual inspection I see on my brews is that they both have like a light green hue/tint to them when you pore them (down the drain). During the boil and they both had problems with wort/trub separation. I have been using IM during the last 10 min of the boil. At flame out I start my imersion chilller and begin the process of chilling the wort. Once till I get around 70 I remove the chiller and let the wort set for 30 min without touching it.

My last batch was the all grain and is very bitter and not sweet and tasted bad. This was from the tested sample that was taken after moving to a secondary just before dry hopping (day 10).

Both of these beers taste pretty much the same thus far in to it. They have no body, are bitter and no real dry hopped character in the one that was bottled and has been sitting in my basement now for like 1 1/2 months.

I'm wondering what gives, I have two beers that I brewed and pretty much they are not drinkable due to something wrong with my process or equipment.

In both beers fermentation went from 1.071 to 1.019 over 8 days. Starting at 67 and ramping up one degree per day until we reach 72 toward the end of fermentation.

It almost seems that there is small green hop matter that is stuck in solution causing this green tint and foul taste.

Any suggestions on where I can start to look for answers would be a big help and should I dry hop the new one and see how it turns out.?

 

[KJohnson]

How was your yeast? Did you make a starter?

 

[Wiezer]

It sounds like one common factor between both batches is your water. What are you using? Tap? Spring? Distilled?

 

[wadeo]

How was your yeast? Did you make a starter?

New Yeast and starter with both 1250ml, California V whitelabs yeast.

I do not think the yeast is the problem, because on the first batch of this beer I reused the yeast from a Extra Pale Ale that came out wonderful.

On this second attempt it was a new yeast starter from a new vial of yeast.

But both versions of this recipe taste the same after boil and after fermentation.

 

[wadeo]

It sounds like one common factor between both batches is your water. What are you using? Tap? Spring? Distilled?

As the water goes on the first batch I used distilled, I normally use distilled water in my extract beers.

The second I used carbon filtered tap water for my all grain batch.

 

[Hang Glider]

please post the recipe and steps taken...

 

[wadeo]

please post the recipe and steps taken...

For the All Grain Recipe I have the following....
Mash--
(The Malts are off a little bit here due to my new calculations in Beer Smith this is scaled up to a 9.15 gallon for boil off and loss of wort in the bottom of my kettle.)
12.38 lb Pale Malt
1.83 lb Wheat Malt
0.69 lb Crystal 15L
0.23 lb Carapils 20L
2 Table spoons of five star 5.2 (should only have been one...oops)
water to grist was 1lb to 1.25 gallons

Boil--
90min .057oz Chinook
90min .046lb Corn Sugar
60min 1.93oz Cascade

Aerate
1 LPM for 60seconds

I mashed at a little low on this one like 145 let sit for 1hr.
Vorlauf 3 gallons of wort then drained all into Kettle got a 1.050 first wort runnings. I filled it back up till the grains were covered waited 20 min then drained it once more. I did this until I reached my target of 8.25 gallons in the kettle.

Boiled and added additions at required times, my boil ran a little longer that I expected to bring up the gravity so I could hit my 1.071 target.

15 min till flame out I added in my IC and 2 table spoons of Irish Moss.
Chilled the wort till about 70 (small amount of whirl-pooling stirring, I need to refrain from touching the wort as it cools) removed my IC and stirred the kettle to create a whirlpool. Then let the wort sit for at least 30 min. Tasted it and it was kinda sweet but not all that much mostly not all pleasing to taste. (Most of the beers that I have created at this point in time they tasted a little like the finished beer would not this one)

Drained off the wort into my carboy the first like half gallon of wort was a lot of hop matter but after that it ran clean of hops until the end where it got a little more of the hop matter in the carboy. After it was in my carboy I noticed that there was a lot of break material in my carboy so I let it sit over night until the majority of that stuff fell to the bottom. The stuff in the carboy was not all hop matter it was mostly like white or grain like in color my guess is break material .
It was about 2+ inches of it in a 5 gallon glass carboy. I waited to pitch the yeast and let the wort sit for 4 hours then transferred into my 6.5 primary fermenter and pitched my yeast. I noticed upon transferring the beer at this point in time it had a slight tint of green to it as it does now and like it was when it came out of the kettle. Total volume of fermentable wort was 3.7 gallons.

Fermentation temp was set at 67 and once we hit the temp I pitched my yeast.
Normal fermentation profile for IPA’s 67-72 increasing 1 degree per day after fermentation starts until you reach your target temp. I then let it sit until you have no activity for 3 days.

Transferred to a secondary where I will be dry hopping. Normally I would not do a move to secondary but I wanted to move the beer to a cleaner environment away from the remaining trub and to a smaller fermenter with less headspace. Well to my surprise the only thing in the bottom of the primary was the yeast cake.

DryHop-- (5 Day -- on this step now --)
.02 oz Cascade
.33 oz Centennial
.33 oz Amarillo
.02 oz Tomahawk

What I think happened the more and more I think about it is the boil was a little longer than I wanted it to be I think I went about 45 min over because of the desired gravity I wanted to hit was 1.071. This resulted in a longer boil and less beer at the end of the boil and some how infused the hop matter into the beer color along with a weird harsh taste. The green tint is light and can only be seen when you tilt your glass when looking through it or when pouring. The longer boil I can blame on my first all grain brew on a new system. I did not know of my full volume boil loss would be in my 20gal kettle. I do know this loss and have added the .75 gallon per hour loss to beer smith to calculate my future brew recipes.

Could the extra long boil in 2.5oz of hops be to blame?

Has anyone brewed Racer 5 Clone beer before that has some tips on single infusion mash and hop control in your kettle?

Thanks any and all responses.

 

[mfraier]

How warm is your basement? A month in a half is a fair amount of time but are you conditioning at 70*?

 

[johngie]

Do you always use 2 table spoons of Irish Moss?
Most I've ever used on a 5g batch was 1/2 tablespoon.

 

[Clonefarmer]

Part of the problem may be having a 90 min addition plus a 60 min addition, then going 45 min over = 135 and 105 min additions. You'll get all bitterness, but not allot of hop flavor.

 

[Clonefarmer]

Boil--
90min .057oz Chinook
60min 1.93oz Cascade

IMO Racer 5 is much too hoppy to be just bitterness additions. I would suggest using Chinook at 60 min and the cascade spread out at 30, 15, 5, or 0 min additions. The amounts would have to be adjusted according to AA%.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I think part of your problem is your boil off calculation. It can't be all of the problem if you have the same problem with extract.

If you are overboiling bittering additions there is probably a point where you are breaking down the hop material (and irish moss) to the point that the particles are too small to drop out of suspension without finings, cold crashing or long term aging.

Additionally, without any flavoring additions you're just going to get bitterness and no hop flavor. Sounds like a recipe for a terrible beer...

 

[r8rphan]

If this helps any, here is the recipe from BYO magazine's special 250 clones edition...

OG= 1.071
FG= 1.015
IBU= 60 SRM= 10
ABV= 7.2%

11.25 lbs 2 row pale malt
1.66 lbs wheat malt
0.625 lbs crystal 15L
0.42 lbs dextrose (corn sugar)
0.21 lbs Carapils Malt

6.1 AAU chinook @90 mins
8.7 AAU Cascade @ 60 mins
0.3 oz Centennial (dry hop)
0.3 oz Amarillo (dry hop)
0.2 oz Tomahawk (dry hop)

Wyeast 1272 or WLP051
(0.75 cups priming sugar if bottling)

Mash in @ 145 then ramp temp up to 152 for conversion.. Mash out @ 170. Boil for 90 mins, adding hops per schedule.. Ferment at 68...

For extract, replace pale malt with 6 lbs DME and 0.33 lbs 2 row malt.. Steep crushed grains in 1G of water @ 152 for 45 mins...

Clone recipe per Richard Norgrove of Bear Republic Brewing...

P S.. this edition of BYO is a must have....

 

[terrapinj]

is it possible that its supposed to be a continuously hopped beer?

maybe the additions at 90 and 60 are supposed to be spread out over the course of the boil?

 

[wadeo]

How warm is your basement? A month in a half is a fair amount of time but are you conditioning at 70*?

I have conditioned the beer at or around 70 for about three weeks or until my wife gets tire of looking at two cases of beer sitting in livingroom because it is the warmest room in our house. I do not think the bottle conditioning is the blame I feel it is something wrong in the boil.

Do you always use 2 table spoons of Irish Moss?
Most I've ever used on a 5g batch was 1/2 tablespoon.

I will cut back on my next batch actually I moved over to whirlflock tablet, I'm brewing tomorrow and plan to use one half tab 15 min to flame out.

Part of the problem may be having a 90 min addition plus a 60 min addition, then going 45 min over = 135 and 105 min additions. You'll get all bitterness, but not allot of hop flavor.

I think your on to something here, that does make since very little hop flavor all bitterness. That describes this last batch to a T... I will tighten my boil times in my next attempt at this beer.

 

[oldschool]

The literally "green" beer is a concern. I'm not sure what could cause this since I have not seen it but are you absolutely sure it's not a wild yeast or bacteria infection? What do the bubbles look like? How are you carbonating?

 

[wadeo]

IMO Racer 5 is much too hoppy to be just bitterness additions. I would suggest using Chinook at 60 min and the cascade spread out at 30, 15, 5, or 0 min additions. The amounts would have to be adjusted according to AA%.

Just following the recipe from BYO 250 clone recipes but will take this into consideration next time.

I think part of your problem is your boil off calculation. It can't be all of the problem if you have the same problem with extract.

If you are overboiling bittering additions there is probably a point where you are breaking down the hop material (and irish moss) to the point that the particles are too small to drop out of suspension without finings, cold crashing or long term aging.

Additionally, without any flavoring additions you're just going to get bitterness and no hop flavor. Sounds like a recipe for a terrible beer...

This sounds about right the over boil kinda killed the hops and they are super small at this point just stuck in suspension. This is most likely the cause of the slight green tint that I'm seeing and bitter taste.

If this helps any, here is the recipe from BYO magazine's special 250 clones edition...

OG= 1.071
FG= 1.015
IBU= 60 SRM= 10
ABV= 7.2%

11.25 lbs 2 row pale malt
1.66 lbs wheat malt
0.625 lbs crystal 15L
0.42 lbs dextrose (corn sugar)
0.21 lbs Carapils Malt

6.1 AAU chinook @90 mins
8.7 AAU Cascade @ 60 mins
0.3 oz Centennial (dry hop)
0.3 oz Amarillo (dry hop)
0.2 oz Tomahawk (dry hop)

Wyeast 1272 or WLP051
(0.75 cups priming sugar if bottling)

Mash in @ 145 then ramp temp up to 152 for conversion.. Mash out @ 170. Boil for 90 mins, adding hops per schedule.. Ferment at 68...

For extract, replace pale malt with 6 lbs DME and 0.33 lbs 2 row malt.. Steep crushed grains in 1G of water @ 152 for 45 mins...

Clone recipe per Richard Norgrove of Bear Republic Brewing...

P S.. this edition of BYO is a must have....

This is the recipe that I'm using (I have this mag), I plugged those values into beerSmith and according to my equipment profile and scaled recipe up to 6.5 gallons.

is it possible that its supposed to be a continuously hopped beer?

maybe the additions at 90 and 60 are supposed to be spread out over the course of the boil?

Not according to the recipe in BYO.... but it would make more since I will take that into consideration on my next attempt.


-----

I would like to thank everyone for stepping up to help a fellow brewer out. Tomorrow I will be brewing a Robust Porter from the Brewing Classic Styles book and will take consideration in for all the suggestions for the boil length and irish moss. Tomorrow will be my second All Grain brew day so wish me luck and if you have any other suggestions on my problem with my racer 5 please let me know.

 

[wadeo]

The literally "green" beer is a concern. I'm not sure what could cause this since I have not seen it but are you absolutely sure it's not a wild yeast or bacteria infection? What do the bubbles look like? How are you carbonating?

The color is very slight, the first go round was bottled conditioned and the second version is still in the secondary dry hopping. The flavor and color were both the same coming out of the primary fermentation. I think something happening in the LONG boil that caused the everything to get all messed up.

The bubbles look normal but it seems a bit over carbonated, it has no real hoppy flavor just all bitterness. I really do not get much aroma from the dry hop additions either.

 

[wadeo]

I just wanted to post a follow up to my brewing process issue.

The beer turned out actually pretty good, patience is what I was lacking and one thing is for sure you can not rush the brewing process. I guess I needed to wait a little while it has been about a month now and it tastes pretty good. It my not be a clone just yet but pretty close.

I would like to thank everyone who took the time to help a fellow homebrewer out.

Part of my problem was I received so many new brewing toys and trying to incorporate new stuff into my brewing process. I also brewed this batch very late in the night I'm talking starting my boil at 11pm. That was a mistake, I will make a personal note to self not to brew in the wee hours of the night.

Thanks again,
_Wade

 

[unionrdr]

One other little point of concern(?)...why did you get it down to 70F (pitch temp),then let it sit for 1/2 hour? Another time you let it sit longer? I'd have to read all of it again to find how long. But,was the kettle uncovered? It could've gotten infected enough to cause the off flavors with the excess bittering hops. Something to think about while streamlining your process.

 

[Clonefarmer]

I'm glad to see the beer turned out well. I've made the mistake of starting late, too. Now I try and start at 11:00 am .

 

[wadeo]

One other little point of concern(?)...why did you get it down to 70F (pitch temp),then let it sit for 1/2 hour? Another time you let it sit longer? I'd have to read all of it again to find how long. But,was the kettle uncovered? It could've gotten infected enough to cause the off flavors with the excess bittering hops. Something to think about while streamlining your process.

Basically the 30 min you speak of was a covered whirlpool rest, no infection it just needed to age a little longer.

 

[unionrdr]

Basically the 30 min you speak of was a covered whirlpool rest, no infection it just needed to age a little longer.

Whirlpooling to centralize the settlings? I've read others doing that instead of straining/bagging. Could that part be cut out to lessen the chance of infections? I save all the aging,etc stuff for primary on. With that & good temps,it comes out cleaner. Just a few more thoughts...