Soldering Stainless steel

[slakwhere]

While its being discussed, quick question on coupler for the element. Has any had an issue or successfully used the coupling since one is nps and the other is npt?

they say the solution is LOTS of teflon tape + the gasket that comes with the element.

 

[wyzazz]

they say the solution is LOTS of teflon tape + the gasket that comes with the element.

Or find someone with a 1" NPT tap and just run it all the way through the coupler's threads.

 

[milldoggy]

No problem with a silicon oring and a 1" half coupler. Did not even use that much tape. I would suggest getting a socket for the element so you can torque it on there. They are like 10 bucks on ebay.

Btw, not sure if you saw my other post or not, but a half coupler from bargin is od is 1.5"s

 

[slakwhere]

thx milldoggy. i saw your post and then dug into mcmaster and found theirs measured at 1.6"... a coupling for my tool will be another 10 from mcmaster to get a proper tool to pull through. then i'd need another, wider coupler on the outside.

http://www.mcmaster.com/library/20110613/45605K725L.GIF

so a new tapered coupler for the inside, a new coupler on the outside to pull into and a larger washer to put on the large end of the coupler and i should be good to go...

 

[slakwhere]

just realized there's a grainger office near me so i ordered a half coupling and a new pullthrough tool from them. will be here next week

coupling for electrical element: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SHARON-PIPING-Half-Coupling-2UA77

reducer coupling to make dimple: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SHARON-PIPING-Concentric-Reducer-1RTW7

i won't pull that reducer coupling all the way through because it's large end OD is much larger than what i need, just go a little at a time and check fitment then pull the half coupler through for a press fit.

once the parts get here i can get a measurement and find the appropriate hole saw to make the hole and test this out!

 

[orangehero]

I'm using 1.5" Tri-Clover to make it easy to remove the element for cleaning the element and pot. I had swagman weld a 1" NPS locknut to a 1.5" TC ferrule and I soldered another 1.5" ferrule to the pot.

 

[slakwhere]

orange: did you use a dimple tool to do the solder? what size hole did you punch?

 

[gmartin]

Great thread -
1) soldered my first 1/2" coupling to a keg the other day. Looks like hell, whole was to big. But it's watertight! I have a slightly larger coupling from another source, so I'll redo it and pull it thru for a tighter fit.

2) harris stay-bright paste flux was all I could find locally. works sort of - a mess to clean up. I've got liquid on order. My initial problem was too much heat...

3) got the keg-tool parts from McMaster Carr and remaining bits at Lowes and Menards. Why was the 5/8 bolt used in the first place? And how was the reducer reamed out? Like a previous poster, I found a 9/16 bolt which fits fine, and will use it for now.

4) re 1" NPS - stout tanks and kettles has a 1 1/2" triclamp fitting with the 1" NPS for $15. I'm using one for my rims heater. I see orangehero is using a 1 1/2" triclover ferrule to mount his element to the pot. Think I'll do that too.

5) I had issues with a heater element fitting a 1" NPT as well. I suspect the threads are cast rather than machined (nasty/cheap). This might be a consistent problem with some element manufacturers, and a consistent no-problem with others. Unfortunately, dunno who made my 250/55 lo heat element. Has anyone tried an NPT die on the element or NPS tap on the coupling?

6) Nostalgia, GreenMonti, I really appreciate the work on the keg-tool and the posting of the parts source and parts numbers. And slakwhere is looking into one for mounting a 1" coupling. I think the thread has brought out some techniques which give consistently good results.

My best to alll.....

 

[Homercidal]

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!

I got 2 1/2 couplers and a 1" couplers from the supply store downtown, and put one of the 1/2 inchers on the lathe at work and turned it into a forming tool. They didn't have half couplers, so I cut the other 1/2" coupler in half and cleaned the cut ends up.

Last night I got a 5/16" bolt and a couple of washers and nuts, and drilled a 5/16" hole in a piece of practice SS and used my impact hammer to draw a hole out.

IT WORKED BEAUTIFULLY! I used a little grease to keep all the parts happy and turned the air down so that it slowly pulled through.

I can't wait to grab some flux and try flowing the solder.

 

[gmartin]

In answer to my own question about the 9/16 vs the 5/8 bolt size for the 1/2 inch keg tool, I note the 9/16 bolt I got is only threaded about 1 1/2 inches at the end, meaning to draw the reducing coupling thru the hole and form the dimple, I'll have to change spacers of some kind. McMasterCarr does not have fully threaded 9/16 bolts but does have fully threaded 5/8 bolts. I suspect that's why nostalgia went with the 5/8 size.

Homercidal - nice you have access to a lathe. That would make this easier than trying to find fittings to repurpose.

I see a need for kegtools for 1/4" couplings and 1 1/2" triclover ferrules, as well as the 1/2" couplings and 1" couplings already addressed.


Maybe one of our fittings suppliers would consider putting together a few parts kits for resale, machining those parts not readily available? I know it's been suggested that someone stock the staybright soldering kits. - My stayclean liquid flux is still backordered from Airgas here in Lansing.



Whatever.....

 

[slakwhere]

gmartin, i believe for the 1/4" couplings there was something made out of brass that worked well in this thread. for 1 1/2" triclover you basically just need to get the OD of the "welding" end of the triclover and then find a butt-weld reducer at mcmaster/grainger/wherever that has a smaller OD on one end and a larger OD on the other end. you may not be able to find a tool that you can pull all the way through (may be too big on the big end), but if you give it a couple turns at a time and check it you should end up with a perfect fit.

 

[blackdragon82]

I have been trying to solder a 1/2in nut onto my kettle for a while now and I'm about ready to give up. Each time I try the solder pops off like it didn't even tough the kettle.
I'm using lead free plumbers solder, flux paste that came with the solder
Here is the link to what I got

I sand the kettle down nicely, applied the flux, heated the kettle and nut, then start pressing the solder to my connection with the flame off to the side not directly to the location the solder is in. Waited till it was cool enough to the touch and it pops right off. I have only soldered electrical wires before and that was twice at most. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[P-J]

The solder "might" work with Stainless Steel but the flux will not and that is the base of your problem.
You need to get Harris Stay-Clean Liquid flux.

 

[blackdragon82]

Ok I just searched around and the only place that carries it is a local welding shop that closes at 5pm. Sending the GF to get it while she is home haha

 

[slakwhere]

Concentric Reducer 1.5" x 1" - Grainger #1rt27
1" half coupling - Grainger #2ua77

the coupling only threads into my heating element about half a turn. hoping that i can get enough teflon tape on it to seal or shim the seal with the utility box.

the small end of the concentric reducer is smaller than the coupling, and the large end is bigger than the coupling... so i will have no problem getting it started but will need to be careful as to not go too far into the reducer and make the hole too big.

just need to find a drill bit slightly smaller than the coupler and i should be ready to test this out

 

[lschiavo]

I have been trying to solder a 1/2in nut onto my kettle for a while now and I'm about ready to give up. Each time I try the solder pops off like it didn't even tough the kettle.
I'm using lead free plumbers solder, flux paste that came with the solder
Here is the link to what I got

I sand the kettle down nicely, applied the flux, heated the kettle and nut, then start pressing the solder to my connection with the flame off to the side not directly to the location the solder is in. Waited till it was cool enough to the touch and it pops right off. I have only soldered electrical wires before and that was twice at most. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

As mentioned the flux is key. Overheating will burn off the flux and cause problems. I found slowly applying heat to all the parts just until the solder starts to melt and flow works best. Also, making a ring of solder as shown earlier in the thread makes for a very nice looking joint. I clean everything up, set the fitting, place the ring of solder, douse it with flux and then heat slowly...works everytime. Good luck.

 

[slakwhere]

the parts i ordered from grainger made a fantastic dimple for a 1" coupling!

Drilled a 1.5" hole with a hole saw on the drillpress

Assembled the tool

pulled the tapered coupling partially through the keg lid, stopping every few turns to check the dimple

view of my 1" coupling dimple from the inside

view of my 1" coupling dimple from the outside

i didn't use a big enough spacer on the outside (white pvc in the pics) so i couldn't get the dimple quite big enough. will head to home depot and get some deeper, wider ID PVC and finish the dimple and pull the coupler through. i won't solder it into place here but instead drill a new hole in the keg and mount it properly in my HLT!

 

[klyph]

Let us know how it goes, you may find getting an even dimple on the rounded side of the keg shell to be a challenge.

 

[slakwhere]

klyph, the lid has a complex shape to it so it should't be too much of a problem maybe i'll try today

 

[gmartin]

Bobby M. early in the thread said he was using a 150 watt soldering iron. People scoffed at this, and I think the overall sense was he was "kidding." And he never really fully responded.

I'm having trouble controlling the heat from my torch, and tried a 100 watt iron I inherited from my Grandfathe - it's probably eighty years old, with a Montgomery Wards tag for $1.79 still attached. Anyway, I find it works really well for tinning both keg and the hardware, much more manageable than the torch. Also was able to solder a locknut to a keg. The pyramid shaped tip can simultaneously heat the surfaces of the keg and the fitting, and flows solder onto both surfaces. While this looks watertight, I don't think the keg and nut get hot enough for solder to actually flow much between the flat surface of the nut and the keg, so maybe not the best joint possible. I think a bigger iron would be better; also, may try torching to reflow the solder.

 

[wyzazz]

Bobby M. early in the thread said he was using a 150 watt soldering iron. People scoffed at this, and I think the overall sense was he was "kidding." And he never really fully responded.

I'm having trouble controlling the heat from my torch, and tried a 100 watt iron I inherited from my Grandfathe - it's probably eighty years old, with a Montgomery Wards tag for $1.79 still attached. Anyway, I find it works really well for tinning both keg and the hardware, much more manageable than the torch. Also was able to solder a locknut to a keg. The pyramid shaped tip can simultaneously heat the surfaces of the keg and the fitting, and flows solder onto both surfaces. While this looks watertight, I don't think the keg and nut get hot enough for solder to actually flow much between the flat surface of the nut and the keg, so maybe not the best joint possible. I think a bigger iron would be better; also, may try torching to reflow the solder.

I believe that was Swagman...

If you don't mind like to stick my two cents in.

I have used silver solder for several years, some for fittings on stainless steel gas tanks, and a few custom fittings for brewers. There are several good brands myself I like sta-brite solder and acid.

For a tool I have found that a large very large Iron the one I have a present is 150 watt. I found better control and less of change of overheating like with a torch.

Just my two cents

Swagman

 

[gmartin]

wyzazz, Obviously you're right.

Torched the locknut to reflow the solder, and the nut settled down on the keg; a little more solder, and a better joint. But I at least don't have the technique down to do it with the torch alone.

BTW, I also have a 200/300 watt soldering gun ( for soldering coax connectors ) that seems easier to use than the torch for tinning and tacking.


Also, may have a useful tip: I know you guys are much better at this and never make a hole or dimple a little too large for your fitting..... I gave my keg tool a few turns too many and oversized the hole for a 1/4" coupling. At the bottom of the keg, so I had to support it from inside while soldering on the outside. To make a long story short, I used a telescoping magnetic pickup tool to support the coupling from inside. I took a short bolt and a washer and put these at the inside of the coupler, ran it through the hole from the inside, and used the pickup tool to support them: magnet sticks to bolt, tool telescopes to support from side of keg, and rubberhandle holds it in place by friction.

 

[blackdragon82]

Just wanted to update and say thanks to PJ and lschiavo for the responses!! You guys were right flux was the key. Last night I sanded down the area cleaned it and applied harris stay-clean. After I finished I could tell it was adhearing better than before. This morning I picked it up from the soldered location and man that thing was holding tight. Still it isn't really that pretty but it holds

 

[Bobby_M]

If you make the hole too big, you should be able to bend the flare back towards center the smallest bit with pliers or by tapping with a hammer. Just enough to grip the coupling.

 

[GreenMonti]

If you make the hole too big, you should be able to bend the flare back towards center the smallest bit with pliers or by tapping with a hammer. Just enough to grip the coupling.

Bobby is right here. I have made the hole a bit to large before and a quick tap on the opening in the opposite direction, makes the hole small and you can re-pull the fitting or the tool. However you are doing the work.

Having said that.....I'm sure there is a point where you might just want to go a size larger on your fitting.LOL. It depends on how many home brews you've had.

 

[slakwhere]

ok i finally got around to getting this larger half coupling installed. i used a 3" spacer on the outside instead of the smaller white pvc i was using, and it was a piece of cake!

1" half coupling pulled through keg lid

frontside of test fit

installed in HLT (just water leak testing, no electrical hookups so no cover or ground)

hope this can inspire you to put an electric heating element on your vessel! thanks to all the posters in this thread for your inspiration to try this for my gear!

 

[nostalgia]

I soldered a 1" NPT nut onto the side of my brew kettle this week. I had some trouble and re-learned a few things I had forgotten.

First, solder makes a difference. I was using 1/8" 4% silver-bearing plumbing solder from Home Depot. It leaked every time - I completely re-did the joint 3 separate times and tried re-fluxing and flowing the joint countless times. I don't know if the 1/8" wire required me to add too much heat (see next point) or if it was just crap solder, but I sucked it up and bought a pound of 1/16" Harris Stay-Brite 8 solder, and make a perfect watertight joint on the first try.

Second, if you think you're applying too much heat, you've already applied too much heat. Gently heat until the solder flows, then walk away. More heat than that will just burn the flux and ruin the joint. Don't touch the fitting until it has air-cooled.

Third, fittings of this size take longer than you think to cool to the point that the solder is hard. Be patient and don't touch it. DAMHIKT.

Fourth, CA applicators like these make fabulous precision liquid flux applicators.

-Joe

 

[daufdi]

Has it been verified that this is food safe?
I saw that it is lead free on the Harris website.

 

[Flomaster]

Has it been verified that this is food safe?
I saw that it is lead free on the Harris website.

it's silver solder Not leaded solder. Once the flux Has been washed off there is nothing to worry about.

-= Jason =-

 

[peterlonz]

Very interesting:
1) The "second attempt" is very impressive.
2) When I was associated many years ago now with the commercial soldering of T304 stainless (about the most common type), the flux used was Hydrochloric acid ("spirits of salts") plumbers solder was used & a thorough wash was required afterwards. I can't recall the dilution rate used on the acid flux. Gas heated large solid copper irons were used.
3) I was unaware that "silver solder" (it's pretty expensive) could be applied to stainless successfully, I thought higher temperatures were needed such as available by propane torch.
4) Without doubt silver solder is superior but the execution need only match the application so if it works..............
5) Surprised to read how tough the soldered joint actually is.
Well done for posting a clear factual & very useful "how to".