So...You Want to Breed Your Own Hops.

[PapaBearJay]

Thanks Jay, I was planning on germinating warm (70-72f) before moving them to a frost protected cold frame, then planting after last frost. Hopefully I'll be updating with some pics in the coming months. Cheers.

I would be more concerned about doing it that way, as we waited to acclimate until it was summer. I would grow them inside (if you can) for a couple months in the sunniest spot you have. Give them a kebob stake to climb if needed, then wait to acclimate after ANY danger of frost.

 

[DarkCoder]

Does anyone have any Neo1 or Amalia up for trade or donation?

If you don't find any traders... they still have Amalia rhizomes there: http://www.homebrewing.org/Hop-Rhizomes-Available-for-Order_c_233.html


Hurry up ! They had Neo1 last week, but not available anymore.


(Found Neo1 and Amalia there... http://www.americanbrewmaster.com/Hop-Rhizomes)

 

[B-Hoppy]

A brief clip on what the industry considers pretty much as 'standard' for bringing a new variety to market:

 

[PapaBearJay]

Thanks B-Hoppy. This highlights really well the points I made earlier about the general schedule of breeding programs.

 

[B-Hoppy]

P.S. I like the larger, bold font. It's easier for me to read.

Cheers

I do too, but my computer has this little button up at the top that I can click on and it makes the print bigger so you can pretty much make it as big as you want. It's simply excellent~

All this technology makes hop breeding a snap!! (just to stay on topic)

ps: sorry day tripper, but once I found the color button, well . . . it was a game changer, like when I got my touch-tone phone a few years ago. But it's all in the name of hop breeding, so I hope you'll accept my apology.

 

[PapaBearJay]

I do too, but my computer has this little button up at the top that I can click on and it makes the print bigger so you can pretty much make it as big as you want. It's simply excellent~



All this technology makes hop breeding a snap!! (just to stay on topic)



ps: sorry day tripper, but once I found the color button, well . . . it was a game changer, like when I got my touch-tone phone a few years ago. But it's all in the name of hop breeding, so I hope you'll accept my apology.

I like that you're persistent, and you've got a cheeky attitude. But you likely knew that already, so maybe just maybe, what you need is someone to say "Hey man, stop trying to hijack my thread."

You don't like my thread, cool, but you're acting like the third wheel hanging out in the back seat.


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[PapaBearJay]

Thanks Jay, I was planning on germinating warm (70-72f) before moving them to a frost protected cold frame, then planting after last frost. Hopefully I'll be updating with some pics in the coming months. Cheers.

So I did a second viability test to confirm the initial findings, which wasn't what I had hoped for. Which is <4% viability...so I've ordered some more seed lots from other vendors, and depending on the quantity that arrives, I'll continue the experiments in the same fashion. I only have a couple months before I need to begin some field work, so I'd really like to have germinated seedlings by then.

 

[B-Hoppy]

Sorry about that.

 

[PapaBearJay]

Sorry about that.

RDWHAHB.

 

[PapaBearJay]

So let's start with some terminology. I think this sometimes can trip people up.


European hops (Humulus lupulus var. lupulus) are dioecious, herbaceous, rhizomatous, climbing, perennials.

Dioecious - This is greek for "two houses". Quite literally, male and female flowers are on separate plants, generally resulting unisexual plants.

Herbaceous - The plants do not form any (living) above ground woody tissues, this resulting growth dies every year. Yes, I understand the crown gets woody, but I am making a distinct difference between the crown and the bines.

Rhizomatous - The plant forms rhizomes (duh!), but let's make the distinction right now, rhizomes ARE NOT roots! Rhizomes are a modified underground stem. A stem, analogous to the green stem growing above ground. A rhizome must FORM both new roots and new shoots (from buds). A root must form new shoots, as it already has roots and contains the ability to uptake water. People, if this doesn't make sense, just ask.

Perennial - To most of us this should be an obvious one. The plant is long-lived, surviving multiple years depending on the overall health. Reports of 50-70 years have recorded.

There are five genetically distinct subvarieties of H. lupulus. They include: var. lupulus, var. neomexicanus, var. lupuloides, var. cordifolius, var. pubescens. These are based on their different morphological characteristics.

There are three species contained within the Humulus genus. The include H. lupulus (as listed above.), H. japonicus synonymous with H. scandens (the annual Japanese hop), and H. yunnanensis (the perennial Chinese hop).

 

[brewerelated]

How long should you stratify the seeds for? I have read through a lot of the hop growing forums as well as websites all around the internet. I have seen someone state that germination rates are best at 3 months cold stratification, but I have also seen someone post that 1 week gives the best germination rate. What do you guys think?

 

[PapaBearJay]

There are three things that matter primarily when stratifying seed.

Moisture, temperature, and time.

The seeds need to have moisture, the seed coat must weaken, which is accomplished by the seed imbibing water and leaching out chemicals present in the seed coat that will prevent germination.

Temperature will influence the uptake of water as well as how long the seed must be stratified for. Optimal stratification temperatures are NOT below freezing. Stratification is optimal at 42-46 degrees fahrenheit (3-5 degrees celsius). Why? Water is most dense at this temperature point.

Stratification will occur at slightly lower or higher temperatures than the above optimal ones, but it will take much longer and result in uneven germination. If it is freezing or below, guess what? The seed has water in it (albeit, a minute amount) and thus, the seeds will be frozen!!

Time, for MOST temperate plant species, is influenced by other factors. Generally speaking though 6-8 weeks of temperatures near 44 degrees F, in a moist (not saturated or soggy, but not dry!) soil/potting mix will result in the greatest germination.

All of this is dependent on other things that could be inhibiting germination, dormancy-promoting chemicals, hard seed coats (basswood seeds for instance, it generally takes two seasons to germinate because it requires removal of the hard seed coat and it must be stratified. The fluctuating temperatures across seasons breaks the seed coat, allowing the seed to imbibe water and germinate).

But really, what it comes down to is finding what works best for you. If you find a method that guarantees you some success, keep with it!

 

[DarkCoder]

Stratification will occur at slightly lower or higher temperatures than the above optimal ones, but it will take much longer and result in uneven germination. If it is freezing or below, guess what? The seed has water in it (albeit, a minute amount) and thus, the seeds will be frozen!!

Just to say that I had so many seeds on hand that on my last try, I have put a small lot of seeds in the freezer for 1 week (...prior to the freezer, they had a 2 days of water intake). Guess what ? A bunch of them have sprout after putting them at room temperature.

My thinking behind that test was: wild hops strains mostly grow in cold climate where there is a Winter and temperature below the freezing point. During Falls, seeds fall on the ground and they receive cold rain, retain that water and they freeze during the winter. Then they sprout during Spring.

I was afraid that freezing temperature might kill the seeds because of the water intake, but I was able to get seedling out of those seeds.

But the fridge is enough to trick the seeds that they went through Winter. :rockin:

 

[PapaBearJay]

Just to say that I had so many seeds on hand that on my last try, I have put a small lot of seeds in the freezer for 1 week (...prior to the freezer, they had a 2 days of water intake). Guess what ? A bunch of them have sprout after putting them at room temperature.



My thinking behind that test was: wild hops strains mostly grow in cold climate where there is a Winter and temperature below the freezing point. During Falls, seeds fall on the ground and they receive cold rain, retain that water and they freeze during the winter. Then they sprout during Spring.



I was afraid that freezing temperature might kill the seeds because of the water intake, but I was able to get seedling out of those seeds.



But the fridge is enough to trick the seeds that they went through Winter. :rockin:

I'm glad this worked for you and that it was successful.

I'll say this, in general, seeds that are formed later in the season, which are generally a result of short day plants mature and fall to the ground in fall. There is generally moisture present and the temperature is falling readily. Then winter comes and winter leaves, followed by spring. Which for some of us can be full of rain and dry for others, but the temperature is rising. Those periods of temperature above freezing are actually the stratification process.

Plants are amazing, the seeds have "remembered" the length of time for which they've been exposed to these conditions.

Part of it will also depend on the temperature in your freezer, as the amount of starch present in the seeds (think of the starch as the food reserves for that seed to survive until it germinates), will actually decrease the freezing point, (this is a result of solution chemistry, analogous to placing salt on the sidewalk). So stratification will still occur, but again the main factors here being temperature and time.


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[DerrangedPOJO]

Yesterday i found a hop bush(calling it that because it has been there for many many years and no pruning ever). I assume it was planted there on purpose. So i thought to myself i could use another hop or two. So i collected two rhizomes. My question.... is there a way to find out what species it is? I have several different hop varieties currently and do not really have room for something i already have. Well so swmbo says.


Also is graphing an option with hops? I have experimented with graphing mostly on trees and flowers. Never did a vine.....

 

[brewerelated]

I don't know if grafting would work, but everything dies back in the fall so if you did successfully graft something it would be just for a season.

 

[PapaBearJay]

Yesterday i found a hop bush(calling it that because it has been there for many many years and no pruning ever). I assume it was planted there on purpose. So i thought to myself i could use another hop or two. So i collected two rhizomes. My question.... is there a way to find out what species it is? I have several different hop varieties currently and do not really have room for something i already have. Well so swmbo says.


Also is graphing an option with hops? I have experimented with graphing mostly on trees and flowers. Never did a vine.....

BR hit the nose on the grafting portion there, which I also had a conversation in my lab the other day about. Even if you were to successfully graft the plant, and successfully harvest, etc. You would have to make yearly grafts.

Even if you reached a point where you could retain the graft from year to year, what do you do about rhizomes? Two varieties on on plant is only a novelty when you can't turn and sell your hops to a brewer because they're not pure varietals.

To the second piece of that, yes you can identify the species, and a trained taxonomic professional could probably identify the subvariety, but trying to identify the cultivar would take molecular evidence to actually identify, and I say that because so many varieties are so closely related that their phenological characteristics are not conclusive evidence for proper ID.

This is evident in the USDA GRIN database, even several H. lupulus were misidentified as H. japonicus for a number of years before close examination proved otherwise.



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[DerrangedPOJO]

Thanks for the reply! i agreed on the graphing part however i wasnt sure if you could graph the rhizome therefore it would re grow every year??? Everything i ever graphed was above ground. Thought if a little hydroponics was used if you could preserve the graph under a medium.... I am by know means an expert just like to tinker and try different experiments. I love science possibilities are endless!

As far as my hops i can try to use the smell test to compare it to a hop i already have. Also compare the vine and leaves. to make an educated guess so to speak.. But also could be very wrong.

 

[brewerelated]

I didn't really think of that, but I guess you could graft and perhaps keep a part of the scion portion under a little dirt and get it to become a rhizomes by keeping it covered in dirt. You could potentially end up with a dual variety rhizome.

It wouldn't make commercial sense and maybe not even practical sense, but it would be interesting from a scientific perspective.

 

[PapaBearJay]

I didn't really think of that, but I guess you could graft and perhaps keep a part of the scion portion under a little dirt and get it to become a rhizomes by keeping it covered in dirt. You could potentially end up with a dual variety rhizome.

It wouldn't make commercial sense and maybe not even practical sense, but it would be interesting from a scientific perspective.

Indeed it would!


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[alane1]

Yesterday i found a hop bush(calling it that because it has been there for many many years and no pruning ever). I assume it was planted there on purpose. So i thought to myself i could use another hop or two. So i collected two rhizomes. My question.... is there a way to find out what species it is? I have several different hop varieties currently and do not really have room for something i already have. Well so swmbo says.


Also is graphing an option with hops? I have experimented with graphing mostly on trees and flowers. Never did a vine.....

Where was the plant found? On private property, or near a railroad? If you can guess roughly how old it is, that also may provide some clues to what strain it might be.

 

[DerrangedPOJO]

I have found it on Private Property that has been owned for a long time..... down side it is a farm where the hired hand lives at this house. Many people come and go. No one can tell me how old this thing is. Or how long they think this has been there. Well one Manager of the farm said atleat 5 years. From what doesnt get mowed down is about 8feet long and 3 feet wide area. All filled with rhizomes!! This thing has a network of rhizomes. And no not near a railroad.

 

[brewerelated]

My question.... is there a way to find out what species it is? I have several different hop varieties currently and do not really have room for something i already have. Well so swmbo says.

Hopefully this will be some wild variety. A lot of us here are looking for some wild hops for our hop breeding experiments.

 

[PapaBearJay]

Hopefully this will be some wild variety. A lot of us here are looking for some wild hops for our hop breeding experiments.

Here's another call to any "wild" hop finders. You have takers for cuttings, rhizomes, and seeds!

 

[PapaBearJay]

Attached are pictures of a 4-month old Sterling cutting. The brown stem was initially a green softwood cutting. Rhizomes began forming on this sooner, than those on a Centennial cutting taken 4 weeks prior to this.

 

[mdennytoo]

It seems like there is undocumemted breeding all the time. I order Freshops whole hops and they are full of seeds. I guess that in Idaho and Washington the hop yards are adjacent to breeding yards where there are male plants. Each seed has to be a random hybrid between the cascade or us fuggles you know you bought, and some unknown male. Sheer statistics would produce a winning new variety or two every year if you were willing to germinate every one and see what they become.

Sent from my GMXb6277 DumbPhone.

 

[PapaBearJay]

It seems like there is undocumemted breeding all the time. I order Freshops whole hops and they are full of seeds. I guess that in Idaho and Washington the hop yards are adjacent to breeding yards where there are male plants. Each seed has to be a random hybrid between the cascade or us fuggles you know you bought, and some unknown male. Sheer statistics would produce a winning new variety or two every year if you were willing to germinate every one and see what they become.

Sent from my GMXb6277 DumbPhone.

Well, feel free to pass them along if you would...save'em up and ship'em out!

 

[brewerelated]

Attached are pictures of a 4-month old Sterling cutting. The brown stem was initially a green softwood cutting. Rhizomes began forming on this sooner, than those on a Centennial cutting taken 4 weeks prior to this

Can you explain the process of creating rhizomes from cuttings? How long does it take the cutting to form roots and rhizomes?

 

[PapaBearJay]

Can you explain the process of creating rhizomes from cuttings? How long does it take the cutting to form roots and rhizomes?

A mature plant has formed a crown, or a central "brain". This is where new growth will generally occur during the following season. If one is to take a cutting, as pictured above, the plant will expend energy in forming new roots. Eventually, either as a response to an environmental stimulus (daylength, nutrition, temperature, etc.) or simply a temporal response, the plant will begin to form rhizomes, which will provide nutrients for the dormant state and provide a site of active growth if something were to happen to the mature crown (a means of survival).

The plants pictured above are just over 4 months old. I initially began seeing rhizome formation and development at about 2.5 months. I will again emphasize this is varietal dependent, as the Centennial plants I currently have are grown under the exact same conditions and rhizome formation is significantly less.

 

[brewerelated]

I would like to create some rhizomes from cutting as well. Do you have any tips on how to go about that?

Can you take cuttings from side arms or do they have to come from bines that grow out of the soil?

How long of a cutting should you take? Is there anything special that you do to encourage root formation?