So who's worked in their main electrical panel?

[kevreh]

Just wondering how many out there worked in their main (house) panel to do wiring for their e-brewery. I understand the safety side (turn off main breaker, test leads, don't wear metal jewlery, etc..). I've done quite a bit electrical for remodelling, but am still a little spooked by it. Any success stories?

BTW, to make it 100% safe, is it possible to disconnect power to my house via the meter outside?


TIA

 

[Hammy71]

The power company doesn't like customers messing with the meter. Makes them get suspicious. Just be careful and you'll be fine. Course as an electrician...that's easy for me to say.

 

[mbauer013]

I've done it for remodel and my brewing setup - not a big deal really, especially for installing a breaker, you are never going to be touching the big leads and if you shut off the main power, even that isn't a concern (I guess depending upon your panel age and design) My breakers snap right in, connect the ground to ground bus and nuetral to nuetral bus and connect the leads to the breaker. 10-minute job really.

 

[kevreh]

Yeah, I was just reading on how controversial it is to pull power at the meter, plus I guess every state is different.

Related question- the main circuit breaker turns off all the branch circuits below it, at least in my panel. About it are more breakers, mostly 240. Why does the "main" circuit breaker only cut power to the circuits below it, versus, say, all the circuits? I guess that was phased out?

 

[Hammy71]

Do you have a disconnect outside? Weird that the main is in the middle. Only time I've seen that is in the older Square D panels with the split bus. My parents had one of the those...hated it. Like I said earlier....be careful.

 

[kevreh]

Its a GE Panel from the 60's.

 

[Poobah58]

If you have to ask those kinds of questions... GET AN ELECTRICIAN!!!

 

[cfrazier77]

I have worked on my panel before. As long as you pull the mains you are good. If you are concerned you can check that the power is dead with a multimeter.

You really don't want to do anything outside. I was a firefighter for many years and we pulled the meters on all house fires. We always wore heavy gloves and hit it off. Sometimes there was quite a bit of sparks.

 

[thadius856]

Jesus Christ. Don't listen to some these posts, OP. That's a recipe for disaster.

If you kill the main service disconnect, the lugs coming from the PoCo's side of the panel are still hot and carrying the full 240V @ 200A, or whatever your service is. If you don't know what this means, then really, you need to study up a lot more before attempting or hire it out.

Yeah, I was just reading on how controversial it is to pull power at the meter, plus I guess every state is different.

Related question- the main circuit breaker turns off all the branch circuits below it, at least in my panel. About it are more breakers, mostly 240. Why does the "main" circuit breaker only cut power to the circuits below it, versus, say, all the circuits? I guess that was phased out?

The main service disconnect kills everything downstream from it, which is... everything. If yours doesn't, then you likely have a serious code violation on your hands.

I've done it for remodel and my brewing setup - not a big deal really, especially for installing a breaker, you are never going to be touching the big leads and if you shut off the main power, even that isn't a concern (I guess depending upon your panel age and design) My breakers snap right in, connect the ground to ground bus and nuetral to nuetral bus and connect the leads to the breaker. 10-minute job really.

The "big leads" will kill you if you touch them, even if you shut off your service disconnect. If you want those to be de-energized, then you either need to have a pull disconnect upstream from the meter (unlikely) or have the PoCo pull the meter. My PoCo won't put the meter back in without the city inspector's tag, signature and date taped to panel. If your PoCo is anal, you could very well end up in the dark for weeks while you traverse the permitting process, then get an inspection.

If you want to do this yourself, please permit it. We just had a house fire this past year because I failed to find some unpermitted and faulty electrical work (burried under a foot of attic insulation).

Edit: Perhaps this will help show the seriousness of this. Here's pictures of what it looked like the morning after the fire department gutted the attic above my living room. I'm extremely lucky I didn't lose the whole house and nobody died.













Total cost was about $45,000 and counting.

 

[kevreh]

Damn, sorry to hear that. What was the cause? Wrong gauge wiring?

 

[thadius856]

Bad taping, loose and missing wire nuts, no lid on the junction box, cellulose insulation compacted into it, exceeded box fill, missing wire clamps and improper insulator choice (3x single conductor pole-ethylene high voltage wire instead of 3-wire NM).

Eventually a loose connection heated when we turned on the dryer and the freezer kicked on at the same time. It was a hot summer afternoon, probably around 120F in the attic, and the insulation finally hit flash point with the ohmic heating. Got lucky that I'd bough top quality paint, because I woke up around 2:30 am with 6-9" paint blisters all over the ceiling. None had popped yet, and they were right above my couch. Would have been the end of the house if one had burst and rained down embers.

 

[NivekD]

Posts like this scare the chit outta me...if you don't know what you're doin'...call an ELECTRICIAN.

 

[kevreh]

Bad taping, loose and missing wire nuts, no lid on the junction box, cellulose insulation compacted into it, exceeded box fill, missing wire clamps and improper insulator choice (3x single conductor pole-ethylene high voltage wire instead of 3-wire NM).

Eventually a loose connection heated when we turned on the dryer and the freezer kicked on at the same time. It was a hot summer afternoon, probably around 120F in the attic, and the insulation finally hit flash point with the ohmic heating. Got lucky that I'd bough top quality paint, because I woke up around 2:30 am with 6-9" paint blisters all over the ceiling. None had popped yet, and they were right above my couch. Would have been the end of the house if one had burst and rained down embers.

DAMN. That could be a case study on how to do everything wrong. I'm surprised just for the hell of it they didn't throw a couple penny's in there to promote arching

This is what gives electrical work a bad name. Whoever did that had complete lack of knowledge of any kind of common practices.

 

[kevreh]

Posts like this scare the chit outta me...if you don't know what you're doin'...call an ELECTRICIAN.

Who are you freaking out at??? If they scare you so much don't read them.

 

[NivekD]

Who are you freaking out at??? If they scare you so much don't read them.

Messin' around in electrical panels is serious stuff...as in, if you do something wrong, you might die.

 

[mbauer013]

Okay I should have worded my post differently. I used to work for an electrician (not as one myself but as paid labor) and installed a bunch of breakers under his supervision so I am comfortable doing it. If you don't know the first thing about electricity and how these panels work don't attempt it. If you know where not to touch and have seen it done right a few times it is pretty routine IMO. A lot easier than relocating fixtures or wiring your control box. If one isn't comfortable installing a breaker I just can't see how one would be comfortable fabricating and wiring a control panel.
Bottom line - if you are unsure or uncomfortable find qualified help.

 

[kevreh]

Agreed, for anyone not familiar with working with power, working in a panel is not a good place to start. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[thadius856]

DAMN. That could be a case study on how to do everything wrong. I'm surprised just for the hell of it they didn't throw a couple penny's in there to promote arching

This is what gives electrical work a bad name. Whoever did that had complete lack of knowledge of any kind of common practices.

Agreed. I had found other hack jobs in the attic and other rooms as well, and promptly fixed or removed them. Wish I'd caught this one, but as I said before, it was buried in the insulation and neither I nor the pre-purchase inspector caught it.

Afterwards, the insurance company paid to de-insulate the attic. I told the contractor that took on the repairs that I wanted them to leave it de-insulated for 3 months - that they were only to touch electrical that had to do with the fire. I pulled permits to fix everything else that wasn't covered, add extra circuits, replaced most of the existing wiring, and re-wired the kitchen.

If anybody needs help with electrical in a residential setting, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm not an electrician, but I can help point you in the right direction at least. I just ask that you work on it safely and pull permits for it.

 

[kevreh]

Makes you wonder if the money you spent on the pre-purchase inspection was worth it or not Not to keep you up at night, but I hope they didn't bury anything (open wiring) in the walls.

Sounds like you did what you could do tidy things up.

 

[gtmaus]

As an electrician I do this everyday. It's not that big of a deal. Kill the main breaker, test to make sure it killed the power and don't touch the main feed coming in as it's still hot. Be careful and good luck with your project

 

[Aaron1983]

What I have done in the past when I needed line power shut off to the main panel is call the utility company. For a fee they will come out and pull the meter and come back after you have the work inspected (unless an inspection is not required).

 

[kal]

Everything's been answered but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents:

If you have to ask those kinds of questions... GET AN ELECTRICIAN!!!

+1. If you have to ask, please don't go anywhere near your panel. While it's fairly straight forward work for many people and many don't have issues recommending someone do it, not everyone has the same knowledge or common sense about these things. So when someone asks the question that basically amounts to "should I do it" I would hope that everyone's answer would not "no".

I have worked on my panel before. As long as you pull the mains you are good.

It's not just about working safely while the panel is open, it's making sure you actually wire things correctly so that you hopefully never have an issue after the power is back on too. Poorly done work in the electrical panel can cause issues the moment you turn the power back on, the next day, or 10 years down the road.

Bad taping, loose and missing wire nuts, no lid on the junction box, cellulose insulation compacted into it, exceeded box fill, missing wire clamps and improper insulator choice (3x single conductor pole-ethylene high voltage wire instead of 3-wire NM).

A great example on how many things done incorrectly can lead to a fire: Loose/missing wire nuts can cause wires connections to loosen over time which causes resistance to build up because of charring, which in turn causes heat, and then because of wrong wire type and no cover and exceeding box fill, the heat heats up insulation in close proximity which catches fire.

It likely worked perfectly for years.

Same reason you shouldn't mess in your breaker panel if you have any doubts or have to ask any questions.

I myself have done work in the panels of all the houses I've own but I've always pulled permits and had it inspected. If you do any work, do the same. The cost of permitting is not expensive.

Makes you wonder if the money you spent on the pre-purchase inspection was worth it or not Not to keep you up at night, but I hope they didn't bury anything (open wiring) in the walls.

No home inspector does invasive inspection. It's only what they can see.

Kal

 

[Weezy]

I'm very comfortable with working with electricity, but my comfort level stops at the panel. I'll second the recommendations to call someone. I just set up an appointment with an electrician. I need a 20A for a new pool...but it'll be convenient to discuss possibilities for a couple circuits for a brewery.

 

[dannylerch]

I am an electrician in the film industry. We tie in to breaker boxes all the time. Remember, amps kill not voltage. Plug in power in this order. Green(Ground), White(Neutral), Red, Blue, Black. Always end the sequence with your hot legs. Make sure you don't have a knee on the ground, make sure you are wearing rubber soled shoes, make sure your feet aren't wet. ETC, basically you don't want your body to complete the circuit. If you have any doubts, hire a professional, preferably an electrician who is in a union. Because if they aren't union, they are probably a hack.

 

[kevreh]

....

I myself have done work in the panels of all the houses I've own but I've always pulled permits and had it inspected. If you do any work, do the same. The cost of permitting is not expensive.


Kal

Good point Kal. People unfairly view (county) inspectors as a nuisance, but they can provide a good (and relatively cheap) 2nd set of eyes to make sure things are done safely and correct. This applies to other things too (framing, plumbing).

 

[kal]

It's not only about getting a second set of eyes either, it's about liability as well.

They sign off that the work which means if ever (god forbid) something was to happen and cause a fire or other issue that requires investigation, the insurance company will have less issues paying you because the work was inspected.

If an insurance company can prove that a fire was due to something done incorrectly that *YOU* did yourself and you did not pay for permiting or inspections, then they have cause to not pay out. I'm not saying they wouldn't, but it could get sticky.

So personal safety aside, is someone willing to gamble the value of their house to save a few bucks by not having their electrical work inspected?

Kal

 

[Oldskooler]

I got this from a HBT thread:

Working with electricity is dangerous, you could die or be seriously injured by electricity! If you die you will not be able to brew or consume beer any longer.

Be safe

 

[crazyirishman34]

One thing that I have to stress is don't remove your meter yourself. If you install it incorrectly it can explode.

http://www.electrical-contractor.ne...hp/topics/147346/Electric_Meter_Explodes.html

 

[beaksnbeer]

I replaced my whole box when we purchased our house there were so many piggy-backs and jumpers the house failed the inspections. The condition that needed to be repaired "BEFORE" we could move in. Our electric company is a co-op so was only $50 to remove/install the meter, I removed and upgraded the box (pulled permits of course and had inspections) added $7500.00 to the value of the house.

 

[SpentGrains]

what i have done in the past when i needed line power shut off to the main panel is call the utility company. For a fee they will come out and pull the meter and come back after you have the work inspected (unless an inspection is not required).

+10 pull the meter.