So, tell me about Gin... and how to replicate its taste in beer

[ArcaneXor]

(Yes, this is on-topic, please bear with me)

Because of a couple of "incidents" with hard liquor when I was a teenager, my body can't handle the stuff now, and reacts pretty violently to even small amounts of it (just hearing the word Tequila makes my stomach churn...) So I didn't have my first taste of Gin (Beefeater) until a couple of weeks ago, and surprisingly found it quite enjoyable.

I have played around with it for a little bit since, and found that adding about a tablespoon of gin into a 12-oz glass of my Chamomile Witbier results in a really wonderfully complex, refreshing beverage - the two complement each other extremely well!

I understand that gin is flavored with juniper berries... would adding the berries to the boil, or the fermenter, result in similar flavor characteristics in a beer? I know there are some commercial examples out there that use juniper berries, but those tend to be pale ales or darker beers, so they are not exactly a good model for what a juniper-wit might taste like. Any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[McKBrew]

Interesting.

Since you have no issues with dumping a tablespoon or so in 12oz, how about using some oak chips soaked in gin and putting the beer through a secondary for a short period of time?

 

[DUCCCC]

Wikipedia has a pretty decent write up on juniper berries.

Looks like a quick Googling will give some more informative results.

Personally I might consider making a "tea" with some berries to see what kind of concentration I get, while sanitizing them too, and then add that to my brew in incremental amounts until I found a happy amount.

That said, I think Gin is vile.

Enjoy!

 

[Reverend JC]

I think gin has a pine like flavor. I would try some spring time spruce tips the secondary along with the juniper berries. keep in mind I have not soiled a beer with either.

 

[Skins_Brew]

Man, i know exactly what you are talking about! When I was like 15 I got extremely drunk off goldschalger. Before that night, I loved the stuff. After that night though, even the thought of the way goldschlager smells or tastes makes me want to puke.

 

[Revvy]

Claphasma's asking the same thing for mead https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f30/juniper-berries-96860/

But I think he's going for something different.

 

[Shawn Hargreaves]

Juniper berries are a good start, but gin is actually flavored with a complex blend of different botanicals. The details vary from one brand to the next (and most keep the exact flavorings as a closely held secret) but in addition to the juniper, there will almost always be some orange and/or lemon peel, plus some mix of things like angelica root and seed, orris root, liquorice, cinnamon, coriander, cassia bark, and almonds. The distinctive flavor comes from a blend rather than any single ingredient.

But yeah, any combination of those ingredients seem like a reasonable fit for a wit. I'm curious to know how this turns out if you try any of these!

 

[ArcaneXor]

Juniper berries are a good start, but gin is actually flavored with a complex blend of different botanicals. The details vary from one brand to the next (and most keep the exact flavorings as a closely held secret) but in addition to the juniper, there will almost always be some orange and/or lemon peel, plus some mix of things like angelica root and seed, orris root, liquorice, cinnamon, coriander, cassia bark, and almonds. The distinctive flavor comes from a blend rather than any single ingredient.

But yeah, any combination of those ingredients seem like a reasonable fit for a wit. I'm curious to know how this turns out if you try any of these!

That's interesting, since there is quite a bit of overlap between those botanicals and what commonly goes into Witbiers. I think I'll be doing some 1-gallon pilot batches later this spring and see how they come out.

Thanks for the feedback! I'll post an update once I get around to messing with these ingredients.

 

[olllllo]

Bartenders hop up cocktail flavors with beer

Note the Green Duvel

Duvel, Gin and Absinthe

 

[k1v1116]

I think it will be difficult to get a gin like flavor in beer, the botanicals that give gin its flavor are macerated in strong alcohol which is a much better solvent than beer. The whole mixture is then distilled which leaves behind a lot of the flavor components of the botanicals, so you only get very select elements of juniper and other flavors. I think your best bet is to play around with things like spruce tips, and ginger which can give a gin like pineyness and bite to beer.

 

[lustreking]

I have played around with it for a little bit since, and found that adding about a tablespoon of gin into a 12-oz glass of my Chamomile Witbier results in a really wonderfully complex, refreshing beverage - the two complement each other extremely well!

How about just putting ~27 ounces of gin in a 5 gallon batch to get the exact taste that you want? I would imagine that the easiest way to get it to taste like it has some gin in it is to actually put gin in it.

Did I do the math right? That's over a fifth...

 

[rph33]

I like the idea of using various liquors in beer.

But just seeing the word "gin" on my screen makes me want to convulse violently and wretch all over my keyboard. Can't stand the stuff.

Good luck with the experiment though! Maybe I'll try a Jaegerbeer if yours goes well.

 

[jgln]

Doesn't sound appealing to me, although I love a gin and tonic.

 

[ArcaneXor]

How about just putting ~27 ounces of gin in a 5 gallon batch to get the exact taste that you want? I would imagine that the easiest way to get it to taste like it has some gin in it is to actually put gin in it.

Did I do the math right? That's over a fifth...

Yeah... but why do it the easy way when there is a complicated way to do it?

To clarify, I am intrigued by how the spicy/herbal flavor of the gin blends with the Witbier more than by the taste of gin itself (adding too much gin actually makes the drink quite unpalatable because the alcohol flavor really starts overwhelming everything else). I think I'll start with the following:

1.) Witbier base recipe w/Chamomile
2.) Witbier w/Chamomile and Juniper Berries
3.) Witbier w/Chamomile and spruce tips (if I kind find some here in Florida, I think spruce trees are more of a temperate/boreal genus)
4.) Witbier w/ all of the above

I am looking forward to it.

 

[ctbrewer227]

TEQUILA Esp. patron evil stuff I cant even take a whiff of the stuff without puking or feeling like im going to anyways got sick off it once havent been able to have it since i know how you feel arcane

 

[mattmcl]

If you need spruce tips, let me know. We've got a 10 foot Colorado spruce in the front yard that's growing like crazy.

edit: though I believe you should use new growth, which we won't see much of until spring...

 

[DrinksWellWithOthers]

They make a lot of liqueur extracts like rum, tequila, bourbon, irish cream, etc but I don't think I've ever seen gin. It might be worth looking into though.

 

[Revvy]

Oh my god...I may have found you something by accident...

I was curious becausue I thought maybe there was a "gin extract" flavoring for hooch makers to use (or I should say home distillers)...I figured since you can get flavorings for other, liquors like rum and stuff that you add to your liquor base...I figured you could just buy a vial and chuck it into you batch...

SO I googled gin extract gin flavoring...and this article came up..

Word of Mouth: My Quest for Non-Alcoholic Gin

The author is trying to make non alcoholic gin, because he likes the flavor...He offers osme suggestions for flavoring...I've just skimmned it, but the one thing that popped out was using dangostino bitters and juniper extract (from your neighborhood health food store where it is a herbal remidy)...

Maybe you will find something good ideas in there..it might be worth fooling around with it.

 

[Revvy]

This was another link in the article...it might help too..

Gin Facts

 

[enderwig]

This is totally but, a shot of Kahluah is awesome in a porter or stout!

 

[ArcaneXor]

Awesome, Revvy! You never disappoint! Thanks!

 

[Revvy]

Hope it helps

Let us know what you figure out.

 

[DrinksWellWithOthers]

Stumbled upon some gin liqueur extract while looking for something else.

Hop Tech - Bombay Gin Liqueur Extract

 

[bad coffee]

I'm in the middle of 'sacred and herbal healing beers' by buhner. There was just a section on juniper.

5# 2 row
2# juniper branches with berries
7gals water

Boil juniper in 7 gallons for 60min
Mash the malt with 2 gallons juniper water for 90
Sparge with two more gallons.
Add whats left and boil down to 5 gallons.
Cool and pitch.

 

[Ichi-Go]

Ever tried Rogue's Juniper Ale stuff is delish.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Ever tried Rogue's Juniper Ale stuff is delish.

Picked a bottle up tonight Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Just to give a brief update, I will be using juniper berries as a late addition to my next Wit batch and see how that goes. While I didn't exactly love the Rogue Juniper Ale, it did have a hint of the flavor I am looking to add to my witbier. I will be brewing this within the next few weeks.

If the final result doesn't hit the mark, I'll play around with additional ingredients mentioned in the thread.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

 

[ArcaneXor]

I just tasted my hydrometer sample after 11 days in the primary, and it's absolutely divine. The gin/juniper character is present, but very subdued, blending perfectly with the complexity of the witbier.

This is the recipe:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: Juniper Chamomile Witbier
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: Witbier
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 3.31 gal
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 6.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 13.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 lb Wheat Liquid Extract [Boil for 15 min] Extract 37.74 %
2.00 lb Wheat Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 25.16 %
1.25 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 15.72 %
1.00 lb Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 12.58 %
0.50 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 6.29 %
0.20 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2.52 %
0.50 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 10.6 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (5 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Celestial Seasonings Chamomile tea bag (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 oz Juniper Berries (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [StartYeast-Wheat 900 ml]


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 2.95 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Witbier Mash Add 5.90 qt of water at 160.0 F 152.0 F

 

[hukdizzle]

This sounds really good, think i'm going to do this recipe.

 

[no1likesme]

This is totally but, a shot of Kahluah is awesome in a porter or stout!

along the same lines, a pint of Guinness extra stout (or other carbonated stout/porter) a half shot of Jagermeister and a scoop of vanilla ice cream is pretty much the best thing in the world.

 

[GinSlinger]

I just tasted my hydrometer sample after 11 days in the primary, and it's absolutely divine. The gin/juniper character is present, but very subdued, blending perfectly with the complexity of the witbier.

This is the recipe:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: Juniper Chamomile Witbier
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: Witbier
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 3.31 gal
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 6.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 13.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 lb Wheat Liquid Extract [Boil for 15 min] Extract 37.74 %
2.00 lb Wheat Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 25.16 %
1.25 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 15.72 %
1.00 lb Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 12.58 %
0.50 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 6.29 %
0.20 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2.52 %
0.50 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 10.6 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (5 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Celestial Seasonings Chamomile tea bag (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 oz Juniper Berries (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [StartYeast-Wheat 900 ml]


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 2.95 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Witbier Mash Add 5.90 qt of water at 160.0 F 152.0 F

So, um, after all these years, how did this turn out?

Sorry to necromance a thread, but I'm curious about making a Gin/ginger saison when the temps warm up. Anyone chime in on this?

 

[ArcaneXor]

Wow, that was a long time ago. I remember the gin-like character fading fairly quickly, leaving just a weird kind of piney bite in the beer after a few weeks. I haven't tried brewing this recipe again, but if I did, I would probably try one of those Liquor Quik gin essence bottles to get some extra, longer-lasting character in there.

 

[GinSlinger]

Wow, that was a long time ago. I remember the gin-like character fading fairly quickly, leaving just a weird kind of piney bite in the beer after a few weeks. I haven't tried brewing this recipe again, but if I did, I would probably try one of those Liquor Quik gin essence bottles to get some extra, longer-lasting character in there.

Thanks! I'm thinking a Saison with ginger, peppercorn, juniper, corriander, lemon peel is the way to do it. It will be a lot of work getting the recipe together without extract, but again I thank you!

 

[jgln]

What is all the talk about using spruce and pine needles when jumiper berries smell EXACTLY like gin? Regardless of what else they put in gin juniper berries are the dominant taste/smell.

 

[bb239605]

As I big fan of gin, I must say that the overwhelming pine/ Juniper flavor has become subdued with time and palate training. I tend to taste the less prominent flavors more and more the
More I drink different gin.

It is like that with ipas for me to. At first it was must bitterness but now I taste the differences in bitterness, and the different flavor of hop types.

I guess what the point is, well I forgot the point, but gin is good, and I have enjoyed every Juniper beer I made. Also don't use those essences they taste fake because they usually are. You can make your own infusion if need be.

 

[spearko520]

some things are just better distilled... or is that all things?...