So I'm thinking of building an aeration wand...

[FlyGuy]

To summarize some good information scattered throughout this thread, any means by which you entrain air into your cooled wort is considered aeration. The maximum amount of O2 you can introduce to your wort is 8 ppm, which is essentially the atmospheric concentration. 10 - 15 ppm is recommended for normal to high gravity brews, and to achieve that level you must inject pure oxygen using an oxygenation system.

A good FAQ with many of these points can be found on the Wyeast Labs website:
http://wyeastlab.com/faqs.cfm?website=1

I don't remember the source off the top of my head, but I believe the guys at White Labs did some trials and found that shaking your carboy vigorously for two minutes was as good an aeration technique as any. I would guess that using a mixer (e.g., paint mixer or wine degasser on the end of a drill) for a few minutes would be equally successful. I don't know how well aeration wands fare -- IIRC, they don't do as good a job because there is less entrainment of air, only passive exposure to air.

EDIT: mr x beat me to it. His URL below is the study I was thinking of.

Start at the Wyeast website, and root around for oxygenation info. I'll try to locate the info.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm

there it is

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

ty much!

I just read the entire thread on beer brewing yeasts on the Wyeast page. I think I'll wait til I get an O2 tank for this wand...


Thanks All!!!

 

[njnear76]

Holy crap Batman!

I just pour 3-4 gallons back and forth 30-50 times, the whole 5.5 gallons once through a strainer, and I spend a minute shaking the carboy.

It always worked for me.

 

[Bobby_M]

There are pros and cons to every method. Some methods are more work intensive, some are more likely to expose your wort to contamination, some are more expensive, etc.

One thing that hasn't even been asked yet is whether or not you are doing full boils or partial boils with unboiled top up water. If you're adding any fresh water back in, you're already adding oxygen back in.

If you are doing full boils, aggitation methods are borderline good enough and people who use these methods will argue all day long that they make great beer. It's probably true most of the time. You better be pitching enough cells and not into a big Imperial something...

I use O2 like many others and it's slightly more expensive but is generally fool proof and less manual labor. It also has the least chance of contamination given the amount of o2 you get out of it. If only someone had a line on cheap lefty regulators huh... I bet there's a warehouse in China with a billion of them.

 

[olllllo]

Yeah, that open with a quarter turn and not 3 turns for full blast.

 

[Bobby_M]

Hey, you know with all the guys that do custom machining here, how about making a connector that threads onto the O2 tanks and has a 1/4" Female NPT on them. Bang out about 50, and sell them to all of us for $10 each. I'm waiting...

 

[rickk]

My $0.02

The most important point on the wyeast site is that 8ppm is saturation when using air, and it occurs in under a minute of swishing the wort.

I find that I can create hundreds of thousands of tiny bubbles by swirling clockwise a few times, then reversing. Done this way, agitation requires a minimal effort, and I therefore prefer not to deal with extra cost/equipment/sanitizing.

I tried the little plastic thing posted before, and I threw it away. The wyeast site confirms what I suspected: it is inadequate.

If at some point I suspect inadequate aeration, I will probably just get an O2 tank and then use it to fill the head space before swishing. Seems like the simplest solution.

 

[SixFoFalcon]

Shaking the carboy works fine if you are comfortable doing that. I've also tried the plastic end-of-the-siphon-hose thing and I don't think it does much actual aeration.

Regarding the O2 systems, I have been working on my setup for a while. I found an O2 regulator on eBay for roughly $30 after factoring in the shipping--not a steal but not a bad price. Here's the catch... it has LH threads on the bottle fitting a 9/16"-18 RH threaded inverted flare on the output. Basically that means that only fittings designed for O2 in welding applications will fit--and they are a PITA to find w/o buying a whole O2 hose w/ fittings already installed. I eventually found the proper fitting at Fastenal, but suffice it to say I would rather have paid the extra couple of bucks to get a regulator that already has the standard barb fitting. In fact, by the time you figure in the cost of the stone, regulator, etc. it's better to just suck it up and pay $45-55 for the whole O2 setup minus the bottle. And look for one that has a wand or use a racking cane so you can get the stone to the bottom of the fermenter when you oxygenate.

I think the wine degassers would do a fine job--as good as any of the other "air" methods. Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.

 

[Bobby_M]

My $0.02

The most important point on the wyeast site is that 8ppm is saturation when using air, and it occurs in under a minute of swishing the wort.

I find that I can create hundreds of thousands of tiny bubbles by swirling clockwise a few times, then reversing. Done this way, agitation requires a minimal effort, and I therefore prefer not to deal with extra cost/equipment/sanitizing.

I have a feeling that the swirling you describe is a bit less vigorous than the "shaking" they describe on the site. I'm not saying it's not enough, but I don't think it's 8ppm. Just my guess. I mean, a frothy foam on the surface says nothing of DO in the entire wort.

 

[mrkristofo]

Anyone know where yo can pick up the regulator piece for the O2 tank (mcmastercarr?). It has to be cheaper than the $30 the homebrew shops sell it for...

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

You can also integrate O2 into a CFC.

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

customizing is certianly not an issue for me. I need to get a look at these O2 bottles and their regulators and I can probably make just about anything... Bobby- if you give me more details of what you want, I can whip em up like mad... 4 hydraulic engineers can build just about anything... They also work for beer...

 

[Bobby_M]

Nope, there's no cheaper source out there. I think the last time I checked, williamsbrewing had the best deal. I found one still attached to a red tank at the recycling yard. It was a one in a million shot and I got lucky so I don't really need one. I'm just thinking outside the box for the countless brewers looking for a sub $20 solution to getting O2 from a tank to a hose.

I guess the first issue would be figuring out what threads those bottles use. If you can machine even a simple block of steel that threads on and has a center pin to hit the built in valve, you can get O2 into the block. From there a simple 1/4" NPT tap is fine. Thread in a needle valve with a hose barb on the other end and we're oxygenating....

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

Machining a block with a male thread would be very expensive... I don't think it would be cost effective... I'm going to my local hardware store to check out what they have...

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

Machining a block with a male thread would be very expensive... I don't think it would be cost effective... I'm going to my local hardware store to check out what they have...

Not only that, but it would also need a hollow needle to open the stop on the cylinder and allow flow.

 

[Spyk'd]

Here you go Yoop!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=173368&postcount=20

 

[SixFoFalcon]

Now that I got everything, I can give an honest break-down of the cost.

$35.49 Oxygen regulator (including shipping)
$12.95 2 micron carb stone
$0.63 7B Oxygen hose nut
$0.63 1/4" Oxygen hose barb
$1.99 (est) 10' of 1/4" hose (I forget exactly how much it was, but it was under $3)
$10 (est) Oxygen cylinder
--------
$61.69

So that's about $50 + the cost of the oxygen cylinder--Not that much cheaper than just buying one of the kits from a retailer, really. I will probably use a corny dip tube for the "wand" or tie a fishing weight to the stone.

 

[jds]

For those building adapters for regulators, please keep in mind that one of the reasons CGA specifications for regulators include weird threading for Oxygen and other gases is to prevent connecting the wrong kind of regulator. Oxygen is funny stuff, and at high pressure, reacts VERY powerfully with seemingly inert materials like grease and Aluminum.

Sp please, if you're going to fool with it, go slow, and make sure you REALLY know what you're doing. An aluminum adapter with a coating of cutting oil on it on the high-pressure side of an Oxygen bottle is a recipe for a big, huge, deadly disaster. Brew safely.

 

[FlyGuy]

Now that I got everything, I can give an honest break-down of the cost.

$35.49 Oxygen regulator (including shipping)
$12.95 2 micron carb stone

I hope it is not too late, but you want a 0.5 micron stone when pushing pure O2, not a 2 micron stone (those are for aeration pumps). The 2 micron stone will work with an O2 tank, but it isn't nearly as efficient/effective as the finer stone because the bubbles will be larger and won't diffuse into the wort as well.

 

[dbsmalls]

Hi everyone, I have a O2 setup from Williamsbrewing as well. I have been injecting my chilled wort in the carboy for 15 seconds, pausing, then giving it another 15 seconds at about 3/4 volume. I've had good results so far. Does anyone have any better methods? Is this enough time for the O2 to get dissolved?

 

[SixFoFalcon]

I hope it is not too late, but you want a 0.5 micron stone when pushing pure O2, not a 2 micron stone (those are for aeration pumps). The 2 micron stone will work with an O2 tank, but it isn't nearly as efficient/effective as the finer stone because the bubbles will be larger and won't diffuse into the wort as well.

In practice it's not a big deal because even the 2 micron size, while not as efficient, will only require a short period of time to oxygenate the wort to optimum levels. And this way I can also use the same stone for aeration if the need arises. The same is true for carbonation--finer is better, but 2 microns will get the job done.

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

I'm not planning on building my own regulator... From the sites I have looked at, it is FAR cheaper to buy a setup than build the same thing. While I have a full machine shop at my hands along with experienced hydraulic engineers, its not worth the trouble.

A 40 dollar kit works fine for me...

 

[SixFoFalcon]

Damn... Northern Brewer now has a kit with regulator, stone, and hose for $35.99.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/aeration.html

 

[SuperiorBrew]

Does anyone have an option for me that won't lead to 3 pages of argument?I

What fun would that be?

Yea, Stay home this Saturday night insted of going out, use the cash you saved for one of these.

In the long run I bet you will be saving money anyhow. I started by shaking, then the pump, hose and stone, now I have the tank and wand. Works much better and I could have saved the cash I paid for the pump and stone set up if I would have done it that way and probably had better beer to boot

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

We can drink our own beer at our local bar... guy is a personal friend...

 

[Bobby_M]

I wasn't really suggesting anyone could build a reg cheaply. I was just talking about what it would take. I personally have a medical tank that I suspect will be hard to get filled once it empties.