So, I want to brew, but I'm on a broke ass budget...

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Jonthewizard

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Hey guys, I’m currently putting my brewing setup together, and since I’m going to invest very small amounts of money every month or so because of my financial situation, I wanted to make a priority list of some sort, to figure out what I need first, and then how I can expand slowly. So here it goes.

- I already have a 42qts pot with a turkey fryer burner that I got at Walmart. It’s thin walled but it’ll have to do for now.
- I’m getting a 48qts picnic cooler and DIYing it as my MLT. It’s almost done.
- I’ll buy two 6 gallons buckets, one for fermenting, and then one for Bottling. I figure if I want to make another batch while the first one is fermenting, I’ll just grab another bucket when I go buy my ingredients.
- I’m looking at cooling options, but from what I gather, nothing seems worth putting money on besides a copper IC with garden hose adaptor. I’m planning on making it 50’ long out of ⅜ flexible copper. It might seem long, but read on.
- Frome here, a bunch of small stuff, an auto-siphon, a bottle capper, hoses, a sanitizing bin…

This seems like a good Starting point to make 5 gallons batches. And then I read that everyone that starts doing 5 gal eventually wants to move up to 10 because 5 gallons goes by fast on a hot summer day with a couple of friends in the Jacuzzi. So I figure I stick with that for a while and hone in on some recipes. And then…

- I want to get an 80qts Pot and an appropriate burner. If I’m not mistaken, I already have a setup that can do 10 gal batches if I use my 42qts pot as my HLT and my MLT is plenty big enough to make 10 gallons as well. All I need is a big enough Pot for full boil. But this is all still manual so next…
- I’m thinking of a March pump. By now, volumes are high enough that stuff is getting real heavy. I want to make the lifting part go away and take the risk of accidents out of the picture. And having a pump enables me to use my IC in a Herms system.

From there, I’m thinking I’ll move on to kegging and building a chest freezer into a Kegerator, but that’s a whole different kettle of fish for now. I want to keep the costs steady and if I ever find out that I hate brewing (I don’t think that’s possible, but hey you never know…), I don’t want to be the guy that spend a Thousand bucks straight away. I also figure it’ll slowly get me used to the process. I think I can manage to have the full set-up done by then end of summer if I like it, and then think about kegs and chest freezers this fall.

I’m really trying to take the humble approach here, I’m really serious about this and I want to do it right. Any thoughts on what I forgot ? Or some priorities I might have gotten wrong ?
 
An soon as practicable, start haunting Craig's List to find a cheap, used fridge. With a temperature controller built from an STC-1000, you can get into controlling ferment temperatures for under $100... Under $75, if you look hard enough.

Your beer will improve by a couple of orders of magnitude. Trust me...
 
Craigslist is your friend! Definitely make your own copper IC, it's really easy and much cheaper than buying one.
 
If the OP listed his location, Montreal, it would takes the suggesting game to a whole different level.

I don't want to sound snippy, but not revealing your location before being able to post is a major flaw on this board.
Very counter productive, and not the OP's fault, per se.
 
If I could start over, I would skip extract and traditional mash and go straight to BIAB, that saves you some ingredients and equipment costs since you only need one pot.

Also, I would skip the chiller altogether since I now do no-chill (with great results BTW)

Reuse your yeast and grow as much as possible, hops are easy to grow, but grains are a little more finicky and require more land
 
roastquake said:
If I could start over, I would skip extract and traditional mash and go straight to BIAB, that saves you some ingredients and equipment costs since you only need one pot.

Also, I would skip the chiller altogether since I now do no-chill (with great results BTW)

Reuse your yeast and grow as much as possible, hops are easy to grow, but grains are a little more finicky and require more land
Click to expand...

Fully agree about BIAB. The OP is already in the middle of making his MLT tough.
 
Yeah I looked into BIAB, but I don't know, I like the idea of HERMS, so I want to navigate that way while building my setup. I'm looking into reusing the yeast and am looking into building my stir plate from a computer fan. I'm not looking to spend as little money as possible though. I'm just trying to lessen the sticker shock by diffusing it over the course of a summer.

And sorry for the location, it just didn't seem relevant. I'll update my profile. What IS relevant though, is that this setup will be used to make some high gravity beers, so that might give you a better idea of what i'll put my brewhouse through. And if it's of any importance, I have a relatively big shed which will only be used for brewing once i get it cleared.
 
ianw58 said:
An soon as practicable, start haunting Craig's List to find a cheap, used fridge. With a temperature controller built from an STC-1000, you can get into controlling ferment temperatures for under $100... Under $75, if you look hard enough.
Click to expand...

Yes I thought about this. Although The Son of Fermentation Chiller looked easy enough to build on the cheap side. I'll have to compare both options.

And I thought also about using my aquarium air pump (I also love aquariums) for aerating, though it seems it's not exactly necessary if you do your yeast starters right. I'm still researching this.

I guess to each his own. I enjoy making stuff and I like the full process. I'm not looking for the easiest way, even if I'm overcomplicating this.
 
I think your equipment list looks good! Any of those miscellaneous items (auto-siphon, tubing, airlocks, sanitizer) can all be bought at the local shop (or online) for possibly under $50.

But I'll echo what was said before - Craigslist. Around my area, it seems like someone is always unloading their stockpile of gear. And we're talking gear from 3 gallon pots and tubing to HERMS systems and kegeraters.

The largest cash outlay is the equipment. Beyond that, you can probably comfortably brew any 5 gallon batch for under $30 (that's $.60/beer, not bad).
 
I haven't forked over the cash for copper yet. I just use a large coleman cooler. Buy two bags of ice, put wort pot in cooler, put ice in cooler, and fill with water. This will cool my wort to 75 in 20min or less. I also don't use any buckets strictly for bottling. Just siphon into your brew pot, then use siphon to bottle.
 
If a march pump and copper chiller and HERMS are on your radar we have serious discrepancies between our notions of a limited budget! Siphoning is very effective, pumps are a nice luxury. An immersion chiller is nice but not mandatory at all (mine is still made of 30' of 3/8 thermo tubing). Buckets are absolutely preferable to carboys, right you are. Stock up on $4 5-gal foodsafe buckets from Lowes, you don't need bigger for bottling or secondary (if you ever secondary) and they are generally invaluable. I now ferment in them almost exclusively (9 gallon batches, split between two). Recycle yeast. Buy grain by the sack and all, all hops by the pound.

A big kettle with a $7 SS mesh tube is the best mash tun you will ever have. Insulation concerns are baseless, most heat is lost to headspace, not through the container.
 
IslandLizard said:
If the OP listed his location, Montreal, it would takes the suggesting game to a whole different level.

I don't want to sound snippy, but not revealing your location before being able to post is a major flaw on this board.
Very counter productive, and not the OP's fault, per se.
Click to expand...

Why is that a problem again? Not sure how it takes suggesting to a whole new level? Seriously, what am I missing that seems to really bother you about people posting/not posting their locations....cause until now it's never even been a consideration for me?
 
fearwig said:
If a march pump and copper chiller and HERMS are on your radar we have serious discrepancies between our notions of a limited budget!
Click to expand...

Haha well Maybe I should say it's a mid-level budget but spread across a long period.

fearwig said:
An immersion chiller is nice but not mandatory at all (mine is still made of 30' of 3/8 thermo tubing).
Click to expand...

Now this is interresting. You mean to say it's made from the clear type of tubing? And it holds well under boiling temps ? Because at a quarter/foot, it'S a no brainer until I get the copper.
 
The translucent tubing, not the vinyl. I don't use vinyl on the hot side for food safety reasons (and rarely cold-side). It is flexible when hot (hence thermoplastic) but I bound mine into a coil and attach one end to my kitchen faucet, the other points to the drain. It's not as fast as expensive options but you can walk away for 20min and when you come back you're at pitch temps, so why not? At least half of the concern spent on wort chilling is an engineering/how much can I spend contest, the difference in cold break from chill speed seems beyond minimal at this level.
 
#1 Brewing pots and MT if you want to do that instead of BIAB
#2 Fermenter buckets
#3 Hydrometer and useful utensils
#4 Freezer with temperature control
#5 Bottles, caps and capper
#6 Learn to wash yeast and make starters

Buy grain, hops yeast.
Make beer.

Everything else is great and makes things easier and probably better beer, But you said the word "broke".
 
I am going to suggest something. You have a pot and a burner. I am going to say just do some brews. Your obsession with having the perfect set up is great but you can make good beer with minimal equipment. The best thing to do is to brew some batches and learn good solid brewing practice. You can do a simple BIAB partial mash and learn a lot about brewing. It does not require any more than you have now.

I would concentrate on learning how to brew before going crazy aquiring the best equipment. Aspiring to 10 gallon batches with a HERMS set up is great but there is no need to make that your first brewing experience. There are many things you can do to make good beers that do not need the greatest equipment.

Concentrate on learning the process, learning how to make a proper sized starter, and learning how to control fermentation temps.

You can make good beer with the equipment that you already have.

You will learn more by brewing with minimal equipment than waiting for the latest and greatest. Yeast and temp control should be your mantra.
 
beergolf said:
concentrate on learning the process, learning how to make a proper sized starter, and learning how to control fermentation temps.

You can make good beer with the equipment that you already have.

You will learn more by brewing with minimal equipment than waiting for the latest and greatest. Yeast and temp control should be your mantra.
Click to expand...

+1
 
I would check around the local bakeries or bakery departments in the local supermarkets. Sometimes you can get buckets for free. I got my four 2 gallon buckets for free. Four dollars per 5 gallon bucket isn't much, but if you got 5 free five gallon buckets, you just saved $20 for something else.


Another thing is getting a few cake pans, fill with water, then freeze them instead of buying bags of (cubed) ice. My cousin does this with one of those rope tubs and a sump pump to recirculate the water through the IC when chilling his wort. It works pretty good.
 
Something that will pay for itself would be a your own crusher/mill, they range from 25ish to like 250, I would recommend a cheap Corona style mill for starting and as you progress Mabee spend on a better one. The reason for the mill would be to buy in bulk grains as over all you can save a bit of money.
We all know that for 5gal brew you may use 10th pounds of grain therefore a 10 gal brew will take 20ish pounds of grain. These are rough weights but if you are intent on drinking 10gals to cool off on a hot summer day while in a jacuzzi you may need more grain at a cheaper price
 
one thing not on your list that you'll need is a hydrometer to take gravity readings on your ferment. also start looking for pop-top bottles have friends save them for you or haunt recycling centers, you'll need something to put the beer in.
 
beergolf said:
I am going to suggest something. You have a pot and a burner. I am going to say just do some brews. Your obsession with having the perfect set up is great but you can make good beer with minimal equipment. The best thing to do is to brew some batches and learn good solid brewing practice. You can do a simple BIAB partial mash and learn a lot about brewing. It does not require any more than you have now.

I would concentrate on learning how to brew before going crazy aquiring the best equipment. Aspiring to 10 gallon batches with a HERMS set up is great but there is no need to make that your first brewing experience. There are many things you can do to make good beers that do not need the greatest equipment.

Concentrate on learning the process, learning how to make a proper sized starter, and learning how to control fermentation temps.

You can make good beer with the equipment that you already have.

You will learn more by brewing with minimal equipment than waiting for the latest and greatest. Yeast and temp control should be your mantra.
Click to expand...

I agree with this ^^^ and a hydrometer. Later, get another hydrometer as a spare.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Yesfan said:
Another thing is getting a few cake pans, fill with water, then freeze them instead of buying bags of (cubed) ice. My cousin does this with one of those rope tubs and a sump pump to recirculate the water through the IC when chilling his wort. It works pretty good.
Click to expand...

Ah yeah, jeez, don't ever buy ice for homebrew. I hear about people doing this and I don't say anything but my inner cheapskate is completely freaking out. That's the biggest waste I can imagine, but it's mostly due to poor advice from the "YOU HAVE TO CHILL YOUR WORT AS FAST AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE" people (apologies to those such people here). Your beer will be fine if you cool it overnight in the bathtub. The main reason I don't do that anymore is because it turns brew day into brew weekend.

And if you're buying all these things I assume you have a hydrometer. I only break about one per year and I uh, often brew tipsy, but the people who say "buy two" are not exactly wrong. I'm not sure why there isn't a SS or fiberglass/plastic one on the market, there's no reason this instrument has to be glass any more than autosiphons have to be made of acrylic that can't stand heat (but I digress).
 
I like the idea of bulk grain and a Corona mill. And of course the Hydrometer, it's a given.

Maybe I'm not as broke-ass as I led you to believe, I just want to equip myself slowly. I get why you might feel like BIAB is the single most easy and cost-effective way, but it just doesn't appeal to me. Gut feel type of thing.

The other thing is, I know a couple guys who bottle in twist caps and have had no problems whatsoever. What's the general consensus on pop-top vs twist-caps ?
 
fearwig said:
Ah yeah, jeez, don't ever buy ice for homebrew. I hear about people doing this and I don't say anything but my inner cheapskate is completely freaking out. That's the biggest waste I can imagine, but it's mostly due to poor advice from the "YOU HAVE TO CHILL YOUR WORT AS FAST AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE" people (apologies to those such people here). Your beer will be fine if you cool it overnight in the bathtub. The main reason I don't do that anymore is because it turns brew day into brew weekend.
Click to expand...

There's "fine" and there's ideal. We're all entitled to pursue our brewing ideals right? While I would never say it like you did, and/or in all caps. I do think its GOOD advice to chill and pitch as quickly as possible with the exception being something like whirlpooling or steeping flameout hops, since that procedure can actually utilize the time for something productive.

But in the absence of that, waiting is not ideal. Sure, great beers have been made with the "no-chill" method....but is that the surest way to great beer? Not in my mind.

Anyway. I would recommend not getting to worked up about other people buying ice. I buy mine for cheap and in bulk, and it would probably cost me more to freeze water myself....and I can use it to do lagers and pitch in a minimal amount of time. Which...as I mentioned above...I think is a good thing.

Anyway, that's just me thinking out loud ^ it may or may not be insightful. :mug:
 
I use 32oz and 40oz screw bottles all the time. I re-use the same cap and it fits tight. I also use soda bottles.
 
Jonthewizard said:
I get why you might feel like BIAB is the single most easy and cost-effective way, but it just doesn't appeal to me. Gut feel type of thing.

The other thing is, I know a couple guys who bottle in twist caps and have had no problems whatsoever. What's the general consensus on pop-top vs twist-caps ?
Click to expand...

I would not want to take the chance of loosing beer due to using twist off type bottles. I am not sure I have had a good beer that came in a twist off bottle.

BIAB is well worth trying. There is nothing inferior about using that method.
 
Jonthewizard said:
I like the idea of bulk grain and a Corona mill. And of course the Hydrometer, it's a given.

Maybe I'm not as broke-ass as I led you to believe, I just want to equip myself slowly. I get why you might feel like BIAB is the single most easy and cost-effective way, but it just doesn't appeal to me. Gut feel type of thing.

The other thing is, I know a couple guys who bottle in twist caps and have had no problems whatsoever. What's the general consensus on pop-top vs twist-caps ?
Click to expand...

The general consensus is that pop tops are better. The bottles are free (if you drink em like I do!) and the caps are dirt cheap. A wing capper works great and is pretty inexpensive.

I think you should BIAB though. I don't know why, but I just do.

I've done it all, extract, BIAB, and traditional 3 vessel, batch and fly sparge. My current setup is a 3 vessel (which, you can make a 2 vessel system work if you store your wort in a bucket while you batch sparge and then clean out your kettle), but I miss BIAB a little. It's so efficient, cheap, simple and intuitive.

Cleanup is easier too. ;)

If I had it to do over again, I'd but a 15G kettle and ferm temp control first.
Then I'd advance to BIAB in it (PLENTY of room for even the biggest 5-6G batch you can imagine). Next I'd advance to a 2 kettle system by buying another 15G kettle and using it as a HLT while using the other for a MT/BK combo vessel, then finally buy 3rd vessel and a pump.

After I have all those vessels, I'd pay someone or learn to weld myself and build a stand.

I direct fire my MT btw...it works great and I'm not sure why people get stuck on HERMS or RIMS when basically what I do doesn't require any extra gear (beyond a burner) and it's technically a RIMS (I recirculate the wort through the pump and back into the MT) because when I fire the burner I'm pulling the wort across a heat source.
 
Jonthewizard said:
The other thing is, I know a couple guys who bottle in twist caps and have had no problems whatsoever. What's the general consensus on pop-top vs twist-caps ?
Click to expand...

Neither one. Kegging is the final answer. Why bother with bottles in the first place?

Suck it up, refi your house and do it right, y'know?
 
It's in the plans rest assured. Fall or winter. But for now I'll make due with my twisties. Can't imagine it's bad...
 
BIAB is a really good way to go when first starting, and doing so on the cheap. I would stray away from HERMS and RIMS systems for the time being. Although they are helpful IMO those systems are not necessary.

Look at what is necessary first. It sounds like you already have some equipment on hand and your goals for how you want to brew is fully up to you.

I would recommend doing a few extract batches first. They require very little money up front to get a finished product, and as long as your extract equipment can expand to all grain setup then your are looking in the right direction.

You could be brewing beer for less than 200 bucks to start if you were so inclined. There are many brew supplies which have starter kits that at least get the ball rolling, then look into expansion.

Then there is a list of priorities.
Brewing setup should probably be number one, but HERMS and RIMS systems should not be considered necessary.

Fermentation control! After you have a good brewing setup this should be your next step. A simple STC-1000 temp controller at $20, and a fridge from craigslist will do the job. There are tons of other ways of doing this, but the fridge/temp controller is probably the simplest way.

Thats really it. If you have a brewing setup where you can heat 6.5 to 7 gal of water fairly quickly, and a copper coil to cool fairly quickly plus a MLT. You don't even really need the copper coil, as you can cool the wort in a sink or bathtub in an hour or so. Then your set. Fermentation control is big. These two things will have you making great beer, and could be done for less than $500 bucks. You don't need temp control, but I can assure you if you do a few batches without you will be looking into it soon.

I wouldn't worry about kegging right off the bat. Nor some of the nice things such as pumps and automation. Those things are not necessary for good beer.
 
Puddlethumper said:
Neither one. Kegging is the final answer. Why bother with bottles in the first place?

Suck it up, refi your house and do it right, y'know?
Click to expand...

I think this guy is investing enough for not having started a brew yet! But hey, if he gets in over his head I guess that's more secondhand kegging stuff on the market, why not?
 
Right you are.
The internet is a funny place where people get misunderstood often.

What I aim to do is this :

1- Invest 100$ (approx) on basic equipment and start brewing batches. Simple manual work, heat water, dough-in, refill HLT and heat again, vorlauf, batch sparge, boil, rack, ferment, drink. This is what I'm almost ready to do.

2- Invest a few more dead prime-ministers and use what I have to grow. I just don't want to buy anything that's not going to be part of the bigger picture, which is why I was asking if what I have in mind for the rest of the summer makes sense. I'm thinking bigger brew pot, copper IC and as cheap a pump as I can find.

Luckily, you guys made me realise that before I move on to bigger, I'll need to figure out a way to control my fermentation temps. Probably through a Swamp cooler for now, but used freezers at 40-50 bucks are a common sight on the classifieds here. So I'll make that my first step-up.

I guess I just can't start brewing until a few weeks still and I'm just anxious to start, so I want to talk about it. I researched this a lot and I just want to confirm what I've found. Is it that bad to want to have a clear plan ?
 
Jonthewizard said:
Right you are.
The internet is a funny place where people get misunderstood often.

What I aim to do is this :

1- Invest 100$ (approx) on basic equipment and start brewing batches. Simple manual work, heat water, dough-in, refill HLT and heat again, vorlauf, batch sparge, boil, rack, ferment, drink. This is what I'm almost ready to do.

2- Invest a few more dead prime-ministers and use what I have to grow. I just don't want to buy anything that's not going to be part of the bigger picture, which is why I was asking if what I have in mind for the rest of the summer makes sense. I'm thinking bigger brew pot, copper IC and as cheap a pump as I can find.

Luckily, you guys made me realise that before I move on to bigger, I'll need to figure out a way to control my fermentation temps. Probably through a Swamp cooler for now, but used freezers at 40-50 bucks are a common sight on the classifieds here. So I'll make that my first step-up.

I guess I just can't start brewing until a few weeks still and I'm just anxious to start, so I want to talk about it. I researched this a lot and I just want to confirm what I've found. Is it that bad to want to have a clear plan ?
Click to expand...

The best way to get started VERY cheaply is to join a club, introduce yourself, state your case, and borrow equipment. Believe me, brewers who have been around a while have lots of spare equipment.

For example, in my attic I have a 10g Gott cooler mash tun with ball valve, copper immersion chiller, propane burner, 8g stainless pot with ball valve, 2 spare hydrometers, extra carboys, about 10 cases of german wheat bottles (16oz), caps, capper (I don't bottle anymore), a bottling bucket, bottling tree, vinator, etc.

All that stuff is spare and waiting for a local person to say they want to get started.
 

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