Smash options

[william_shakes_beer]

I'm fixin to do a series of smash brews this winter. I'm planning on attacking the process in 2 phases:

Phase 1 vary malt and use standard hops. I plan to use a predetermined amount of malt (10 LB for a 5 gallon batch)

Phase 2 select standard malt and vary hops.

Phase 1 questions: Would I get the best malt comparison by doing a straight 60 minute hops addition only or also a 15 minute addition for flavor/aroma?

Phase 1 question: Suggestions for the "standard" hops to use?


Phase 2 question: Woud I get the best hops comparison by bittering to a standard IBO or a standard addition of various hops (IE 24 IBU VS 1 oz at 60 minutes?

Phase 2 question: Recommendations for malt to use to compare hops

 

[inhousebrew]

Right now I'm working through some basemalt experiment SMaSH batches. MO, Rarh 2-Row, Munich, Vienna and Golden Promise. I hopped with EKG at 60 and 15 for each and am kind of wishing I hadn't done the 15.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

What quantities of hops were youn using at each addition? .5OZ and .5OZ?

 

[inhousebrew]

for a one gallon I used .25 for each and wound up at 30IBUs I think.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

that's a whole heap of hops. Thanks.

 

[kingwood-kid]

Phase one:If your sole objective is to compare the malts, then I would say probably no late hop addition, so that you can pick out the malt flavors more easily. But using flavor hops might give you a better idea of how everything melds together in the finished product, although this would vary wildly as you change the malt, hop, yeast, mash temp, etc... If you go with just the 60-minute addition, I would lean towards economy and neutrality, so magnum, millenium, nugget, CTZ etc... You didn't ask, but I'll answer it anyway: different malts will give different gravities for the same weight (e.g., MO>2-row>Vienna), so you might want to aim for consistent gravities rather than consistent weights. Easy to dilute out pre-boil as needed.

Phase 2: If you're comparing bittering, than go by IBU, although the alpha-acid numbers are freshness-dependent. If you're comparing flavors from late adds, then I would add consistent weights at flameout and hope any added IBUs will not greatly alter the process. That having been said, certain hops might produce better flavors than others, even if you have to use more of them to get what you want. 1oz of cascade delivers a lot more flavor than 1oz of EKG, but that's not to say that you like cascades more than EKG. If you're comparing flavor hops, I would go side-by-side with varieties that are as similar as you can get, so you can spot the subtleties. Saying that you like cascades more than EKG is about as helpful as saing that you like lasagna better than brownies. Comparing cascades and centennials would be much more useful. Along that line of thought, when you're comparing hops, I would use the malt you're most likely to use with those hops. Or you can use generic 2-row, since it's cheap and will not contribute much in the way of competing flavors.

I'd also go with 1-gallon batches, or you're going to have a lot of pretty boring beer to go through. This might be the sort of thing that blind taste-testing is suited for.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

Malt: grain weight VS SG; Thanks, I was debating that. I'll make the adjustment.

Hops: I have never been a real hop head. I generally do dark ales and stouts, but I'd like to get smarter. I guess I'll select a hop, do a 60 minute addition to a standard IBU and then .25 OZ at 15 minutes to bring the flavor forward. Probably select my "favorite" malt to keep my tongue interested.

Also, I'm thinking Nottingham to keep the yeast contributions clean and neat.

 

[Whattawort]

For Phase 1 I would stick to the noble hops (Hallertauer Mittelfrüh, Tettnanger Tettnang, Spalter Spalt, Saaz) as these are perfect for malt-forward beers. I've found that you get just the right amount of bittering and a great aroma with the 60-15 that won't overshadow the malt characters. Glacier, Fuggles, and Goldings are also good choices.

For Phase 2 I would use the same amount by weight at the same addition times so that you can really get an idea of what the character of the hops are. I'm not a hop head either, so phase 2 would definitely be more of the unknown for me. I do know that I'm not a fan of Citra or Simcoe in a SMaSH though.

 

[Trokair]

I am in the same boat as you William (great name by the way). With the brews that I have done so far I have used 4 or 5 different types of hops but they all just smelled like lemons to me and since the recipies were all different it is hard to pick out the addition that the hops is responsible for. I've been making all darker, more malty beers because I enjoy them but I really wish I had a handle on which tastes/smells a particular hop imparts. I've been using this to make some informed guesses:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hop_varieties

Standard disclaimer of "don't believe everything on wikipedia" but the info seems to be legit for the most part. I'm very interested in any insight you gain from this set of trials. Please keep us updated!

 

[william_shakes_beer]

You all realize that your punishment of answering a question is another question I have obtained a typical malt analysis sheet from one of the maltsters supplied by my LHBW. It is located here : http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_BrewTypicalAnalysis.pdf I assume that "base malt" is defined as anything with a DP Lintner higher than 30. Yes? I plan to get copies from the other manufacturers available to me, just wanted to be sure I am reading correctly (kinda embarrassing after brewing for 2 years that I'm asking a question like this)

 

[kingwood-kid]

30 Lintner is a decent definition. The general rule-of-thumb is to have an overall mash DP over 35. Some of the malts that are closer to that (like Briess' light Munich, DP 40) would probably be fine to use in a SMASH, but wouldn't do so well if you started adding non-diastatic grains. You can compromise a little on the purity of your SMASH by adding very small percentages of 2-row, 6-row or malted wheat on any malt you have conversion concerns about. As an example, Briess dark munich has a DP of 20. Using 10% wheat malt would double your mash DP to a more manageable 40, with negligible changes in flavor and color. Briess is awesome about posting their numbers in easy-to-find places; other maltsters are less helpful, although the numbers are usually out there somewhere.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

yeah. I had to scrounge to get the 3 of the manufacturers represented by my LHBW. I found that if you google "{insert manufacturer's name} typical malt analysis" you get what you need somewhere. I believe they are reluctant to publish specific analysis because batches vary according to the grain crop and growing conditions. I have found sheets for the following: Weyermann, Dingemans(Cargill) and Breiss. BTW, If you like dark malty brews, I have what I consider to be a clone that is better than Guiness. I can post the recipie if you are interested.

 

[daksin]

I think you should do some SMASH pale ales. I don't think late addition hops are going to get in the way of telling the difference between the only malts in the recipe. APAs are easy to drink and work great with tons of different base malts. I'd say the basic APA hop would be cascade. I'd go 1oz at 15, 1oz at flameout, and vary the 60minute addition based on the OG you get from each grain to hit identical IBUs for best comparison.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

30 Lintner is a decent definition. The general rule-of-thumb is to have an overall mash DP over 35. Some of the malts that are closer to that (like Briess' light Munich, DP 40) would probably be fine to use in a SMASH, but wouldn't do so well if you started adding non-diastatic grains. You can compromise a little on the purity of your SMASH by adding very small percentages of 2-row, 6-row or malted wheat on any malt you have conversion concerns about. As an example, Briess dark munich has a DP of 20. Using 10% wheat malt would double your mash DP to a more manageable 40, with negligible changes in flavor and color. Briess is awesome about posting their numbers in easy-to-find places; other maltsters are less helpful, although the numbers are usually out there somewhere.

how are you calculating DP for the entire mash? is it diastic points per pound x pounds of grain for each malt, then sum and divide by gallons?

 

[kingwood-kid]

Divide by the total grain weight, not gallons.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

So the calculation does not consider the possibility of diluting the enzymes by mashing too thin, or is that just another big hairy scary myth designed to frighten new brewers into buying extract?

 

[kingwood-kid]

There's some research indicating that mashing thinner results in better conversion. I don't remember all the reasons behind it. As long as you're close to the 1-1.5 qt/lb range, you'll be fine.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

ok. I usually do BIAB and mash the entire water volume unless I'm doing a 10 gallon boil, which will not fit in my 15 gallon kettle. Never had a problem with effeciency.