Slow starter, no foam...should I not pitch it.

[StumpyJohnson]

So I made my first starter thursday night. About 8 oz's of DME in about 1.85 liters, with wp 810.

3 days later there is no foam on the surface. The vessel is tinted glass so its hard to tell what's going on inside. The airlock is active. A burp once a minute or so...Its been sitting at about 70 degrees since I made it.

My question's are...

Does the starter need more time? I can give it one more day before I need to brew, due to time constraints.

Does high krausen ALWAYS show with a foam? Could the presence of idophor from sanitization inhibit the foam growth?

Would pitching today be detrimental?

 

[Revvy]

There is very little activity with making starters, rarely do they bubble, even more rarely is there a krausen that we see. The only true activity that most of us see is just a creamy band at the bottom when it flocculates out.

Starters are some of the most "un-exciting" fermentations ever.

That one is cold crashed, but even if it is a t room temp, you should see the sediment in the bottom. I use a stirplate, but usually stop it a few hours early to let it settle.

Next time get yourself a clear vessel so you can see inside...but as much as I am not a big fan of airlock as an indication of anything, if you have bubbling that means co2 is being produced.....and that means your starter fermented. So don't sweat it.

 

[StumpyJohnson]

Yeah, the more I look at it I can see that the surface of the liquid is bubbly and active...I think today is the day.

I used an amber dme, and I'm contemplating pitching the whole 2liters rather than settling it out and just pitching slurry. Would you recommend against that? Is there little difference either way or, is pitching just the slurry the only way to go?

Also, cold crashing, flocculates the yeast and allows for a concentrated slurry correct? How long does that take on average? Could there be a chance of cold crashing too soon?

Thanks for the advice BTW, thats what makes this forum such a killer place...

 

[StumpyJohnson]

Well, I pitched it...today was my first all grain batch...my second batch ever.

Learned ALOT! Unfortunately, when I pitched my starter there was quite a bit of slurry left in the bottom of the growler. Must get a clear growler...so maybe things will take a bit longer hopefully I got more cells in there than your average tube. We'll see. The experience all in all was great though.

Got a laundry list of things to tweak for next time.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

There is very little activity with making starters, rarely do they bubble, even more rarely is there a krausen that we see. The only true activity that most of us see is just a creamy band at the bottom when it flocculates out.

I disagree. Most every starter I ever made had quite a bit of krausen. I've even had to resort to blow off tubes. However, a lack of krausen does not indicate a lack of activity.

 

[Revvy]

I disagree. Most every starter I ever made had quite a bit of krausen. I've even had to resort to blow off tubes. However, a lack of krausen does not indicate a lack of activity.

Well, I guess we've had different experiences. I've only ever actually seen one or two krauzens in all the starters I've made.....that may be because I tend to use a stirplate, but even before that seeing them was few and far between....I have at times seen a ring on the glass where one may have been, but even THAT isn't always the case.

 

[s3n8]

I disagree. Most every starter I ever made had quite a bit of krausen. I've even had to resort to blow off tubes. However, a lack of krausen does not indicate a lack of activity.

Curious if you are using a stirplate Yuri? I never see krausen, however I do see bubbles rising up the side of the flask. I usually only use liquid and make starters with Belgian strains. Maybe different strains? Which strains do you see krausen?

 

[joety]

Curious if you are using a stirplate Yuri? I never see krausen

+2, I can tell by a change in clarity of the wort and foam in the vortex that the yeast has worked, but nothing resembling a krausen. I normally make a quart starter and pitch the whole thing straight off the stirplate, but for the first lager I just made with three quarts, I cooled it to the low fifities and decanted most of the beer. Revvy, sounds like you decant all of your starters, are you worried the starter beer will affect the taste?

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I use a stir plate. I've used a lot of English ale strains and a few hefe strains. They get pretty active in my experience.

 

[StumpyJohnson]

What is this stir plate you speak of?

Could I simply sanitize a magnet and drop it in the starter vessel and then use another to stir up the yeast prior to pitching? I was sad to see all the yeast at the bottom of my growler, but worried about contamination trying to get the slurry out....

 

[joety]

What is this stir plate you speak of?

Could I simply sanitize a magnet and drop it in the starter vessel and then use another to stir up the yeast prior to pitching? I was sad to see all the yeast at the bottom of my growler, but worried about contamination trying to get the slurry out....

The stirplate is like a mini-turntable with magnets. You place a teflon coated (i.e., don't use PBW to clean it) ferrous bar in your starter and perch it on top of the stir plate for the duration. It keeps the wort oxygenated (don't use an airlock on your flask; tin foil or a filter is the way to go) and the yeast in suspension so they don't go back into hybernation. Some people remove it a few hours before pitching to let the yeast settle so they can decant the spent wort/beer. In this case, I use what's called a "keeper magnet" to drag the bar across the bottom of the flask and scrape the yeast from the bottom. The keeper magnet's main purpose it to hold the stir bar in place on the bottom of the flask while you pitch the yeast. Otherwise you have to remember to retrieve the bar from the fermenter a week or two later and not pour it down the drain with the trub and yeast cake remains.

 

[StumpyJohnson]

As an update, the batch is going bonkers...there seemed to be little adverse effects due to my ignorance...

 

[Newbeerguy]

As an update, the batch is going bonkers...there seemed to be little adverse effects due to my ignorance...

Sounds good! Keep us updated on how this turns out.

 

[weirdboy]

Count me in the "never seen a krausen on my starter" category.

 

[Newbeerguy]

Count me in the "never seen a krausen on my starter" category.

+1 Me either...I actually tossed a starter because of this once....before I found this site of course

 

[DKershner]

I use a stir plate. I've used a lot of English ale strains and a few hefe strains. They get pretty active in my experience.

+1 to Yuri. I see a krausen when I use my wheat yeasts, not usually in much else though. Pretty sure it depends on the yeast.

 

[gubby]

So I made my first starter thursday night. About 8 oz's of DME in about 1.85 liters, with wp 810.

8 oz. is a lot for a 1.85 L starter. I would have only used 5.6 oz.

 

[StumpyJohnson]

8 oz. is a lot for a 1.85 L starter. I would have only used 5.6 oz.

I use...target gravity in gravity points, in this case 50. Times the volume of my starter in gallons, .5. Divided by 45 for DME. Which equals the needed weight in pounds of DME.

(50*.5)/45=.5555555556 or so lbs...which is actually closer to 8.8 oz...but I used slightly less...

Is this a dumb idea? I read it somewhere, wrote it down. I imagine if I used a stirplate I could make smaller starters use less dme and be a happier camper.

 

[gubby]

I use...target gravity in gravity points, in this case 50.

Ah, I always aim for a 1.040 OG starter, which I'll hit with 3 oz of DME per liter.

 

[joety]

I use...target gravity in gravity points, in this case 50. Times the volume of my starter in gallons, .5. Divided by 45 for DME. Which equals the needed weight in pounds of DME.

(50*.5)/45=.5555555556 or so lbs...which is actually closer to 8.8 oz...but I used slightly less...

Is this a dumb idea? I read it somewhere, wrote it down. I imagine if I used a stirplate I could make smaller starters use less dme and be a happier camper.

Better yet, to save time and money, spend a normal brew day making a batch of starters and pressure canning them. Cost me about 6 bucks in grain and I have 21 quart size starters. When I'm ready to make a starter, I just dunk the yeast, jar, flask, and stir bar in the sanitizer bucket, open both and pour them in my flask, add the stir bar, cover with foil and go. Five minutes top. You'll never not make a starter again.

 

[StumpyJohnson]

Better yet, to save time and money, spend a normal brew day making a batch of starters and pressure canning them. Cost me about 6 bucks in grain and I have 21 quart size starters. When I'm ready to make a starter, I just dunk the yeast, jar, flask, and stir bar in the sanitizer bucket, open both and pour them in my flask, add the stir bar, cover with foil and go. Five minutes top. You'll never not make a starter again.

YES! Since my last post I've changed my philosophy a bit and will be doing this...gonna skip the stirplate skip the aeration of wort, but continuously step up a constantly aerated starter till brewday. Premade starter media will be sweet! Now I'm off to find a pressure cooker.