Simulating watermelon

[ismellweird]

Hi HBT,

My first time brewing a watermelon beer this Wednesday. I hear that watermelon can be tricky to do right. However I brewed a light beer using only mosaic hops and told my buddy it was my watermelon beer just as a joke, but he actually believed me and thought it was great. I'm going to be making a sizeable amount of this beer for a buddy's wedding next month and I think I may use the same technique. If we clearly label the beer as "watermelon" I think people will believe it. Are there any commercial examples of this that back up my claim that this is ok to do? Any "fruity" beers that are labelled fruity but contain no fruit? Or am I the first to try this? Just looking for confirmation that this technique is legitimate/respectable before I try it. It's a big wedding.

mell

 

[bucketnative]

If you were a licensed brewery distributing your product, you would probably be in violation of 27 CFR 7.54 for using a misleading statement - https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...33fdd59a4a&mc=true&node=se27.1.7_154&rgn=div8

However, as a homebrewer... have at it - although I am not a lawyer.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Are you seriously asking HBT if it is "okay" to lie to your friends?

 

[ismellweird]

Are you seriously asking HBT if it is "okay" to lie to your friends?

No, not at all. When someone describes coffee they often use terms like licorice, but that's not saying there's licorice in the coffee. My question is more abstract I guess. If I call it a watermelon wheat, am I really implying that there's physically watermelon in the beer? Does this even matter, if the drinker perceives the flavor as watermelon? This is what I'm wondering.

 

[ismellweird]

If you were a licensed brewery distributing your product, you would probably be in violation of 27 CFR 7.54 for using a misleading statement - https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...33fdd59a4a&mc=true&node=se27.1.7_154&rgn=div8

However, as a homebrewer... have at it - although I am not a lawyer.

I agree, I think this would be the other way around. For example if I fail to mention there's watermelon in the beer and someone gets sick from an allergy, etc? Or I fail to disclose things like peanuts, common allergens? I really don't know. I'm not brewing this with a license, it's just a wedding brew, so nothing legal to worry about here. Interesting page though thanks for sending.

 

[Numsquat]

I personally would have an issue calling any fermented item I've made something that was not actually an ingredient in it. If others pick up flavors that are ingredient specific, that's okay because everyone's palate is different. And yes the power of suggestion can easily steer others. But in the end it's my beer and I'm not going to lie about it.

There are threads here about using juice from watermelons, you can use extract, many other options than relying on suggestion for flavor and being real with others.

Just to give an example about me I brew a pumpkin porter for Oct-Dec drinking (10-20 gal batch(es)). It's more of a pumpkin pie spice addition to my baltic porter recipe but I will throw in a 15oz can of Libby's pumpkin (not the pumpkin pie stuff) into my mash. Technically (and even legally if I owned a brewery) I can call it a pumpkin beer because it actually has pumpkin in it. I have other fermentations that are similar, I may only use a little of an ingredient for the name but to me it is important as people need to know.

As someone who works in the food service industry, this is a big deal. Even if you are suggesting a flavor that might actually be there (for instance my wife is allergic to strawberries but not artificial strawberry flavoring) but it can still cause issues for others which can affect your reputation.

The only good watermelon beer I've had commercially is 21 Amendment's Watermelon Wheat for something to try.

I have brewed for many friends weddings/college graduations/etc over the 25+ years I've brewed and have learned the best way to describe my beers at these events (usually displayed on cards by the taps): ABV%, color description, flavor description, possible allergens. Also give them non-style names (i.e. no porter, pale ale, blonde, etc except for maybe IPA). So maybe your wheat beer is: Smithy Backyard Ale (non-style name): A 5.2% (ABV) golden (color description) wheat (possible allergen) beer that is a little hazy and a little sweet with fruity notes that drinkers have described as "watermelon" like (flavor description without saying watermelon is an ingredient).

Just my opinon though.

 

[ismellweird]

I have brewed for many friends weddings/college graduations/etc over the 25+ years I've brewed and have learned the best way to describe my beers at these events (usually displayed on cards by the taps): ABV%, color description, flavor description, possible allergens. Also give them non-style names (i.e. no porter, pale ale, blonde, etc except for maybe IPA). So maybe your wheat beer is: Smithy Backyard Ale (non-style name): A 5.2% (ABV) golden (color description) wheat (possible allergen) beer that is a little hazy and a little sweet with fruity notes that drinkers have described as "watermelon" like (flavor description without saying watermelon is an ingredient).

I think this is a great way to handle it. However in this case (it’s a long story) my buddy doesn’t know I’m brewing the beer. He actually asked me specifically not to brew it because he didn’t want to put me to work. However we are in contact with the caterer and as a gift to him I am switching brews and using my beer instead of his original concept, which oddly enough was to serve the 21st amendment beer from San Francisco which I agree is the best watermelon beer I’ve tried.

 

[ismellweird]

Thank you all for your feedback! I have a lot of respect for the years of experience you all have on here cumulatively and I am thankful that I am able to tap into it so readily here. HBT is a great resource.

mell

 

[chickypad]

I think this is a great way to handle it. However in this case (it’s a long story) my buddy doesn’t know I’m brewing the beer. He actually asked me specifically not to brew it because he didn’t want to put me to work. However we are in contact with the caterer and as a gift to him I am switching brews and using my beer instead of his original concept, which oddly enough was to serve the 21st amendment beer from San Francisco which I agree is the best watermelon beer I’ve tried.

Are you sure this is a good idea? Just playing devil's advocate here, but if he specifically asked you not to brew for him is there a chance he actually prefers the 21st Amendment beer? Just sayin, I know I put a lot of effort into choosing beer for my wedding and I think I would have been put out if someone pulled a switcheroo without telling me. Does the bride at least know?

If you're going through with it, what is the problem with having the descriptor cards like Numsquat said? I think you should be very clear once you start pouring what the beer is. Your buddy probably mentioned to people what he'll be serving, you don't want your beer being passed off as 21st Amendment.

 

[ismellweird]

Are you sure this is a good idea? Just playing devil's advocate here, but if he specifically asked you not to brew for him is there a chance he actually prefers the 21st Amendment beer? Just sayin, I know I put a lot of effort into choosing beer for my wedding and I think I would have been put out if someone pulled a switcheroo without telling me. Does the bride at least know?

If you're going through with it, what is the problem with having the descriptor cards like Numsquat said? I think you should be very clear once you start pouring what the beer is. Your buddy probably mentioned to people what he'll be serving, you don't want your beer being passed off as 21st Amendment.

Well no, I went to school with the caterer who is coordinating the beer so we're doing this as a surprise. Haven't been married myself but didn't see the harm in creating a better beer for him as a gift and eliminating the invoice. In fact I've managed to get the money refunded directly back to myself and I'll be gifting it back to him. I think when he gets to my card and sees the pile of money he'll be psyched. They're headed right out to their honeymoon and may appreciate the extra cash I've been able to give to him. 21st amendment beer in SF is probably very fresh but not as fresh once it makes it all the way out to us here, so I thought a fresher beer would be a home run.

But I see your viewpoint and will definitely give it some thought. Maybe he's having this beer because he really loves it and it's what he wants to serve his guests, I think that's your point. I'm making quite a bit of this beer tomorrow so I'll be making it either way. But I will need to find another gift last minute if I change plans.

Anyway, as usual I do appreciate you all helping me see different perspectives. Have a great holiday, if you celebrate it.

mell

 

[chickypad]

Yeah I wasn't trying to be a downer, it actually sounds like a really nice thing to do. Wedding planning is a funny thing though, IME otherwise rational people can lose their sh** over seemingly minor issues. I'm one of the least traditional women I know and even I was pretty picky about my wedding. Just throwing it out there. Heaven forbid it's the bride's absolute favorite beer or something, and then you unwittingly step in it. I guess I'm assuming there is a bride, spouse anyway.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Personally, I'd throat punch anyone who intentionally changes wedding plans ESPECIALLY after specifically telling them to not do something.

Unless, of course, it were the spouse to be.

 

[Bryggeri]

That is some thin ice.
Receiving money in exchange for your beer (TTB)
Messing with a bride's wedding... (Bridezilla)
not sure which is scarier

 

[teesherv]

Serving the homebrewed watermelon wheat at the bachelor party sounds like a winning compromise.

 

[passedpawn]

Loads of beers are citrusy, and use that idea in their name, due only to the hop used. So it's not disingenuous to name it after the flavors produced.

I would not claim that it actually contains watermelon. That indeed is lying. Which is bad. To me, anyway.

 

[ismellweird]

I’ve decided to go through with the brew for this wedding. The main problem you’ve identified here is that I can’t legally say watermelon is in the beer, so I will take the other guys advise and put a little in the mash and that should cover me from having committed a crime which I would like to avoid at this wedding. Anyway I will update you and maybe send pictures from the wedding in August of everyone drinking my beer. Maybe I can get the entire place (200 people!) to coordinate a cheers all at once so I can take a picture for you all here who have helped me make this wedding special for him and his bride. One can dream. Well it’s early and I’m a few beers into my brew session. Woke up early, too excited. Should be a fun day. Enjoy your holiday, those that celebrate!

mell

 

[cloudybrewer]

Are you sure this is a good idea? Just playing devil's advocate here, but if he specifically asked you not to brew for him is there a chance he actually prefers the 21st Amendment beer? Just sayin, I know I put a lot of effort into choosing beer for my wedding and I think I would have been put out if someone pulled a switcheroo without telling me. Does the bride at least know?

Your buddy probably mentioned to people what he'll be serving, you don't want your beer being passed off as 21st Amendment.

Wedding planning is a funny thing though, IME otherwise rational people can lose their sh** over seemingly minor issues. I'm one of the least traditional women I know and even I was pretty picky about my wedding. Just throwing it out there. Heaven forbid it's the bride's absolute favorite beer or something, and then you unwittingly step in it.

Personally, I'd throat punch anyone who intentionally changes wedding plans ESPECIALLY after specifically telling them to not do something.

Messing with a bride's wedding... (Bridezilla)

Actually, these are the biggest problems with your plan, speaking as a man who HAS gone through a wedding.

 

[Morrey]

If you want to be "straight up" and use watermelon in your wheat ale, it is actually much easier than many think.

This watermelon juicing and concentrating method was passed on to me by @KeyWestBrewing, and I have used watermelon concentrate successfully ever since.

Freeze 1/2G of watermelon juice (I juice by pressing fresh watermelon chunks into a mesh strainer) in a 1/2G cleaned/sanitized milk jug. Take frozen jug with lid off, turn upside down on a quart Mason jar. Let drip slowly and collect one quart. Take that quart of level one concentrate, refreeze and let drip into a pint Mason jar to collect 16 ounces of level two concentrate.

This 16oz of "real" concentrate will nicely flavor a 5G keg or bottling bucket.

 

[chickypad]

I'm surprised the caterer is agreeing to it. They presumably signed a contract and received payment, in my experience those things are spelled out to the last detail. To break that and then actually refund the money to you sounds pretty sketchy. Unless you guys are all buddies and this is sort of a casual arrangement.

 

[ismellweird]

I'm surprised the caterer is agreeing to it. They presumably signed a contract and received payment, in my experience those things are spelled out to the last detail. To break that and then actually refund the money to you sounds pretty sketchy. Unless you guys are all buddies and this is sort of a casual arrangement.

We are close. He has a job at a cupcake factory and helps get me ingredients for brewing. We generally trade favors like this, so no harm being done.

Well the brew day went well. At this point I’ve been brewing since roughly October and it’s amazing how good I’ve become in such a short time. Really I can’t wait for everyone to try my beer. It will be the star of the show.

 

[chickypad]

We are close. He has a job at a cupcake factory and helps get me ingredients for brewing. We generally trade favors like this, so no harm being done.

Well the brew day went well. At this point I’ve been brewing since roughly October and it’s amazing how good I’ve become in such a short time. Really I can’t wait for everyone to try my beer. It will be the star of the show.

I meant if the groom and the catering guy were close. If not, and they signed a contract that he then reneged on, maybe there is harm done. The more I think about it the more I'm concerned that the groom specifically asked you not to do this. You are not the star of this show, it's the bride and groom's day. But it sounds like you've made up your mind and you know your friend. I hope it goes well for you and the new couple.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Why not have your beer and the 21st amendment beer at the wedding? I’ve had that beer in San Francisco and it is delicious. Then you can surprise your buddy and it doesn’t change his plans. It is unreasonable to think that this will go over well. Even if he ends up playing it off. I wonder if this isn’t some kind of shot at the bride for stealing your buddy? It would be reasonable for a bride to think that even if it isn’t true. I also brew good beer and have been brewing since October ‘15. This time of year in July 2016, I made a Steam Beer inspired by the trip that I had the 21st amendment on. It was very good, but due to “ugly baby syndrome” I would not have known then that it wasn’t better than 21st amendment. Additionally, The grooms beer choice is a much more “regular” beer that will appeal to more guests than a wheat beer. If I were presented with both beers I would drink both and since I prefer all barley beers, probably drink 90% 21st amendment if I were a guest at the wedding. Keep in mind all things being equal I would generally choose a good homebrew over a commercial beer, but in this scenario the 21st amendment would likely be my first choice even if your wheat beer is top notch. Hopefully, the caterer friend has the sense to pull a switcheroo on you and offer both beers. It is important to keep in mind that homebrew is often not valued as highly as commercial brew outside of our homebrewing community. Like my step son there are many people that won’t even try something unfamiliar to them and might even consider your homebrew to be dangerous. Pish posh me if you like, but this isn’t going to be the hit you think it is.

To answer the question, Muscle Milk protein drink states clearly “Contains No Milk”. Whenever I have one it makes me chuckle. Just tag your beer, “Watermelon Wheat, Contains No Watermelon.”

 

[Jayjay1976]

Why not have your beer and the 21st amendment beer at the wedding? I’ve had that beer in San Francisco and it is delicious. Then you can surprise your buddy and it doesn’t change his plans. It is unreasonable to think that this will go over well. Even if he ends up playing it off. I wonder if this isn’t some kind of shot at the bride for stealing your buddy? It would be reasonable for a bride to think that even if it isn’t true. I also brew good beer and have been brewing since October ‘15. This time of year in July 2016, I made a Steam Beer inspired by the trip that I had the 21st amendment on. It was very good, but due to “ugly baby syndrome” I would not have known then that it wasn’t better than 21st amendment. Additionally, The grooms beer choice is a much more “regular” beer that will appeal to more guests than a wheat beer. If I were presented with both beers I would drink both and since I prefer all barley beers, probably drink 90% 21st amendment if I were a guest at the wedding. Keep in mind all things being equal I would generally choose a good homebrew over a commercial beer, but in this scenario the 21st amendment would likely be my first choice even if your wheat beer is top notch. Hopefully, the caterer friend has the sense to pull a switcheroo on you and offer both beers. It is important to keep in mind that homebrew is often not valued as highly as commercial brew outside of our homebrewing community. Like my step son there are many people that won’t even try something unfamiliar to them and might even consider your homebrew to be dangerous. Pish posh me if you like, but this isn’t going to be the hit you think it is.

To answer the question, Muscle Milk protein drink states clearly “Contains No Milk”. Whenever I have one it makes me chuckle. Just tag your beer, “Watermelon Wheat, Contains No Watermelon.”

Deep.
Truth.
Rambling.

 

[Kent88]

 

[ismellweird]

You have to hide all the watermelon beer because if someone tries a real watermelon beer and then your fake beer well you'll be outed as a fake.

Is this true? I have never had a truly fresh 21 amendment watermelon beer. Like right from the can or off the tap in their brewery. Maybe mine is as good or better. Why should I have fear of being outed, what would be coming out? I could try my switcharoo side by side with a fresh 21st and see how they compare but sadly I am too far for it to be fresh.

What does a flight to SF cost these days? Crazy, but I have some time off in a few weeks and could cash in some bitcoin. If my beer tasted better side by side and more authentic as I believe it is, maybe I will get some credit where it is due, and maybe another beer for the lineup when my brewery opens.

Maybe a trip to SF is too impulsive but one can dream.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Is this true? I have never had a truly fresh 21 amendment watermelon beer. Like right from the can or off the tap in their brewery. Maybe mine is as good or better. Why should I have fear of being outed, what would be coming out? I could try my switcharoo side by side with a fresh 21st and see how they compare but sadly I am too far for it to be fresh.

What does a flight to SF cost these days? Crazy, but I have some time off in a few weeks and could cash in some bitcoin. If my beer tasted better side by side and more authentic as I believe it is, maybe I will get some credit where it is due, and maybe another beer for the lineup when my brewery opens.

Maybe a trip to SF is too impulsive but one can dream.

What makes you think yours will turn out better than the original? How many times have you brewed this recipe? To say that the brewmaster at the 21st amendment is expert at brewing his own recipe and flagship beer is a gross understatement.

 

[lump42]

Is this true? I have never had a truly fresh 21 amendment watermelon beer. Like right from the can or off the tap in their brewery. Maybe mine is as good or better. Why should I have fear of being outed, what would be coming out? I could try my switcharoo side by side with a fresh 21st and see how they compare but sadly I am too far for it to be fresh.

What does a flight to SF cost these days? Crazy, but I have some time off in a few weeks and could cash in some bitcoin. If my beer tasted better side by side and more authentic as I believe it is, maybe I will get some credit where it is due, and maybe another beer for the lineup when my brewery opens.

Maybe a trip to SF is too impulsive but one can dream.

It has nothing to do with which beer is better. It comes down to the caterer breaking contract. And more importantly, you are messing with their wedding plans. For the love of God, at least run it by the bride/groom/spouse-to-be before you mess with their plans. Like chickypad, I meticulously chose the beer for specific reasons. Along with every other small detail that you won't notice, it has all been painstakingly planned out over the last few months to years for just this one single day.... I implore you, DON'T F*&# IT UP!!

If you want to make the beer as a present, bottle it and give it to them so they can enjoy after the honeymoon.

 

[ismellweird]

What makes you think yours will turn out better than the original? How many times have you brewed this recipe? To say that the brewmaster at the 21st amendment is expert at brewing his own recipe and flagship beer is a gross understatement.

I definitely don't think I can brew his 21st amendment watermelon beer better than he can. Sorry if I came across that way. But lets say you have oranges all your life and then someone brings you something new, lets say a kumsquat and then suddenly you say "kumsquat is the new orange". You can never make a better orange but maybe this, to you, is orange 2.0. Makes more sense now, right? What I'm guessing is that the groom has probably had 21st amendment and probably likes it, but it's never been fresh. Now I give him my version which by the way doesn't even contain watermelon but uses fresh hops, and now he doesn't even realize what he thought was good. This is hard because what I'm trying to explain is more about taste and psychology.

The more we talk the more I think somethign like this has never been done before. And maybe I need to take this pilgramage to 21st amendment. And I do mean pilgramage as I believe this is an experiment or exploration of a new theory in brewing. But I don't know if my brew can be ready and carbonated by then, but if it can be, maybe I do it. This is how revolujtions get started, with one idea, sometimes people say it's a bad idea, don't do it.

mell

 

[ismellweird]

It has nothing to do with which beer is better. It comes down to the caterer breaking contract. And more importantly, you are messing with their wedding plans. For the love of God, at least run it by the bride/groom/spouse-to-be before you mess with their plans. Like chickypad, I meticulously chose the beer for specific reasons. Along with every other small detail that you won't notice, it has all been painstakingly planned out over the last few months to years for just this one single day.... I implore you, DON'T F*&# IT UP!!

If you want to make the beer as a present, bottle it and give it to them so they can enjoy after the honeymoon.

I 100% understand the advice you are giving but I think you'd need to know him. He's easy going and we always say "Fergus we know you better than you do" and he has always agreed. His wife from the little I know of her, it's the same thing. I know its hard to trust me, since you don't know me, but I make good decisions, and in the last year I've had a great run of good luck, and this isn't impulsive but even the caterer agrees and I told myself if he said it was a bad idea I would skip it. Thank you for the concern though, it helps to sees all sides and different perspectives. I stayed up half the night on Tuesday night worrying as a result of responses on this thread, but then something hit me, and then I said "mell you have to trust yourself". If it all goes wrong, at least I can always say I trusted myself to make the best decision I could at that given time. And then I can never regret, no matter what.

 

[Miraculix]

We have strawberry yogurts without any strawberry, but artificial flavors inside. I don't see any reason why not to call a water melon tasting beer a water melon beer.

On the other hand, if l somebody asks you to brew a beer with water melon, than you better use water melon.

 

[lump42]

I 100% understand the advice you are giving but I think you'd need to know him. He's easy going and we always say "Fergus we know you better than you do" and he has always agreed. His wife from the little I know of her, it's the same thing. I know its hard to trust me, since you don't know me, but I make good decisions, and in the last year I've had a great run of good luck, and this isn't impulsive but even the caterer agrees and I told myself if he said it was a bad idea I would skip it. Thank you for the concern though, it helps to sees all sides and different perspectives. I stayed up half the night on Tuesday night worrying as a result of responses on this thread, but then something hit me, and then I said "mell you have to trust yourself". If it all goes wrong, at least I can always say I trusted myself to make the best decision I could at that given time. And then I can never regret, no matter what.

As others have said before, couples can be irrational when it comes to wedding planning. As you stated, you don't know the bride well only what little she has put forward. Run it by her so you don't put any more unexpected changes on her (unexpected last minute changes equal compounding stress and anger during weddings). Surely she can keep a secret, so if she agrees it will still be a surprise to your friend.

 

[lump42]

deleted content

I'm more concerned about the potential bride and groom. If someone did this to me on top of the other stressed screw ups that come with event planning, I would have beat them senseless.

 

[IslandLizard]

deleted content

Fits perfectly in this forum (DRMM).

 

[FloppyKnockers]

What is this fascination with the freshness of this beer? He talks as if 21st Amendment brews it and siphons it into local San Francisco bars and restaurants for immediate consumption. Like the cans I can get down the street are inferior because it took a day are two to get to the shelves.

 

[TwistedGray]

What's the wedding guest count?

How many beers are you bottling?

How are you labeling?

Who paid for your ingredients?

How much money did the couple pony up for the 21st A. beer they expected?

How much money will the couple get back from you and/or the caterer?

 

[arturo7]

But a watermelon, eat it, throw a few seeds in the mash. Problem solved.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Disclaimer, when I had said that I’ve had Hell or High Watermelon by 21st Amendment, I was actually thinking of Prohibition Ale by Speakeasy, but I have had the the aforementioned beer and found it unremarkable. The Prohibition Ale though was delicious.

 

[Kent88]

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[AkTom]

/\ thanks, I think...

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I had a watermelon Jolly Rancher at work and started laughing. I was not about to catch my coworkers up to speed on the lunacy so I just played it off like I'm going nuts.