Simple Electric Build....From the Pros

[P-J]

P-J, Can you help me understand something?
The Home Depot spa panel is for 50 amps. But doesn't most of these systems stay below drawing 30 amps? Is this OK? If there was a problem, would that be too big of a difference?
Thanks.

In every instance where a Spa Panel is set up, it must have its power feed from the circuit breaker panel. If the power used is from a dryer outlet (240V - 30A) a circuit breaker is already in place for that line. The Spa Panel is then used only for its GFCI capability not for amperage control.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[rico567]

In every instance where a Spa Panel is set up, it must have its power feed from the circuit breaker panel. If the power used is from a dryer outlet (240V - 30A) a circuit breaker is already in place for that line. The Spa Panel is then used only for its GFCI capability not for amperage control.

I hope this makes sense.

To paraphrase, the 30A panel breaker controlling the circuit is "upstream" (closer to the source of the electricity), and will trip first, giving the desired 30A control. The 50 A breaker in the spa panel never trips, because the only point of the spa panel being there in the first place is GFCI. Is this also a correct rendition of the logic of this circuit?

 

[P-J]

To paraphrase, the 30A panel breaker controlling the circuit is "upstream" (closer to the source of the electricity), and will trip first, giving the desired 30A control. The 50 A breaker in the spa panel never trips, because the only point of the spa panel being there in the first place is GFCI. Is this also a correct rendition of the logic of this circuit?

Yes it is correct. The only purpose of the GFCI in this type of wiring layout is to detect ground faults. The function could also be implemented by replacing the panel breaker with a GFCI breaker. The issue then becomes cost of the breaker. (BTW - there are other issues as well that can present additional wiring problems) Generally, a GFCI breaker for the breaker panel will cost 2 to 3 times the cost of the GE Spa Panel.

 

[Cromwell]

Subscribed! Interesting that a few of us are right at this point - thinking of converting to electric but just a little intimidated by some of the awesome setups.

 

[crypt0]

On the topic of all this GFCI/Spa panel business,

I'm planning on doing all new wiring back to my electrical panel from my brew room. I'm assuming I'm ok to get a circuit breaker with a built in GFCI and skip the Spa panel?

 

[thughes]

On the topic of all this GFCI/Spa panel business,

I'm planning on doing all new wiring back to my electrical panel from my brew room. I'm assuming I'm ok to get a circuit breaker with a built in GFCI and skip the Spa panel?

That's what I was going to do until I discovered that a GFCI breaker for my main panel costs over $100.00 but the spa panel is only $50.00.

(hence the main reason why so many are using the spa panel.....)

 

[r8rphan]

Subscribed...

Thanks for this thread.. especially the parts list...

Planning on switching over to electric real soon...
Gonna try an electric single kettle BIAB RIMS type deal...
Then expand to two kettle if I'm not happy with it...

What size threads are required for that element?
How are they typically mounted in the kettle?

 

[P-J]

On the topic of all this GFCI/Spa panel business,

I'm planning on doing all new wiring back to my electrical panel from my brew room. I'm assuming I'm ok to get a circuit breaker with a built in GFCI and skip the Spa panel?

That's what I was going to do until I discovered that a GFCI breaker for my main panel costs over $100.00 but the spa panel is only $50.00.

(hence the main reason why so many are using the spa panel.....)

That is a good point and one I mention a lot. Another is that using the Spa Panel allows you to have your GFCI local within your brew area. If your mains panel is a long distance from your brewery, it's nice to have your GFCI protection local. This way you will never second guess yourself about hitting the E-Stop when things "seem to be going wrong". You just DO it & recovery is not a long walk...

IMHO

P-J

 

[chutracheese]

Now it does. Thank you.
The breaker in the panel controls the 30 amps.
The spa panel is only doing ground fault duty.

In my head I was confusing the two and was thinking that it would take 50 amps to trip the GFCI. So if the setup was only using 30 amps, it wouldn't ever trip.

Thank you for straightening that out P-J.
Also, thank you Rico.

In every instance where a Spa Panel is set up, it must have its power feed from the circuit breaker panel. If the power used is from a dryer outlet (240V - 30A) a circuit breaker is already in place for that line. The Spa Panel is then used only for its GFCI capability not for amperage control.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[r8rphan]

What size fitting do these heating elements use? Are they universally the same size? 1/2" NPT? 3/4" NPT? !"?

How are they typically mounted in the keggle? Are they screwed into a coupling welded to the side (like the dial thermometers)? If so, is the coupling a full length, or half length coupling? IS it welded with the coupling sticking out from the keggle or in?

Thanks, just trying to understand how these things are mounted...

 

[tolonen]

It's a 1-1/4" hole for mounting an element. Kal's site goes over a whole installation pretty extensively. Even supplying part numbers and places to get them. Have to go through about 10 pages of instructions and there are a lot of nice pictures too.

http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements

 

[r8rphan]

It's a 1-1/4" hole for mounting an element. Kal's site goes over a whole installation pretty extensively. Even supplying part numbers and places to get them. Have to go through about 10 pages of instructions and there are a lot of nice pictures too.

http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements

Thanks for that!

 

[BWN]

I know I am bringing up an old thread. Just to get this straight you need a 30amp breaker in your wall panel then the 50 amp GFCI spa panel after that. I have been reading this electrical stuff for days and been having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

 

[wyzazz]

I know I am bringing up an old thread. Just to get this straight you need a 30amp breaker in your wall panel then the 50 amp GFCI spa panel after that. I have been reading this electrical stuff for days and been having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

The spa panel is simply for the GFCI, it's cheaper to grab that $50.00 Home Depot Spa Panel than it is to grab a 30A GFCI Breaker. So the 30A Breaker protects your equipment and wiring, the 50A GFCI Breaker protects YOU.

 

[crypt0]

From my extremely limited understanding, your 30 amp circuit breaker would break from excess current, wheras the 50A GFCI will trip when any current is leaking, regardless of amps being drawn.

The thread isn't that old PS

 

[Spartan1979]

What would happen if there was a 50A breaker in the panel, along with the 50A GFCI in the spa panel? I was thing about running 50A to the spa panel so I could run the exhaust fan off the same circuit or have the capability in the future of running the elements in both the HLT and the BK at the same time.

 

[Lucky_Chicken]

What would happen if there was a 50A breaker in the panel, along with the 50A GFCI in the spa panel? I was thing about running 50A to the spa panel so I could run the exhaust fan off the same circuit or have the capability in the future of running the elements in both the HLT and the BK at the same time.

As long as the wires had enough capacity for that, you should be fine... I would put some fuses or breakers if you want to step down your wire size going to the elements.

 

[Spartan1979]

As long as the wires had enough capacity for that, you should be fine... I would put some fuses or breakers if you want to step down your wire size going to the elements.

I was planning on larger wires from the main panel to the spa panel, but I would also need larger wires from the spa panel to the control panel and then inside it? Or breakers/fuses in the control panel?

It makes sense. If I had a overload, the wires would fry before the breaker ever tripped. Thanks.

 

[Gussymo]

I have a 50 amp GFCI in my main box and have a sub panel box with a regular 30 amp 240v breaker for the burners and a 20 amp 120v breaker for the pumps and fan. If both boxes have 50 amp breakers you need the larger wire all the way to the control box.

 

[wyzazz]

Yep, 50A needs 6gu wire. Hefty stuff!

 

[ezzieyguywuf]

I'm trying to understand how the wires work going in/out of the spa panel. I went and picked one up from home depot and I see some punch-out holes that I suppose I'll be drilling to the right size: do I just get some sort of clamp to clamp the wires to the casing?

Thanks,

ezziey

 

[Begin2Brew]

Yes, you need a conduit clamp that will have a set screw on one end where the conduit goes and the other will be threaded that connects to the box with a nut on the inside.

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[Begin2Brew]

Like this

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[ezzieyguywuf]

The 'set screw' holds the cord? Seems an archane way of holding it in place. Also, where do I go about purchasing one of these conduit clamps: home depot? Are they weather proof?

Thanks.

 

[Begin2Brew]

The 'set screw' holds the cord? Seems an archane way of holding it in place. Also, where do I go about purchasing one of these conduit clamps: home depot? Are they weather proof?

Thanks.

No, do not this to clamp wire, it is used with metal conduit. The fitting goes on the end of the conduit and the set screw tightened. This keeps the fitting attached to the conduit. Then the threaded end is inserted into a knockout in the box and the nut screwed on from the inside of the box. You can get these at any hardware store.

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[mux]

Be careful buying electric components from eBay. You have to check that the are UL listed, don't assume.

 

[Junkster]

You need something like these for cords:
Cable Glands | Cord Grips | Strain Relief Fittings

The big box stores carry a limited selection that should work for your application.

 

[mmonacel]

subscribed

 

[bendiy]

For the power feed: It is critically important that your brewery be protected with a GFCI circuit breaker. Your life can depend on it. It is my opinion that the least expensive way to do this it to purchase a GE Spa Panel from Home Depot. Then if you are powering your brewery from a 3 prong dryer outlet you would make your connection to the Spa Panel like this.

I'm a little confused on using a 3 prong dryer outlet. If you set it up like P-J shows here, can this also be used to run 120V equipment like a pump? The third prong is ground, so you do not have a separate neutral. I've read this setup is only good for 240V elements. To run your pumps, you will have to run a 120V supply line as well.

Can this three prong setup be used for 120V as well as 240V in a panel?

 

[rico567]

I'm a little confused on using a 3 prong dryer outlet. If you set it up like P-J shows here, can this also be used to run 120V equipment like a pump? The third prong is ground, so you do not have a separate neutral. I've read this setup is only good for 240V elements. To run your pumps, you will have to run a 120V supply line as well.

Can this three prong setup be used for 120V as well as 240V in a panel?

Sure, you CAN*, in the sense that it will work. Just take either of the 120V legs & neutral. You should probably run a separate ground wire.

*Notice this does not say you MAY do it. It may violate one or more local electrical codes, one or more sections of the NEC, etc. This is just a disclaimer; my attitude is- meh.