Simple decoction for maltier flavor

[KevinW]

I am imploring all of you awesome HBT'rs who may know more about this.

I have read about pulling a "decoction"(about 1/3rd) from a single infusion mash at around the 60 minute mark. Boiling it for 10-20 minutes then adding it back into the mash as a sort of mashout. Then sparging as usual.

From what I have read this should make for a maltier beer. I have only found a few posts here but if there is a good place to look I would not mind being pointed to it.

For a Kolsch this is what I came up with:

9.5lbs of grain(8lbs pils/1.5 munich) in 153° mash for 60 minutes.
Pull 1.25 gallons and boil for 15 minutes.
Add back to mash which should bring mash temp to ~168°
Sparge after ~10 minute mashout

I am not concerned with the color, just enhancing the malt flavor.

Anybody have any input?

Thanks

 

[yodalegomaster]

I would forget about it. Most of the experts say it doesn't make a difference. Its a throwback designed to deal with non-fully modified malt and the lack of thermometer.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I collect a lot of brewing info and save them as files for my library.

I made a miniposter that I keep in a document protector and pinned to my corkboard over my stove.

It has to do with mashing, water to grain ratios, and temps.

Basically it lists:

Ratio of water to grain 1:1 equals a thick mash
Ratio of water to grain 2:1 equals a thin mash

Higher (mash water ~158F) temp and a thick mash produces a more dextrinous wort and a maltier brew

Lower temp water (~150F) will produce a more fermentable wort (drier).

Above 158F inhibits starch conversion to sugar.

I believe I got this from John Palmer's How To Brew, but I could be wrong.

 

[944play]

Part of the point of a decoction is to fully hydrate and gelatinize endosperm starch so it can be converted after being returned to the main mash. Mashout decoctions are typically thin, and returned to the mash as soon as they reach boiling. When I do a decoction, it's usually from beta to alpha (~140 to ~155ºF), then either infusion or thin decoction mashout.

I agree with yoda. It's pretty much pointless, as well as making a mess and being difficult to duplicate, but it makes me feel more involved and there is the aromatherapy factor which is difficult to quantify.

 

[KevinW]

Thanks for the input everyone.

Now I am sort of lost, again. So it seems like a decoction is not the key to a maltier flavor. I understand the link with higher mash temps but would that not also give me a sweeter beer?
Looking back I posted 8lbs but should have been for a 6 gallon batch:
7lbs of German Pilsner
1.5lbs of Munich
Yeast - WLP029
I mashed at 150° for 60 minutes(checked conversion w/iodine). 90 minute 7+gall boil.
Extract OG was 1.037
OG -1.041
FG - 1.013
I use beersmith and my OG was a couple points low but the other numbers were pretty good(for the style anyway).
Was I too low on the base malt maybe?

 

[wildwest450]

Poop on the naysayers. Give it a try. Here is some GOOD info from someone far more qualified on the subject.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing


.

 

[944play]

I understand the link with higher mash temps but would that not also give me a sweeter beer?

No. The result may be a higher FG due to a more dextrinous wort, but dextrins tend not to taste sweet. Eat a scoop of maltodextrin to see what I mean.

 

[KevinW]

Okay, thanks guys. I am reading on decoction, man that is a little out there for me at this stage of my homebrewing career but keeping it in my favorites.

So if I understand this correctly, a higher FG(around 156/158) will not necessarily leave me with a beer that is sweet like mountain dew?

So a 1:1 mash at about 156° should push the malt flavor but still keep me in the style guidelines(for a Kölsch that is)?

 

[944play]

So a 1:1 mash at about 156° should push the malt flavor but still keep me in the style guidelines(for a Kölsch that is)?

That's not it either. A more dextrinous beer will just have a thicker mouthfeel, a nice sheen to the pour, and possibly stronger foam, but will not have more maltiness. Dextrins add body, and Kölsch is supposed to have a light body, so you'd mash it low and long.

 

[KevinW]

That's not it either. A more dextrinous beer will just have a thicker mouthfeel, a nice sheen to the pour, and possibly stronger foam, but will not have more maltiness. Dextrins add body, and Kölsch is supposed to have a light body, so you'd mash it low and long.

I think I am starting to get it. Sorry, I take a while to absorb things but once they are in, they are there to stay

Thanks for the help so far. I love this place