Shank length?

[Tobor_8thMan]

Hmm... subject sounds kinda criminal. I'm writing about the shank used in a keezer. I've ready read so many conflicting opinions about shank length.

Should I use a shank fitting the keezer collar or a much larger shank? I've read pros and cons on both and I'd like replies from those I trust and actually brew (meaning this forum).

Thanks.

 

[IslandLizard]

Simple: The size that fits!
And all Stainless Steel!

No point to go larger. Especially in a keezer, long, protruding shanks make it more of a pain to swap out kegs.
Also keep an eye on the price. If a 4" shank is half the price of a 6" one and you need to drill a shallow recess to get the nut and fitting on, go with the 4".

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Appreciate the input!

 

[IslandLizard]

Appreciate the input!

A few years ago I bought shanks (actually all my keezer stuff) at RiteBrew.com. By far the best price I could find then. I got 4" SS shanks (4 1/8" to be exact).

If you're building, consider using BevSeal Ultra 235 line with John Guest fittings on both ends. Ritebrew has those too, as does FreshWater Systems (for 10 packs). You'll need MFL QDs to connect to the JG MFL fitting.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

OK. Thanks for the input. I will look into the recommendations.

Yes, I too have discovered RiteBrew has decent prices and offers $5 off orders over $75 and $10 off FedEx orders over $125.

In a related keezer matter. Recommended length of beer (3/16" ID) between the keg and the shaft?

Thanks.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I calculate keezer wood thickness ~ 2". What size shank is recommended?

Thanks.

 

[day_trippr]

4" should work.

For beer line, if using 3/16" solid pvc (eg: the ubiquitous Bevlex 200) use 1 foot per psi of CO2, so assuming 10-11 psi use 10-11 feet of line. If using Bev Seal Ultra 235, make it at least 1.5 feet per psi.

http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

In a related keezer matter. Recommended length of beer (3/16" ID) between the keg and the shaft?

There are tables for that, depending on line diameter (ID), temps, and pressure. Most use around 12' for 3/16" line. The BevSeal Ultra is a tad wider inside, 0.20" ID, and ultra slick (it has a PET liner). I use 18' (per tap) and works great at 12 psi, and since I prefer my beer a little warmer, it's around 44F.

I really recommend that BevSeal Ultra line, it takes on no flavor and is easy to clean (I pump PBW through them).

I calculate keezer wood thickness ~ 2". What size shank is recommended?

A 4" shank will fit just fine, allowing for a little extra wall thickness.
4 1/8" long minus about 3/4" for the faucet coupler and flange in the front minus another 3/4" for the nut and line connector on the back, that leaves 2 5/8" for the wall in between. That little extra space is good in case you want to modify something later.

http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843425.htm

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Thanks for all the help! I raise a glass of homebrew to you.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

For the John Guest connections looks like

For connecting to the keg QD
http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843481.htm

For connecting to the shaft
http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843483.htm

Am I correct?

Thanks.

 

[mongoose33]

Can't add much to what @IslandLizard said, except to add a +1 to the stainless advice.

When I built my keezer I bought chromed shanks and tailpieces. When it recently died and I built a new collar for the new keezer, I disassembled everything. I was not pleased with the corrosion I saw on my shanks and tailpieces. I've bought new shanks (Stainless!) and tailpieces (also Stainless!).

I haven't yet replaced them. Maybe today. I'll take a pic or two showing the difference between corroded and not, and post them.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I believe as I only use stainless. Stainless is more costly than other options, but, handled correctly lasts a lifetime and, in IMO, is just better. Even the John Guest connections bother me, but I've seen other posts where people struggle getting the Bev-Seal Ultra 3/16" tubing on a barb. I'd prefer using the stainless shank tailpiece.

 

[Gameface]

When I built my keezer, many years ago, I had read the advice that longer is better. The idea that the greater mass of the shank was beneficial. I swapped out my short shanks for longer shanks... So for the last several years I've been fighting with kegs because the ones under the shanks can't just be pulled out. It sucks disturbing a keg that is still half full so that I can remove an empty.

I vote for shanks that are just long enough to get the job done. And yeah, stainless all the way.

 

[IslandLizard]

For the John Guest connections looks like

For connecting to the keg QD
http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843481.htm

For connecting to the shaft
http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843483.htm

Am I correct?

Thanks.

Yup!
By putting 90° adapters http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843485.htm on the shank adapters, you can angle the tubing toward the bottom or the side, leaving your kegs easier accessible. They can really help with tubing management. Roll the tubing up in a ~12" diameter coil and zip tie. Store along the side, by the hump, or wherever there's some idle space.

Even the John Guest connections bother me

Why is that? They're made from Acetal, don't corrode and work well. I have not been able to stretch the tubing far enough over a tailpiece to feel secure.
The JG fittings can even be used for gas!

 

[Gameface]

I've been using these flow control compensators for a few years and I really like them.

Saves you from having to use a bunch of extra tubing. They aren't cheap but besides making it so you don't have to buy as much tubing they allow you to restrict flow based on whatever, whenever. For instance, I often adjust them when a keg is starting to get empty and usually causes more foam on the pours.

 

[mongoose33]

Here's why stainless:

Just pulled these from my keezer. Same shanks and tailpieces, two different lighting exposures.

 

[IslandLizard]

Here's why stainless:

Just pulled these from my keezer.

Makes one wonder where all that chrome plating went...

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Looks like I might have to go with the John Guest as I'm not finding 3/16" stainless steel tailpieces for the beer line. Or, I go with 1/4" beer tubing.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I calculate the wall thickness = 3.75". Using the 4" shaft only leaves 3/8". A bit tight. Unable to locate a 5" stainless shaft. Guess I'll go with the 6" stainless shaft.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Found the following at Keg Connection.com. Posting here as I thought others might also find helpful.

Shank Size Explanations

12 1/8" = 11" usable shank space

10 1/8" = 9" usable shank space

8 1/8" = 7" usable shank space

6 1/8" = 5" usable shanks space

5 1/8" = 4" usable shank space

4 1/8" = 3" usable shank space

3 1/8" = 2" usable shank space

2 1/8" = 1" usable shank space

*Usable Shank Space: The amount of shank space that is available after using the front and rear components. If what you are passing through is this amount or less the shank will be too short your application.

 

[mongoose33]

I calculate the wall thickness = 3.75". Using the 4" shaft only leaves 3/8". A bit tight. Unable to locate a 5" stainless shaft. Guess I'll go with the 6" stainless shaft.

Yeah, if that's the collar thickness, it won't work with a 4".

My collar has a 2 3/4" thickness and the 4" shank is just barely long enough. As in if it were 1/8" thicker, I don't think I could get the shank nuts fully on.

What makes your collar thickness so...thick? Is it insulation? If so, you don't want to go through the insulation, as when you crank down the retaining nut, well, there isn't much that's substantial enough to hold it.

Here's how mine looked when I was using insulation. Originally this bothered me, but then I realized: I wanted that shank to be cold. If it's covered by insulation it'll be warmer than I want, and in warming up the beer as it flows through, it'll contribute to foam.

So I just didn't use insulation where the shanks were.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you subtract the space needed for the front stuff AND the space needed for the locking nut (1/4") plus the beer nut/tail piece or John Guest adapter (1/2") that leaves 2 5/8" for the wall in between for a 4 1/8" shank:

4 1/8" long minus about 3/4" for the faucet coupler and flange in the front minus another 3/4" for the nut and line connector on the back, that leaves 2 5/8" for the wall in between.

You could recess the locking nut, but you may need a large hollow socket to tighten/hold it.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

What makes your collar thickness so...thick? Is it insulation? If so, you don't want to go through the insulation, as when you crank down the retaining nut, well, there isn't much that's substantial enough to hold it.

View attachment 593929

I checked again and the keezer wood thickness is ~ 2.25. Using the info from Keg Connection and the 4 1/8" shaft, this only leaves 3/4". Kinda tight. I'll probably go with the 6" shaft.

 

[mongoose33]

I checked again and the keezer wood thickness is ~ 2.25. Using the info from Keg Connection and the 4 1/8" shaft, this only leaves 3/4". Kinda tight. I'll probably go with the 6" shaft.

Not sure what the "kinda tight" comes from. My collar is 2 3/4" thick and the 4" fits. It'll have an extra half inch on yours. It'll be fine, and I'll bet if you stick those 6" shanks out into the collar, you'll regret it every time you're trying to move kegs.

But, everybody gets to make their own choices.

 

[corbmonster]

I went with 4" stainless (intertap) so it would go through and I could retrofit with insulation after I finished putting in the shanks. My collar is 2x8 + 1x10 so a total thickness of 2.25 + thickness of the insulation. 4" seemed like a good idea at the time. IllI get back to you on the results.

 

[Dade0]

There are tables for that, depending on line diameter (ID), temps, and pressure. Most use around 12' for 3/16" line. The BevSeal Ultra is a tad wider inside, 0.20" ID, and ultra slick (it has a PET liner). I use 18' (per tap) and works great at 12 psi, and since I prefer my beer a little warmer, it's around 44F.

I really recommend that BevSeal Ultra line, it takes on no flavor and is easy to clean (I pump PBW through them).

A 4" shank will fit just fine, allowing for a little extra wall thickness.
4 1/8" long minus about 3/4" for the faucet coupler and flange in the front minus another 3/4" for the nut and line connector on the back, that leaves 2 5/8" for the wall in between. That little extra space is good in case you want to modify something later.

http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843425.htm

Thanks for the details. The loss due to hardware is very helpful.

 

[Dade0]

10-12 psi for serving seems high to me. I seem to be able to push with as little a five psi. I have 6' line connected for both liquid and gas. Maybe it is due to me being at a high elevation. Near 5280' ASL. Great topic. I've been working toward getting shanks and a tray. All I need to complete my beer fridge.

 

[IslandLizard]

10-12 psi for serving seems high to me. I seem to be able to push with as little a five psi. I have 6' line connected for both liquid and gas. Maybe it is due to me being at a high elevation. Near 5280' ASL. Great topic. I've been working toward getting shanks and a tray. All I need to complete my beer fridge.

Your altitude does make a (small) difference. It's about 2.6 psi less (12.10 psi) at 5280' than normal atmospheric pressure at sea level (14.7 psi).

The biggest problem with using corny kegs at 5-6 psi is that they may not seal well at those lower pressures. I have several of those that really need 10-12 psi to stay leak free. I once lost almost half a 20# tank on a corny I was dispensing at 6 psi. A tiny leak on the lid seal/o-ring that developed over time. It was not there before but became visible with a spray of Starsan, after the fact.

I would crank it up a bit and get longer beer lines. Length of gas lines is immaterial.

 

[day_trippr]

Dispensing cold beer at 5-6 psi to achieve a decent pour is almost certainly going to result in loss of carbonation over time. The dispensing pressure used should maintain the original carbonation level given the dispensing temperature, and the dispensing system should be tuned to handle that pressure...

Cheers!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Thanks to everyone for their input on this subject. I've ordered everything needed and the parts are arriving. I'll post a photo when finished.

 

[BirdmanBrewingCo]

We actually stopped selling anything except 4-1/8" shanks, because 99% of shanks we sold were that length. We were carrying inventory on other sizes that almost never sold. Now, we occasionally get the special order request, which we happily filled, but they were few and far between. https://www.birdmanbrewing.com/categories/Shanks/

And we second the accuflex bevseal ultra tubing to keep off flavors out, but don't scrimp...just use the JG pushfit fittings. it makes installing so much easier, and cleaner. https://www.birdmanbrewing.com/tubing/

 

[BirdmanBrewingCo]

Here's a video of how easy it is to install.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm going to add a pic just so people looking at this issue know exactly what they can and can't have as thickness for a collar through which they're running a shank.

This is using a 4" shank through a collar that is just a shade over 2 5/8" thick. It's about as thick as you can go, unless you either drill a recessed hole for the shank nut, or use two washers instead of just one inside the tailpiece nut.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Began cutting the wood for the collar on Saturday. Had to recall the correct way to mitre corners. LOL Will glue the outer wood and clamp on Sunday. Also purchased a nice set of Forstner bits for drilling the holes. I didn't know these bits existed. I've always used a wood spade bit and just dealt with the splintering.

Things are progressing...

 

[mongoose33]

Began cutting the wood for the collar on Saturday. Had to recall the correct way to mitre corners. LOL Will glue the outer wood and clamp on Sunday. Also purchased a nice set of Forstner bits for drilling the holes. I didn't know these bits existed. I've always used a wood spade bit and just dealt with the splintering.

Things are progressing...

You're already past this, but for general info, there are spade bits that have a sharp point on the edges (like this), and if you go slow at the outset, you can get past the point where you'll create a lot of splintering. When I do mine, I first drill a pilot hole then drill from both sides.

One thing to remember is there's a plastic flange/ferrule that dresses up the front of the faucet and covers the shank hole. Even if there's a little splintering, it'll be covered up by that piece.

Such as in this pic:

 

[odie]

I went with long shanks cause I was wanting them to protrude the inner linner, but since I build a recessed box around the shanks it's kinda irrelevant...I'm kinda thinking going to short shanks and just stuffing the box area with some loose fill (or not and let the cold fully envelop the shanks)

but what I do notice is that some of my long shanks are completely hollow (holds more beer) and some are solid(not pictured) with only a 3/16 ish hole thru the center length...pros/cons of either?

 

[IslandLizard]

but what I do notice is that some of my long shanks are completely hollow (holds more beer) and some are solid(not pictured) with only a 3/16 ish hole thru the center length...pros/cons of either?

I've never seen hollow shanks, but that's definitely not an advantage, IMO. I'm pretty sure they will cause turbulation and thus foaming. How did you end up with a mix of the 2 kinds?

Mine are 3/16" bore throughout, and only 4 1/8" long.

 

[tll77]

I would expect a difference in line balancing for these shanks. Typically the bore of the shank is matched to the ID of the beer line feeding it, such as the not pictured shanks.
Also, does the washer seal okay under the tailpiece nut?

 

[odie]

I bought faucets with shanks and then as the door assembly progressed I wanted longer shanks to penetrate the inner door panel so that the nipple/nut was on the outside. I was gonna make a small plate from the liner material and make 3 holes, stuff the recessed box with insulation and then slide the plate over the shanks an tape/seal it for a finished interior panel and I could easily remove the lines from the shanks for cleaning as needed...

but I think I'm gonna leave the inner panel open as you see it...

yeah, I don't like the hollow shanks much...i feel that as much beer as possible should remain inside the keg until serving...long lines don't help but I guess a necessary evil for a proper pour? I've never understood the physics behind the beer line length theory. Is it an issue of resistance to flow? longer fluid lines I believe will increase resistance to flow, like electricity, but we are only talking a few feet, not hundreds.

 

[tll77]

Is it an issue of resistance to flow?

yes, and when the narrow line widens to the bore of the shank, resistance will decrease giving a lower total line resistance in the system.

And, I agree with you to leave the panel open, let the cold air envelop the shanks.