Shame in chucking?

[IffyG]

Is there shame in throwing away a drinakable beer that gives you no pleasure?

There is no shame in dumping your beer. I dump quickly and mercilessly as I only have enough space in my kegerator for one 5g and two 3g cornies. If i'm not drinking and my roommate doesn't like it either, out it goes in favor of something else. Life is too short to drink ****ty beer just because you made it.

 

[harrymanback92]

Dumping is fine.

However, the beers I made that are just "meh" I use to cook with. That way I still get something out of it, if I need the bottles, the beer has a date with the drain.

 

[sid_marx]

Thanks for all the replies and the wide range of viewpoints expressed

Chimay Blue, St Bernardus ABT 12, Westmalle Trippel and similar examples are my benchmarks and they're what I measure my own beers against. They are the beers I love to drink and when I have a beer I want be to drinking it because the experience is awesome. There is no room in my life for un-awesome beers!

Here's why I dumped my beers:

Beer 1: Chimay Blue clone attempt

• I didn't notice the dry extract was "hopped", I then went and added 3 times the weight of hop pellets the recipe called for because the cheap scales I used were horribly inaccurate.
• Used dehydrated yeast - Safale WB-06 because I didn't know how to bottle culture and didn't know liquid yeast was available.

Beer #2 Another try using White Labs Chimay strain and LME instead of DME

• Undercarbed
• Overpowering banana flavour
• Weird chalky mouthfeel
• High terminal gravity

Beer #3 Another LME attempt, same yeast

• High terminal gravity
• Very malty, very sweet

Beer #4 Another LME attempt at Chimay

• High terminal gravity
• Thick oily mouthfeel
• Sweet and cloying

Beer #5 Achel Bruin Extra clone attempt - BIAB/LME and bottle cultured yeast

• Tasted like a Belgian stout

Beer #6 Trippel attempt - BIAB/LME, bottle cultured yeast, spices

• Spices (particularly the citrus peel) were overpowering
• High terminal gravity

Beer #7 Pious New World Westvleteren clone attempt with White Labs Westmalle yeast (AG)

• Overshot OG by a huge margin
• Underpitched yeast
• High terminal gravity
• When I couldn't get the gravity down I did some crazy sh*t that I don't have time to explain right now

...this one I haven't dumped, but that's because it was a big batch and opening and emptying corked 'n' caged bottles is hard work.

My biggest problem, with the benefit of hindsight, is that I just couldn't make a strong dry beer with LME. They all finished up way too sweet and heavy. Aging would not have made them more digestible. I tried for Trappist and ended up with flawed Abbey or worse.

Beers I haven't dumped and don't intend to:
#8 Another, more successful, attempt at Pious New World Westvleteren clone (AG)
#9 Belgian Golden Strong Ale (AG)
#10 Pious Traditional Westvleteren clone (AG)
# 11 Belgian Quad split batch using Chimay and Unibroue strains (AG)
# 12 Saison with du Pont strain (AG)

13 - 16 are in various stages of not ready yet, but I have a fairly high level of confidence that they'll be fine.

I've learned a lot making my first 16 batches and have identified flaws and made process improvements at pretty much every step along the way. I still consider myself very much a novice beer maker with a lot to learn.

Thanks for the good ideas for what to do with beer you don't want to drink:

• Water the garden
• Make stew
• Marinate meat
• Spritz the BBQ

Any other ideas?

 

[Pappers_]

Thanks for the good ideas for what to do with beer you don't want to drink:

• Water the garden
• Make stew
• Marinate meat
• Spritz the BBQ

Any other ideas?

Give to your enemies. Wait, doesn't everyone have an enemies list?

 

[jmh286]

Shame...not technically....but I think you're just being impatient. 16 batches in 7 months hardly gives time for the beer to ferment and age properly. Calm down and stop expecting the beer to be awesome 2 seconds after brewing it. I am glad I couldn't brew more than two beers a month when I first started, because it made me HAVE to wait for it to finish because I couldn't afford to buy beer. Beer isn't good after a week, even commercial brewers know this. :fro:

 

[Tizzomes]

There's no problem with dumping! I mean it's not like your flushing someones ashes down the toilet. As long as your enjoying the process ( which takes a long time) then live and learn. Nothing worse then trying to relax with a crappy brew. Cheers!

 

[Leadgolem]

Use it as slug/snail killer.

Slugs are attracted to beer. Set a small amount of beer in a shallow wide jar buried in the soil up to its neck. Slugs will crawl in and drown. Take the jar lid and prop it up with a small stick so rain won't dilute the beer. Leave space for slugs to enter the trap.

Also, no shame. Though I always find it interesting to keep a couple of bottles of even a horrendous brew, just to see if it does anything with time.

 

[Ogri]

Chimay Blue, St Bernardus ABT 12, Westmalle Trippel and similar examples are my benchmarks and they're what I measure my own beers against. They are the beers I love to drink and when I have a beer I want be to drinking it because the experience is awesome. There is no room in my life for un-awesome beers!

Here's why I dumped my beers:...........................................

I suppose it's understandable now. Quite a high goal to set for your first few brewing achievements. Probably well on your way to being able to open your own brewpub down there with that resume:rockin:

 

[sudbuster]

Thanks for all the replies and the wide range of viewpoints expressed

Chimay Blue, St Bernardus ABT 12, Westmalle Trippel and similar examples are my benchmarks and they're what I measure my own beers against. They are the beers I love to drink and when I have a beer I want be to drinking it because the experience is awesome. There is no room in my life for un-awesome beers!

Here's why I dumped my beers:..............
Any other ideas?

Well, sid, you are a brewer after my own heart, as they said once long ago. You have the taste you are after and are practicing and perfecting your brewing skills to achieve your goals. Any failed experiment is just that and no more. Your sights are high, which is good. Best of luck to you in your quest for beer of the utmost quality. I'll be looking for your name in the winners for future contests........

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

If you dump a bad beer, and there is no other homebrewer around to see it, did you really dump it at all?

I would suggest that you keep it untill you need the bottles/keg? If it still isn't good and you need to buy bottles for a new batch, ditch it. Just make sure no one else is watching!!!

That's exactly what I did with a batch I had that just didnt turn out. I stored em away seeing if they'd get any better and one day I knew I needed bottles. So I tried one, it hadn't got any better after 6 months, so I dumped it and used the bottles for a much better beer.

 

[Demus]

Thanks for all the replies and the wide range of viewpoints expressed



Beer 1: Chimay Blue clone attempt

Beer #2 Another try using White Labs Chimay strain and LME instead of DME

Beer #3 Another LME attempt, same yeast

Beer #4 Another LME attempt at Chimay

Beer #5 Achel Bruin Extra clone attempt - BIAB/LME and bottle cultured yeast

Beer #6 Trippel attempt - BIAB/LME, bottle cultured yeast, spices

Beer #7 Pious New World Westvleteren clone attempt with White Labs Westmalle yeast (AG)

...this one I haven't dumped, but that's because it was a big batch and opening and emptying corked 'n' caged bottles is hard work.

My biggest problem, with the benefit of hindsight, is that I just couldn't make a strong dry beer with LME. They all finished up way too sweet and heavy. Aging would not have made them more digestible. I tried for Trappist and ended up with flawed Abbey or worse.


I've learned a lot making my first 16 batches and have identified flaws and made process improvements at pretty much every step along the way. I still consider myself very much a novice beer maker with a lot to learn.


Any other ideas?

Sid, a few things occurred to me as I read your list. First, you picked some pretty ambitious beers to "cut your teeth" on. You really jump in head first! Are there any more basic styles that you enjoy? You can learn a lot more about brewing when you brew simpler styles because it's easier to pinpoint how each ingredient influences the flavor, not to mention your chances for success go up dramatically.
Most of your issues are fermentation related with under attenuation being your main complaint (too sweet). The recipe can help with added simple sugars but your biggest friend with any beer is the yeast. Make them happy, especially Belgian strains, and they'll easily attenuate well into the 80% + range. I've have saison strains hit 90% attenuation! Complex, spicy clove notes and nice and dry. The key is pitch rate, proper nutrition, and temperature control. The most important nutrient is oxygen, so your aeration technique plays a huge factor in the final gravity and performance of the yeast. When you can make a simple style with confidence, go back to your advanced Belgian styles and I bet you'll be a lot happier with your results...

PS- If you like hefeweizen they are pretty easy. I do a "lazy man" hef in the summer with nothing but wheat extract, some noble hops and a good Bavarian wheat strain. Turns out great and my friends who know I'm an all grain brewer can't tell the difference!!

 

[progmac]

i have twice dumped half a beer at bottling. i knew it was never going to be good, but could maybe be drinkable eventually. so i saved half the batch in each case to mellow and drink when supplies got low.

it takes some time to learn which flavors mellow and which don't.

i have also dumped a full 5 gallon carboy once.

 

[nickmv]

Hey nickmv, I want my growler back.

You can pry it from my cold, hoppy hands.

 

[nickmv]

Thanks for the good ideas for what to do with beer you don't want to drink:

• Water the garden
• Make stew
• Marinate meat
• Spritz the BBQ

Any other ideas?

Yeah use it for food. It'll easily come in handy. For my chili I make from scratch, I refuse to add water, and only add stouts for liquid.


Also, as the guy above mentioned, I think a lot of your problems with dumping batches is that you're trying to make high-ABV Belgians, etc. For a newcomer to brewing, that's usually a suicide move, and will end their interest. Luckily, it seems to only have spurred you on.

If you like low ABV styles, you really need to try to brew some. I didnt get into high ABV stuff til my 6th or 7th beer, and even then, it wasn't great because I didn't understand just how important temp control was.

My advice: try to cool it with the crazy Belgians for a while, and get to the basics, brew some wheats, maybe some pales, etc, and learn how to perfect the easy stuff. It'll make life with high gravity so much easier.

 

[Piratwolf]

Beer isn't good after a week, even commercial brewers know this. :fro:

This is the mentality that Yuri and others were trying to combat at the start of this thread, and with which I strongly disagree as well. I'm not coming at you personally. It's just that this is one of those old homebrewing wives' tales that simply isn't true.

A beer made with a solid recipe, process, and fermentation control actually tastes delicious in the hydrometer sample. For my New Year's Eve party, I served a Rye Mild that was 9 days old--delicious!

All that being said, it can certainly be true that highly complex beers may taste BETTER after aging. I made an experimental Tart Cherry Farmhouse Braggot that was discordantat the start but has mellowed over six months into something that looks like it will be amazing. But if they taste terrible from the start, aging is unlikely to do more than take the edge off.

Again, nothing personal here. I'm just against the "all beer must be 1-3 months before you even think about drinking it" mantra that persists in the face of empirical evidence.

 

[nickmv]

A lot of the reason a brew can be ready in 7 days at a commercial place is the massive amount of filtration and cleaning processes they have for the beer, not to mention that when it's produced in mass quantities, beer fermentation tends to go much quicker.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Ever heard the saying cook with wine you'd drink? I think its the same when using beer as an ingredient in my food. If its not good enough to drink then the flavor isn't going to be good for cooking with either. Would you use chicken broth that tasted gross to make chicken soup?

 

[nickmv]

Exactly. After a week, nothing's going to change the overall flavor of the beer.

At best, it's going to slowly blend and mellow out, which will enrich/enhance the flavor, but the idea that aging a beer will transform it from something that sucked to something great is usually very rare.

 

[AnOldUR]

Ever heard the saying cook with wine you'd drink?

This and also how much beer can you use for cooking?

I've been kegging for over four years. I have a batch of bottles of an IPA from before that. Tasty beer, but for some reason it never carbed. Didn't really matter. I had other beer and moved on. We've been using it for cooking when needed all this time and there's still a few bottles left.

 

[IffyG]

A beer made with a solid recipe, process, and fermentation control actually tastes delicious in the hydrometer sample. For my New Year's Eve party, I served a Rye Mild that was 9 days old--delicious!

...

Again, nothing personal here. I'm just against the "all beer must be 1-3 months before you even think about drinking it" mantra that persists in the face of empirical evidence.

I agree with this viewpoint. If your beer (speaking of standard gravity beers) needs some age on it to be palatable, you have done something wrong. I'm drinking my my pale ales within 10-14 days of brewing 95% of the time.

The only exception I've noticed is for beer with darker grains as a large portion of the grain bill or high gravity beer. Those usually need to sit in the keg for a week or two of cold conditioning before they taste great to me. I should also add the caveat that sours DO need the extra aging to develop.

 

[Piratwolf]

The only exception I've noticed is for beer with darker grains as a large portion of the grain bill or high gravity beer. Those usually need to sit in the keg for a week or two of cold conditioning before they taste great to me. I should also add the caveat that sours DO need the extra aging to develop.

Good points. To me, the dark grain beer is a bit like chili--it can be good when really fresh, but letting those strong flavors meld a bit makes it awesome. :rockin:

As for the sours, you are so right. I'm really excited to get started on a solera project this summer!

 

[nickmv]

This and also how much beer can you use for cooking?

I've been kegging for over four years. I have a batch of bottles of an IPA from before that. Tasty beer, but for some reason it never carbed. Didn't really matter. I had other beer and moved on. We've been using it for cooking when needed all this time and there's still a few bottles left.

Oh don't get me wrong, I dont use beer all the time in cooking. I actually want to use it more. The chili is one of the only things I make with beer. And I've used stouts before that I made that weren't great.

The chili turned out great! Remember, it's all based upon what you're cooking. With something like chili, the taste of the underlying liquid in the recipe is easily overpowered by the massive amounts of pepper, chili powder, salt, sugar, meat, veggies, bell peppers.....the whole shebang.

 

[Clonefan94]

Thanks for all the replies and the wide range of viewpoints expressed

Chimay Blue, St Bernardus ABT 12, Westmalle Trippel and similar examples are my benchmarks and they're what I measure my own beers against. They are the beers I love to drink and when I have a beer I want be to drinking it because the experience is awesome. There is no room in my life for un-awesome beers!

Here's why I dumped my beers...

Makes sense then. Your dive into brewing was in a lot deeper water than my own. I started with extract kits, only one that was bad was my first one and that was due to lack of water filtration and not realizing that 68 degree ambient temperature doesn't mean 68 degree fermentation. Then I stuck with kits for a few more, then moved to extract recipes and now to all grain. The most complex thing I've put together so far, was a porter AG recipe.

So yeah, I could see since you are learning on a higher curve than myself. I also probably don't have the high standards you have. Granted, there are beers I won't drink, others I drink because I want to be a good guest, but for the most part, most of my beer experiences, outside of BMC are a pretty awesome experience. Heck, even my beer that was flat out bad, I still drank enough of it to really track down what I did wrong. Maybe each sip wasn't that delightful, but I did have an awesome experience in the end, knowing what I did wrong and how to correct it.

 

[Yooper]

I agree with this viewpoint. If your beer (speaking of standard gravity beers) needs some age on it to be palatable, you have done something wrong. I'm drinking my my pale ales within 10-14 days of brewing 95% of the time.

The only exception I've noticed is for beer with darker grains as a large portion of the grain bill or high gravity beer. Those usually need to sit in the keg for a week or two of cold conditioning before they taste great to me. I should also add the caveat that sours DO need the extra aging to develop.

This is actually what I've been trying to say for ages (get it?! ages? Never mind!).

A well made "regular" ale is really ready to package by about day 7 and aging it on the yeast may not harm it- but it does not necessarily help either. Some people prefer the character imparted by the yeast, but I'm not one of them. That's why I don't subscribe to the "month in primary" mantra. Once it's been finished for a couple of days and is clear, it's ready to package.

Bigger beers (higher ABV), and complex flavors do take a bit longer to meld and mellow.

But I think it would be a very rare case for something that tastes bad out of the fermenter to be a wonderful beer. It may improve a bit, depending on the flaws, but aging doesn't fix a really bad beer. Those are dumpers for me.

 

[turvis]

I give my bad beer to people I know that will drink anything and the rest pour out.

 

[xjmox14x]

I just think it's exceedingly simple. It's your money, your ingredients, and your beer. If you don't like the taste, then dump it and brew a new one. I don't brew to choke down mediocre beer that I don't want to drink, just because it'll go to waste if I don't. That doesn't make any sense. Nor is waiting in the hopes that it may improve. I've heard of a few stories on here (note: a few) that told of a bad tasting beer that ended up spectacular by accident with age. Sure, some MAY improve, but most likely not by orders of magnitude. If I'm dumping a beer it's because it sucked, not because it's drinkable but not perfect.

Should make a meme: "Yea, I dump my beer. You mad?"

 

[progmac]

Oh don't get me wrong, I dont use beer all the time in cooking. I actually want to use it more. The chili is one of the only things I make with beer. And I've used stouts before that I made that weren't great.

The chili turned out great! Remember, it's all based upon what you're cooking. With something like chili, the taste of the underlying liquid in the recipe is easily overpowered by the massive amounts of pepper, chili powder, salt, sugar, meat, veggies, bell peppers.....the whole shebang.

one beer + one pack raw bratwurst + one can sauerkraut + 25 minutes on the stove = mmm

 

[danielbt]

Ever heard the saying cook with wine you'd drink?

Yes, and it's wrong. Wine is used to add acidity and to pull out alcohol-soluble flavors. Cooking with wine destroys any of the delicate subtleties present in a good wine. Those volatile compounds boil off quickly and leave you with the most basic flavors. Cooking with good wine is a waste of good wine.

Why would beer be any different?

Of course, it generally depends on the flaw. I wouldn't use infected beer, as acetic and lactic acid aren't going to boil off quickly. Ridiculously over-hopped beers would probably make a dish unpleasant too.

 

[Shooter]

Yes, and it's wrong. Wine is used to add acidity and to pull out alcohol-soluble flavors. Cooking with wine destroys any of the delicate subtleties present in a good wine. Those volatile compounds boil off quickly and leave you with the most basic flavors. Cooking with good wine is a waste of good wine.

Why would beer be any different?

Of course, it generally depends on the flaw. I wouldn't use infected beer, as acetic and lactic acid aren't going to boil off quickly. Ridiculously over-hopped beers would probably make a dish unpleasant too.

I think you're muddling the quote. It's cook with wine you'd drink. I agree, there's not a big point in buying anything fancy as you will lose a lot of the subtle aspects of a nice wine. I can drink Charles Shaw and I wouldn't pay much more than that for a wine I'm basically buying as an ingredient.

With a bad beer it would be a question of what makes it bad. Cloyingly sweet? I can think of uses for that. Overly bitter? Might be a little harder to deal with that one.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I think you're muddling the quote. It's cook with wine you'd drink. I agree, there's not a big point in buying anything fancy as you will lose a lot of the subtle aspects of a nice wine. I can drink Charles Shaw and I wouldn't pay much more than that for a wine I'm basically buying as an ingredient.

With a bad beer it would be a question of what makes it bad. Cloyingly sweet? I can think of uses for that. Overly bitter? Might be a little harder to deal with that one.

You got what I was getting at. If its a workable taste as an ingredient by all means try to use it. But if something tastes bad why would you want that flavor in your food.