Settling between batch sparges -- how long do YOU wait?

[greenbirds]

I've seen people recommend anywhere from 0 minutes (stir, vorlauf, and drain) to 15 or 20 minutes (stir, wait 15-20 min, vorlauf, drain) for the grain bed to settle between each batch sparge.

Brewed a porter yesterday and had my first stuck sparge in about 15 AG brews, it was miserable, and the only thing I can think of that I did differently was not waiting more than a minute or so between stirring up the first sparge and draining it.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

After I drain the mash, I give the first sparge about 5-10 minutes. The second and subsequent sparges (if it works out that I need more than two), I pretty much just drain right away.

 

[Evan!]

Not waiting long enough shouldn't have any effect on whether your sparge gets stuck. It just means more recirculating, IME.

I suggest using rice hulls in your mash to avoid stuck sparges.

 

[Pangea]

I start vorlaufing right away. I add my sparge water relatively slowly until I have the grains mostly covered, I DONT STIR, then start vorlaufing immediately. Once the sweet wort is free of grain bits and other particulate, I move it to the kettle. Usually only takes about 60 seconds or so of vorlaufing.

I've never had a stuck sparge using normal malted grains, without rice hulls.

My efficiency is always greater than 80%.

I try not to disturb the grain bed during batch sparging. I see it as only rinsing the bed, not extracting more from the grains.

 

[david_42]

I pour in the sparge water, stir to maximize sugar washing, and drain. The bazooka blocks the big stuff and I have a very fine sieve that catches almost everything else.

 

[greenbirds]

I might try the no-stir technique next time around. Doing some more probing into the subject, people are split on that topic.

To those who stir: do you disturb the grain bed and let a new one form? Or just stir the upper part of the mash?

I would use rice hulls -- they cost next to nothing -- but I use a Barley Crusher, which gives a great crush and leaves all the husks intact. Thus I figured my problem lied with my technique...

 

[Yooper]

I pour in the sparge water, stir to maximize sugar washing, and drain. The bazooka blocks the big stuff and I have a very fine sieve that catches almost everything else.

That's what I do, but I have a false bottom.

I don't understand the no-stir thing. I mean, for continuous (fly) sparging, sure, you don't want to stir, since you're "rinsing" the grainbed slowly. But for batch sparging, you need to stir up the grainbed so that the process works. What I mean is that the sugars will flow to the lower gravity water you've added, so you stir it up and then drain. It doesn't need to settle, so you can just vorlauf and drain.

I am NO chemistry whiz, but my understanding is that it's through diffusion that the sugars go into the liquor since it's a lower gravity, and so no settling time is required.

I've heard of some batch spargers that don't stir- kind of a hybrid fly sparge, but I'm not sure of the method or the thought process behind that.

Denny Conn is our resident batch-sparge expert. Maybe check his webpages for a better explanation of batch sparging. Or, maybe he'll chime in here to help us out!

 

[Bobby_M]

Not stirring a batch sparge is a guaranteed efficiency hit. If your crush is really coarse, you might benefit from a 5 minute rest to let sugar leach out. If you have a good crush, the diffusion is somewhat instantaneous. I voted 5 minutes because I stir for about 3 minutes and by the time I start vorlauf, it's about 5 minutes. I don't deliberately wait.

 

[masonsjax]

If a clothes washing machine's rinse cycle consisted of simply filling with water, and draining, you'd end up with soapy clothes. It agitates the clothes between fill and drain. For the same reason, I stir my grains as thoroughly as possible.

 

[Beerbeque]

I see it the way masonsjax does. Stir and drain immediately. I see no point in a vorlauf when using a braid.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I see it the way masonsjax does. Stir and drain immediately. I see no point in a vorlauf when using a braid.

You would still want a vorlauff. It's to collect husks and keep them out of your kettle.

I stir then wait 10 minutes I guess just cause thats what I learned first. Next brew I will just thoroughly stir, vorlauff and drain.

 

[Bobby_M]

If you catch the first quart after the sparge infusion/stir, you'll see probably a tablespoon's worth of husk. Whether it matters or not is questionable.

 

[BrewBrain]

If you catch the first quart after the sparge infusion/stir, you'll see probably a tablespoon's worth of husk. Whether it matters or not is questionable.

I've always wondered about this. I get small bits through my braid for about the first quart. It just doesn't seem there is enough husk material in what I collect to make any difference. Eh, I guess catching a quart is no big deal anyway.

 

[bob1852]

If you catch the first quart after the sparge infusion/stir, you'll see probably a tablespoon's worth of husk. Whether it matters or not is questionable.

I've always wondered about this. I get small bits through my braid for about the first quart. It just doesn't seem there is enough husk material in what I collect to make any difference. Eh, I guess catching a quart is no big deal anyway.

I totally forgot to vorlauf during my last brew (SS braid) - I'm bottling tomorrow and will see if there's any noticeable difference and clarity...

 

[krc333]

What’s the point of Vorlaufing? I didn’t do it on my first AG this weekend.

 

[masonsjax]

What’s the point of Vorlaufing?

My guess is to avoid any possible astringency from boiled grain/husk bits that make it into the kettle. With a braid it looks like a negligible amount, so maybe the practice is more important for other methods of sparge/drain(?)

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

I see it the way masonsjax does. Stir and drain immediately. I see no point in a vorlauf when using a braid.

It does clear the runoff. I do it once or twice, into a 2 quart pan. The first run has bits in it, the second does not. Also, I think it helps with the mixing.

I use a SS braid.

 

[pnj]

I'm no expert, but I use a paint strainer wrapped around my plastic tubing in the mash tun. I have vorlaufed both times I've used this technique but I don't think it's needed because of the paint strainer.

 

[Seanwallner]

Do you think a long sparge say 15-20 min would contribute to any astingency. I have used this time period in every AG ive done( 10-12) and get a real astringency on half of them. Im trouble shooting this and reviewing all my processes. Seems to only be the ones with roasted malt. recently a dunkelweise

 

[Zixxer10R]

Do you think a long sparge say 15-20 min would contribute to any astingency. I have used this time period in every AG ive done( 10-12) and get a real astringency on half of them. Im trouble shooting this and reviewing all my processes. Seems to only be the ones with roasted malt. recently a dunkelweise

You could possibly just be using too much roasted malt. Roasted and Chocolate if used in too great a quantity can mimic that same taste.

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

I think you should stir and wait 5-10 minutes. The way that the sugars get into the sparge water is through diffusion, which is not an instantaneous process. It seems to me that a few minutes should improve your efficiency.

BTW: settling time should not affect whether you get a stuck sparge, that has more to do with crush size and protein level

 

[tom_hampton]

I usually wait 15 (which is what I voted), but this last batch I only waited 10. Eff into the kettle was off a tad (down 5 points to 79 from 84 typ), but its been a while and I could have just been out of practice.

My setup is a 5 gallon round cooler, with SS domed false bottom.

I might try the no-rest option next time I do a similar gravity beer. If eff. doesn't change much, the shorter sparge would be "a good thing."

 

[Seanwallner]

You could possibly just be using too much roasted malt. Roasted and Chocolate if used in too great a quantity can mimic that same taste.

It's funny you say that because both batches I used caraffa 3. .5 lb in the first and .2 lb in the second. Maybe this is a malt to be used very sparingly

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

It's funny you say that because both batches I used caraffa 3. .5 lb in the first and .2 lb in the second. Maybe this is a malt to be used very sparingly

I think 1/2 lb of Carafa 3 would be a lot.

 

[ipso]

An assumption I have when reading this thread is that the people above rip the wort pull full-throttle (1st vorlaufe, 1st pull, 2nd vorlaufe, 2nd pull, etc.)

If people are doing a very slow pull, like when fly-sparging, taking a full hour for the pull, then effectively they are allowing plenty of time for the sugar to defuse into the liquid of a batch sparge, even though they’ve stated they start the process immediately.