Session Saison

[Jtk78]

EDIT - Updated recipe brewed on page 2

My wife has asked me to brew her a low carb beer, but wants something with some flavor. My initial thought was a saison due to the yeast typically finishing pretty low, and still giving some character.

Here's my plan;
83% Belgian pilsner malt
17% wheat malt
To an OG of 1.030

0.5oz East Kent Golding 60min (12 IBU)
1.0oz Styrian Golding 10min (4 IBU)
0.5oz East Kent Golding 10 min (4 IBU)

Pitch Wyeast 3711.

If I do my calcs correct, it should get me a 3.5 - 4% beer with about 95 cals and 4 carbs.

Any thoughts on how this might come out? Look like a decent plan?

 

[desabat]

English Ales also have flavor at 3.5-4 % ABV. Use only base malts

 

[Jtk78]

English Ales also have flavor at 3.5-4 % ABV. Use only base malts

I thought about going with an English Ale, but thought the Saison yeast would finish lower, producing less calories and carbs for her.

 

[Electrake]

Traditionally saisons were of a lower ABV than you usually find them in the states. Food for thought!

 

[Gravity]

That my friend will turn out great!

Think about doing 1oz of ekg at 60min and .5 of SG at the 10min mark, along with the other addition of ekg, that's just me though

 

[Lefou]

I'm prepping an all grain Belgian for this weekend. Mixing up some Pilsner, red wheat, and a dash of Victory for color and body done up with Trappist yeast. The plan is keeping ABV sub-4%.
Got my paws on a Yards Brewing saison done with Styrian Goldings. Their brew was just over 6% ABV (not truly an accurate example, but close) with a strong aroma of fruit and I liked it. If this batch goes well I'll do more. Nothing wrong with a tasty lighter ale with a reduced alcohol level because it's a great companion food beverage.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I thought about going with an English Ale, but thought the Saison yeast would finish lower, producing less calories and carbs for her.

Lower FG would mean higher alcohol. Alcohol is the primary source of calories in beer. So while your carbs might be lower, you'd probably be making a trade off with the calories.

 

[Weezy]

To give it a little more oomph for such a small beer, you could consider some aromatic and melanoidin. And perhaps some maltodex.

I'm personally a big fan of 20% oats in saisons.

Also, under pitch and ferment on the warm end to be sure to get the phenolics out of it.

 

[Jtk78]

Lower FG would mean higher alcohol. Alcohol is the primary source of calories in beer. So while your carbs might be lower, you'd probably be making a trade off with the calories.

Not necessarily, and here's my thought. I'll use a goal of 4%abv as the basis of my calcs.

3711 should finish at 1.003 or so with a healthy pitch and temp control (which I have). So a 1.033 OG - 1.003 = .03 * 131.25 = 3.94%abv

According to this calculator http://www.brewunited.com/beer_calorie_calculator.php that gives me 105 calories.

On the other hand, 1968 would probably finish in the 1.01 ballpark. So I would need on OG of 1.040 to have the same ABV, which gives me 135 calories according to above.

At 4%, each will have 78 calories from alcohol in 12oz. Assuming zero protein calories, the saison will have 27 calories from carbs, or 6.75 carbs per 12oz. The English would have 57 calories from carbs, or 14.25 carbs per 12oz.

In order for the English Ale to match the saison carbs/carbs above, it would have to come in at about 2.8%.

I'm shooting for an OG of 1.030 and hoping I can get it to finish as low as possible. If she hates it, I'll just have to suffer and drink it all myself. I don't think this will be the case, as she's had both styles, and preferred the saison.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

1 - I agree with adding some oats to the grist and fermenting warm to get some phenolics from the yeast
2 - Given the low ABV I would switch out the hops for fruitier, American varities. I've found that a reduction in malt/ABV can leave some beers lacking depth and character when using "traditional" hops. I have had good results in Saisons using hops like Citra, Jarrylo, Chinook, El Dorado, and Mosaic.

 

[Jtk78]

To give it a little more oomph for such a small beer, you could consider some aromatic and melanoidin. And perhaps some maltodex.

I'm personally a big fan of 20% oats in saisons.

Also, under pitch and ferment on the warm end to be sure to get the phenolics out of it.

I will be fermenting on the warmer side, without getting ridiculous. Just ordered (2) ferm wraps from reptile basics. I will be brewing a foreign extra stout the same day. I have a converted chest freezer that will hold 4 carboys, and 2 temp controllers. The stout warmer and freezer will be controlled with one controller, the saison warmer will be on the other controller. This will allow a delta between the two vessels. I plan to leave them in the fermenter about 3 weeks.

I will consider the other grains you mentioned.

 

[JordanKnudson]

Not necessarily, and here's my thought. I'll use a goal of 4%abv as the basis of my calcs.

3711 should finish at 1.003 or so with a healthy pitch and temp control (which I have). So a 1.033 OG - 1.003 = .03 * 131.25 = 3.94%abv

According to this calculator http://www.brewunited.com/beer_calorie_calculator.php that gives me 105 calories.

On the other hand, 1968 would probably finish in the 1.01 ballpark. So I would need on OG of 1.040 to have the same ABV, which gives me 135 calories according to above.

At 4%, each will have 78 calories from alcohol in 12oz. Assuming zero protein calories, the saison will have 27 calories from carbs, or 6.75 carbs per 12oz. The English would have 57 calories from carbs, or 14.25 carbs per 12oz.

In order for the English Ale to match the saison carbs/carbs above, it would have to come in at about 2.8%.

I'm shooting for an OG of 1.030 and hoping I can get it to finish as low as possible. If she hates it, I'll just have to suffer and drink it all myself. I don't think this will be the case, as she's had both styles, and preferred the saison.

Yeah, this is true. I suppose I meant "given a constant OG." I think I was responding more to the statement that finishing at a lower final gravity would produce less calories (which, assuming the same starting gravity, would be untrue) rather than thinking about your actual plan. Hell, I'd brew both, frankly.

 

[Jtk78]

1 - I agree with adding some oats to the grist and fermenting warm to get some phenolics from the yeast
2 - Given the low ABV I would switch out the hops for fruitier, American varities. I've found that a reduction in malt/ABV can leave some beers lacking depth and character when using "traditional" hops. I have had good results in Saisons using hops like Citra, Jarrylo, Chinook, El Dorado, and Mosaic.

Her favorite beer I've made is a Mosaic/ El Dorado combo pale ale followed closely by a NEIPA I used Citra, Galaxy, and Mosaic. I had already thought about this, so I may just change it up. Was trying to stay a little more traditional, but I'll have future brews for that.

 

[Jtk78]

Update

I brewed this last Friday evening, and based on the recommendations in this thread, did the following recipe:

75% Pilsner
17% flaked oats
8% aromatic
Mash came in at 151F and only lost 1F over the hour.
O.G. = 1.031

I chose the following for hop schedule
13.9 IBU Citra @ 60mins
12.9 IBU Mosaic @ 60mins
.75oz Citra whirlpool starting at 180F for 15mins
.75oz Mosaic whirlpool starting at 180F for 15mins

Took a hydro reading last night and it's at 1.001. Sample was not as dry as I thought it would be, but I think the oats helped keep some body. It obviously was very light, but I was hoping for a touch more flavor from the yeast. Perhaps this will come through more with another week or two in the fermenter?

I am contemplating to add an oz of Citra for a dry hop for a few days before bottling to increase the aroma and flavor profile.

Thoughts??

 

[radwizard]

Yeah, I would say go for it. Saisons are great dry hopped. Just don't go over board with a delicate beer.
I don't think you will get a lot more flavor on the yeast. What temp did you end up going with?
I think a small saison should be a thirst quencher, and a bit rustic, which it looks like you accomplished. I imagine once it is carbed up if will be a good beer. A higher carbonation could enhance some of the yeast character as well. I think a little bit of Citra would be nice, as long as it isn't over powering.
Good luck! Cheers!!

 

[Jtk78]

I started fermentation at 67F, and have been bumping it up bit by bit since. It's now sitting at a steady 73F and I planned on leaving it there. I could bump it up another degree or two without an issue though. Temp probe is taped and double insulated to side of carboy. I still have some airlock activity (I know it's not necessarily a sign of active fermentation) and the krausen has not started to drop yet.

 

[Weezy]

Be sure to post up the results! Ive never used non - traditional hops in my saisons so i look forward to hearing how it comes out.

 

[Miraculix]

Be sure to post up the results! Ive never used non - traditional hops in my saisons so i look forward to hearing how it comes out.

As I am a Saison noob, what are traditional Saison hops?

 

[Weezy]

noble varieties like saaz, hallertau, tettnang, perle, etc.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Given that the idea would be to use the hops available in a Belgian farmhouse, it would most likely be Target, Northern Brewer, Challenger, that kind of thing - the older Wye hops, increasingly being displaced by some of the newer German hops. Somewhere I've got a list of Belgian hops by acreage, to modern eyes they look rather old-fashioned, but until quite recently there was a *lot* of Target (like 2/3 of the acreage or something like that)

 

[Miraculix]

@Weezy

Thanks, I thought so. What about dry hopping with noble hops? Doesn't seem to be a common practice... do they taste crappy?

 

[Weezy]

Never tried dry hoping them, sorry. Some one will chime in.

 

[Jtk78]

Be sure to post up the results! Ive never used non - traditional hops in my saisons so i look forward to hearing how it comes out.

Will do. It's always nice when others can hear about the actual results. I understand some people forget though.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

@Weezy

Thanks, I thought so. What about dry hopping with noble hops? Doesn't seem to be a common practice... do they taste crappy?

It's not so much tasting crappy, it's just European hops have less terpenes and other compounds that come out readily at fermentation temperatures, so they're a bit less exciting to the people who are looking for a big fruit hit. But there's a long history of dry-hopping with noble hops that goes back to the days of the India trade - and more recently eg the cask version of Summer Lightning is dry-hopped with Challenger. But that's boring for people who want NEIPAs.

 

[Miraculix]

It's not so much tasting crappy, it's just European hops have less terpenes and other compounds that come out readily at fermentation temperatures, so they're a bit less exciting to the people who are looking for a big fruit hit. But there's a long history of dry-hopping with noble hops that goes back to the days of the India trade - and more recently eg the cask version of Summer Lightning is dry-hopped with Challenger. But that's boring for people who want NEIPAs.

Sounds fine to me! Will give it a try in my upcoming Helles with some Hallertauer. Thanks!