Secondary Fermentation

[NUCC98]

I was wondering if someone could shed some light on a 2-Stage Method of fermenting. I (as well as a lot of other newbies) only use a 1-stage fermenter, but was wondering if there is an improvement on clarity, and/or more "wiggle room" to play with flavors. Thanks!!!

 

[strat40]

I was wondering if someone could shed some light on a 2-Stage Method of fermenting. I (as well as a lot of other newbies) only use a 1-stage fermenter, but was wondering if there is an improvement on clarity, and/or more "wiggle room" to play with flavors. Thanks!!!

The biggest advantage in 2 stage fermenting is getting the beer off the yeast cake . This will lead to a much smoother, and more rounded flavor. Many off flavors will no longer be an issue. This is true for ales and lagers both. If you're cold conditioning your beer, this will make the final transference of the beer far easier. There will be less crap to deal with. Even if one doesn't cold condition, and just leave it warm, you'll still like the result better than if you had just used a single stage.
Hope this helps.
Tom

 

[Janx]

I agree that you'll get much better flavor if you rack to secondary within a week.

Another advantage can be re-using the yeast in your primary. We will typically brew on Saturdays. So every Saturday, there's a batch to get racked, a batch to get kegged, and a batch to get made. After racking out of the primary (a 14 gallon demijohn, so it's very clean), we just pipe the chilled beer of the new batch right on top of the yeast cake in the demijohn. In my opinion, this method is the best way to get a large pitch and a fast start to the ferment, which are great things. You can taste the beer you are racking out of the primary to make sure you don't have an infection.

You have never seen a beer start fermenting so fast.

Note I wouldn't use a yeast cake for more than 3 or 4 beers just to be safe, but I never have problems with this method.

Janx

 

[rightwingnut]

So what's the deal with secondary fermentation? You just rack from primary to secondary and let sit for another week or so, then bottle? No added yeast to the secondary? Where does priming fit in, does it require a third transfer to a priming bucket (with priming sugar) when you're ready to bottle?

 

[strat40]

So what's the deal with secondary fermentation? You just rack from primary to secondary and let sit for another week or so, then bottle? No added yeast to the secondary? Where does priming fit in, does it require a third transfer to a priming bucket (with priming sugar) when you're ready to bottle?

For lager beer, and some ales, an addition of fresh yeast gives kind of a "scrubbing" effect. It does really mellow things out. You then just wait till it drops clear, then transfer to your priming vessel, and bottle as usual. I use cornie kegs, but do the same thing. Yes, it is a bit more involved, but well worth it. If you do decide to add more yeast, make sure it's fermenting strongly, and use a high flocculating strain. This will help settle the other yeast out as well. Use the temp that the new yeast prefers, not the temp the original used. This works especially well for hefeweizens. Start with the hefe yeast, then krausen with lager yeast. After a couple days, decrease the temp to where its comfortable to the lager strain, condition, then go from there.

 

[rightwingnut]

Thanks.

 

[Janx]

I never add more yeast and can't imagine why it would be necessary, since the yeast has already bred to capacity. YMMV.

I just rack to a secondary and it stays there until I keg it. If I were bottling, then, yes, I would rack to a third container to add priming sugar.

The key benefit of a seconday to me, seems to be getting the beer off the yeast cake for a cleaner flavor.

Janx

 

[rightwingnut]

Any sense in using a plastic pail for primary and a glass carboy for secondary? Then rack it to a pail w/ bottling spigot? That would work with thw equipment I have. Obviously it would work...right? But does the glass make it better for any reason? I like the idea of glass better...not pourous.

 

[richanne]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. (Yes to all your questions.)

 

[pilkinga]

How does one know when to rack to a secondary? I have a batch in the primary right now, been there for two days, and the airlock has pretty much stopped bubbling constantly. Is this a sign it could be ready for the secondary already or is there a specific gravity way of telling?

 

[NUCC98]

How does one know when to rack to a secondary? I have a batch in the primary right now, been there for two days, and the airlock has pretty much stopped bubbling constantly. Is this a sign it could be ready for the secondary already or is there a specific gravity way of telling?

I usually just time the bubbles in the airlock. Once it's slowed to one bubble every 1 - 2 minutes, you're good to go.

 

[bena13]

After one week in the primary fermenter I just transfered my beer to the secondary glass carboy. How long should I keep it in the carboy before putting it into bottles? If I leave it in there another 10 days and don't add anymore yeast will there be enough yeast in the beer to carbonate it when I add the priming sugar? I mean how long can the yeast survive in there?

 

[Janx]

After one week in the primary fermenter I just transfered my beer to the secondary glass carboy. How long should I keep it in the carboy before putting it into bottles? If I leave it in there another 10 days and don't add anymore yeast will there be enough yeast in the beer to carbonate it when I add the priming sugar? I mean how long can the yeast survive in there?

The yeast *survives* a long long time. It goes dormant and settles to the bottom of the fermentor, but it's a LONG time before it's actually dead.

10 days is minimal, in my opinion. I do at least 10 days in the secondary before kegging. Make sure it isn't still bubbling when you go to bottle, or the residual sugar combined with your priming sugar can make grenades.

In general, enough yeast will get siphoned off the bottom of the fermentor when you rack to your bottling container, and that yeast will carbonate the beer.

In other words, you'd be hard pressed to fill a bottle with beer and end up without any living yeast cells in it, unless you filtered. You'll be fine.

Janx

 

[bena13]

Thanks Janx. I feel a lot more comfortable about what I'm doing now.

 

[NUCC98]

Thanks Janx. I feel a lot more comfortable about what I'm doing now.

Me too! Thanks!! The thought of there not being any yeast for bottling never even occured to me.....mine will be ready from the secondary to bottling, I think, by this Friday......

 

[Dude]

The yeast *survives* a long long time. It goes dormant and settles to the bottom of the fermentor, but it's a LONG time before it's actually dead.

10 days is minimal, in my opinion. I do at least 10 days in the secondary before kegging. Make sure it isn't still bubbling when you go to bottle, or the residual sugar combined with your priming sugar can make grenades.

In general, enough yeast will get siphoned off the bottom of the fermentor when you rack to your bottling container, and that yeast will carbonate the beer.

In other words, you'd be hard pressed to fill a bottle with beer and end up without any living yeast cells in it, unless you filtered. You'll be fine.

Janx

Janx, you know your stuff it seems.....I feel like a sponge going through and reading all of your input (as well as the others, thanks!). I just found this forum a few days ago after I brewed my very first batch. Obviously I've had a ton of questions.
I'm confident it's going to turn out after reading this and the other threads. I'm in secondary right now and was about to pull it and bottle it after 5 days but I think I'll keep it in there longer after reading this.
I was hoping to hae it in bottles so I could show off my first brew on Super Bowl Sunday--but it looks like I'm going to fall short of that....oh well....

Thanks again ALL OF YOU for the great info!!! I can tell I'm going to be a regular here!

 

[LaFours]

Hi guys, I'm a newbie here and have just brewed my first batch. For my next batch I would like to go secondary on it. Is it ok to have secondary at same temp as primary? I do not have an extra fridge, so I won't be able to keep the beer under 67-68 degrees. Is this ok?

 

[Janx]

Sure...no need to lower the temp in the secondary at all. It's main purpose is to remove the beer from most of the yeast bed. Lowering the temp would only slow down the fermentation.

BTW...like the name

Janx

 

[NUCC98]

BTW...like the name
Janx

If it's the same LaFours I'm familiar with...all I can say is "I even heard he's got 2 kills!"

 

[Janx]

Holy ****. I never thought I'd see the day when two such reputable
mischief makers douse their drawers at the sight of a mall security guard.
****, *****, we're gonna bust that stage like a high school
kegger! We're just gonna outwit LaFours, x-men style.

 

[LaFours]

lol..that's exactly where the name comes from. Love Kevin Smith. Thanks for the reply too!

 

[rightwingnut]

Kevin Smith's office is a block away from me. He and Jay helped my girlfriend push her car once. Used to love Mallrats...but I must admit I can't stand the guy now.

 

[Janx]

Wow I got censored!

It was a quote, rwn! I'm a very family-values kinda guy, myself, but I was just quoting a bit of cinematic art. Can I say "good girl" if I am referring to my female dog? Or "not being very pleased" about the weather?

Did y'all ever see that 2-DVD set with Kevin Smith giving talks at colleges? It's really funny and suprisingly interesting. An Evening With Kevin Smith or something like that. Highly recommended.

 

[LaFours]

Wow I got censored!

It was a quote, rwn! I'm a very family-values kinda guy, myself, but I was just quoting a bit of cinematic art. Can I say "good girl" if I am referring to my female dog? Or "not being very pleased" about the weather?

Did y'all ever see that 2-DVD set with Kevin Smith giving talks at colleges? It's really funny and suprisingly interesting. An Evening With Kevin Smith or something like that. Highly recommended.

Yea I own it. It's a great DVD to bring out at get togethers. People who've never even heard of Kevin Smith enjoy it. And vol. 2 is coming out in a few months too!

 

[Tophe]

Im also a newbie to this too.....and have a question about this. I have a batch in my plastic fermenter right now, I dont have a secondary fermenter but am considering going out and buying one now....My question is about transfering. Both my fermenter and bottler have the spigots on them so i didnt siphon last time, just used the spigot since its an inch or two from the bottom. It seems to prevent alot of the sediment from transfering over. But would it be better to transfer to the secondary carbouy by siphoning or could i use the spigot??

 

[Janx]

Im also a newbie to this too.....and have a question about this. I have a batch in my plastic fermenter right now, I dont have a secondary fermenter but am considering going out and buying one now....My question is about transfering. Both my fermenter and bottler have the spigots on them so i didnt siphon last time, just used the spigot since its an inch or two from the bottom. It seems to prevent alot of the sediment from transfering over. But would it be better to transfer to the secondary carbouy by siphoning or could i use the spigot??

You can use the spigot. But I would recommend glass for your secondary. That way you can let it sit a long time with no plastic taste coming into the beer. Also, it cleans more nicely.

Janx

 

[Tophe]

That is my plan now.....but do you put an air lock on the carboy, or just a stopper? (for the secondary)

 

[smorris]

Airlock. A stopper would be bad.

 

[Tophe]

thats what i figured....stopper seemed like a mess waiting to happen.

 

[rono73]

Hey LaFours, I don't want to burst your bubble, since I'm a Kevin Smith fan too, but he stole the name from Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid. LaFours is the guy who tracks them across the plains and makes them jump off a cliff.