Second water report

[bwible]

So here are my 2 water reports from Ward. I had one done in March 2020 and just had a second one done as a sanity check got the results today. Both similar.

Top one is the first report (sodium 57) bottom one is the one I just got (sodium 41)

Guys who know water adjustments - what would you suggest I do for lager, like a pre-pro lager or American lager?

Thanks

 

[mabrungard]

Functionally, sodium hasn’t really changed, so don’t worry about that. It’s level is fine. I wouldn’t add any more, though.

There is modest amount of bicarbonate in there, so you will have to acidify somehow. The rest of the ions are modest and usable.

 

[bwible]

Functionally, sodium hasn’t really changed, so don’t worry about that. It’s level is fine. I wouldn’t add any more, though.

There is modest amount of bicarbonate in there, so you will have to acidify somehow. The rest of the ions are modest and usable.

I’ve been using acid malt. I’m only doing 3 gallon batches, so its only been an ounce or two. Is that it? Good at 24 for sulfate and 66 for chloride?

 

[BeerAndTele]

Using acidulated malt is fine - that’s what I use fwiw - but I’m going to guess you might need more than an ounce or 2, given the alkalinity you’re starting with, plus the absence of roasted malts in a pre pro lager (I think, but tbh I havent brewed one).

Anyway, best to use a calculator like Bru’n Water or the Brewer’s Friend advanced water calculator (both free, but I prefer BF - sorry Martin!), enter your water report values, enter your grain bill, enter your salt additions (I’m guessing you’re using gypsum to bring your sulfate up a bit, yes?), then play with the amount of acid malt needed to reach your desired pH. I generally aim in the neighborhood of 5.4. I usually only need an ounce or 2 of acidulated malt in my 2.5 gal batches, but I’m starting with distilled water with no alkalinity, thus adding more salts which will bring the pH down a little, plus often brewing beers a bit more amber than what you’re making here.

Hope this helps. Cheers.

 

[bwible]

You are right, the pre-pro is pretty much 6 row and corn. Maybe a little munich malt just because munich malt makes most things better.

Thats kind of what I was asking about the sulfates and chlorides. You multiply sulfate by 3 off Wards report. So I have 15 for sulfate and 81 for chloride off the first report, 24 for sulfate and 66 for chloride off the second.

I had the first report done in March of 2020 and I thought maybe sodium and chloride were elevated due to salt runoffs from the winter. I just had this report done in June as a sanity test. The levels of both are lower now, but only slightly.

For lagers do you want lower values like this for sulfate and chloride? Most of the German water profiles have low minerals. As it sits, 81 to 15 was just over 5:1 chloride to sulfate. 66 to 24 is 2.75 to 1. Neither of these is whats considered balanced, they both favor chloride which says increases fullness or some call it maltiness. I’ve seen other people have more sulfate than chloride in these beers. Sulfate enhancing hops or bitterness.

Based on the past couple lagers I brewed which had more chloride I’m finding they don’t have the hop bitterness I was expecting. So maybe I want to add some gypsum. But I’m guessing not a whole lot. A little gypsum will also add calcium, which is also low on my report. 24 or 30 depending on which report. So maybe I try adding enough gypsum to get sulfate to 66 to match chloride?

I’ve been messing with this stuff but I’m still guessing at alot of it.

 

[BeerAndTele]

So maybe I try adding enough gypsum to get sulfate to 66 to match chloride?

Yeah I think that'd be a good place to start ... a balanced profile. (More sulfate will contribute to a crisp finish appropriate for this style IMO). Then you can adjust future brews based on your palate's preferences. For mine, I found that if I add too much gypsum, the finish gets too dry for my liking, so I use a less-is-more approach and don't stray too far from balanced profiles ... even my IPAs don't get too sulfate heavy ... but that's just my preference, ymmv.