My turn... water report

[Airborneguy]

I probably should have included this in my OP:

Since October, I’ve brewed 11 beers with this water. Of these, I’ve noticed a clear pattern: the lighter/lower-gravity beers are “lacking something”.

I can’t explain it. They’re just “thin” relative to their color and gravity. I can only blame the water. I’ve had one batch with an off flavor but I know it was from an addition of sugar mid-fermentation (and it was a stout anyway).

Every other beer has been perfectly clean, and the darker/higher-gravity batches have all been excellent.

So maybe this will help with water adjustment suggestions?

My brew club is telling me to start with distilled or get RO but as of now I do not see enough of a problem with this water to justify the extra expenses.

 

[tracer bullet]

Interesting. I'd think if a lighter beer was thin, a darker beer would be as well. Maybe I don't understand what you mean by thin. A lack of body?

If it's a lack of hops, you could consider a sulfate addition. CaSO4 for example.

If you move to RO, you'd still have to add a bunch of stuff to it, perhaps even more than now. It's a clean slate to start with, but also just that, a clean slate with nothing to contribute, good or bad.

I'm struggling to find one, but I'd think there *must* be a table somewhere as a starting point, for various styles. You don't have to stick with it but it might be a place to begin. A pale ale and a chocolate stout will have different suggestions for example. Or an English ESB or a pilsner.

 

[Airborneguy]

There’s calculators around. The Brewer’s Friend version tells you what style the profile is best for as you mess with the numbers.

I’m just looking for something simple like what I used to do back in Staten Island: one middle of the road profile that I don’t have to change batch to batch.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

one middle of the road profile that I don’t have to change batch to batch.

What about starting with "A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer (link)" with 'Cliff Notes' here (link), and making a one time adjustment for any existing minerals?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

There are general profiles by style to aim for, with a but of overlap.
When it comes to Bri'ish ales, my mild profile is suitable for brown ales, malty semi dark strong ales, dark but not really roasty ( Old Peculier type beer) etc.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The addition of 1.1 grams of Gypsum and 0.25 grams of Calcium Chloride to each 5 gallons would give each 5 gallons of this water a very middle of the road mineralization.

 

[bwible]

Here is a simplified means whereby to compute Alkalinity reduction to an approximate pH of 5.4.

Givens:
1) Alkalinity is generally reported as ppm CaCO3 (whether or not that is it's actual source).
2) We will make the generally accepted generalization that ppm = mg/L
3) The MW (molecular weight) of CaCO3 is an easy to remember 100 grams/Mol (if we ignore isotopes).
4) The charges on the ions dissociated when CaCO3 is dissolved in water are +2, and -2 respectively.
5) This means that the Equivalent Weight (EQ) of CaCO3 is 100/2 = 50 grams/Eq = 50 mg/mEq
6) If we ignore dissociation constants, then we can generalize that all chemical reactions take place on a level playing field of Equivalent weight to Equivalent weight. Or on a smaller scale, mEq to mEq.
7) The Acid Strength of 88% Lactic Acid at specifically 5.4 pH is 11.4515 mEq/mL

Now lets start with your 92 ppm (mg/L) Alkalinity water, and 5 gallons worth of it.
1) 5 gallons = 18.927 Liters.
2) 92 mg/L Aklalinity x 18.927 L ~= 1741 mg of Alkalinity (as CaCO3)
3) 1741 mg CaCO3 ÷ 50 mg/mEq of CaCO3 = 34.82 mEq's of Alkalinity (as CaCO3)
4) We know (from the carbonate species chart) that a 90% reduction in Alkalinity will get us close to pH 5.4
5) 34.82 mEq's of Alkalinity x 90% = 31.34 mEq's which need to be removed.
6) The acid strength of 88% Lactic Acid at (specifically) pH 5.4 is 11.4515 mEq/mL
7) Hearken back to #6 in the "Given's" list above. Then:
8) 31.34 mEq's Alkalinity ÷ 11.4515 mEq/mL Lactic Acid = 2.73 mL of 88% Lactic Acid

Answer = A 2.73 mL of Lactic Acid addition is required.

Out of curiosity, is there any way to apply this using acid malt? I have been using acid malt. Most sources recommend keeping acid malt under 3% of the total grist. I just bought some lactic acid and used it instead of acid malt for my first time in 25 years of brewing. Beer is still fermenting but I will be curious to see how this works out.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Out of curiosity, is there any way to apply this using acid malt? I have been using acid malt. Most sources recommend keeping acid malt under 3% of the total grist. I just bought some lactic acid and used it instead of acid malt for my first time in 25 years of brewing. Beer is still fermenting but I will be curious to see how this works out.

Yes! But only in the mash.

1.25 Weight Ounces (~35.44 grams) of a 'nominal' Acid Malt delivers essentially the Lactic Acid equivalent of 1 mL of 88% Lactic Acid.

But lot to lot, and brand to brand, Acid Malt can vary somewhat in acidity from nominal specs.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

And for those national regions in which 80% Lactic Acid may be more the available norm than 88% might be:

31.72 grams of a 'nominal' Acid Malt delivers essentially the Lactic Acid equivalent of 1 mL of 80% Lactic Acid.

 

[tracer bullet]

I’m just looking for something simple like what I used to do back in Staten Island: one middle of the road profile that I don’t have to change batch to batch.

I get it, I really do. I'll still mention... 1) You will have something to adjust depending on your beer type and base malt used. What works for a Maris Otter stout might be awful for a 2-Row Pale Ale in regards to mash pH. So you may still have some trial and error in regards to your additions, but over time you'll get it figured out. It may be as simple as the amount of acid you add but it's somewhat certain you'll benefit from at least this changing.

In regards to sulfate / chloride you can still consider it. If there's an addition or two you are already adding for the baseline, you could also know that a stout gets an extra gram of X, or a pale ale gets an extra gram of Y.

Not needed but - you might find a few easy beer dependent tweaks.

 

[Bobby_M]

Since October, I’ve brewed 11 beers with this water. Of these, I’ve noticed a clear pattern: the lighter/lower-gravity beers are “lacking something”.

Lighter colored beers with your water will land you in a high enough mash pH to extract some level of tannins. It's possible that the effect on your tongue reads as thin. In other words, if that beer didn't have tannic astringency, it might be perceived as more rich and malty. This high pH can be dealt with simply with lactic or phosphoric acid added to your strike water.

My brew club is telling me to start with distilled or get RO but as of now I do not see enough of a problem with this water to justify the extra expenses.

RO is $100 up front and about 25 cents of operating costs per batch. If that's not in the cards for you, for the lightest beers like Helles, Pils, Hefe, Wit, Blonde, etc. I would probably still dilute your tap water with about 20% bottled distilled and still use a little acid. Tweaking chloride and sulfate is about the last thing I'd worry about as it has the least impact as far as water mods go. The mash pH thing is not trivial at all. Fix that first.

 

[Bobby_M]

To better illustrate, here's my last batch of Helles which was 5% ABV with color at 4 SRM (pale yellow) if it were mashed with your water right out of the tap.

6mL of 88% Lactic gets you into the safe zone but it's a little much for a delicate beer because you can start tasting it as tangy.

If you dilute 20% distilled, which for my water requirement would be 2 gallons, you can reduce down to 4mL of lactic and still be OK.

And to just finish the circle, here's what I actually used along with 100% RO water. Few grams of calcium chloride, gypsum and salt.
3mL of lactic

 

[Airborneguy]

I was hoping you’d see this.

Thanks. I’ve been playing with distilled but have not used more than 2 gallons in a batch. If I used 3 in each batch, could I possibly skip all additions?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Assuming that this is tap water, the only issues with your very nice water are Chlorine/Chloramines and Alkalinity. Why waste money on distilled or RO?

 

[Bobby_M]

I was hoping you’d see this.

Thanks. I’ve been playing with distilled but have not used more than 2 gallons in a batch. If I used 3 in each batch, could I possibly skip all additions?

Nope. Even with pure distilled you'd still need 3-4mL of lactic on the palest of beers. If you want a pragmatic rule of thumb that is easy to implement and will definitely improve your beers, here's my best shot.

One pinch of Potassium Metabisulfite to remove chloramine.

How much lactic acid to add to your strike water:

5ml Yellow beer
4ml Copper beer
3ml Red beer
2ml Brown beer
1ml Dark Brown
0ml Jet Black

 

[Airborneguy]

I brewed a very pale rye ale today using Bobby’s recommended “easy” additions. I’ll report back in a few weeks.

 

[Airborneguy]

I just tapped the first beer brewed with lactic acid to lower the PH.

WOW!

What a difference. It is a rye ale with only maris otter, rye, and a touch of honey malt. Amarillo hops only. It's fantastic and not "lacking" (as I was describing it). I cannot wait to repeat the Dark Mild I made prior to the lactic addition.

Thanks again everyone who helped me here.