Second batch, nasty “off” flavors?

[JonGardner]

My second brew ever was a recipe kit for gingersnap saison. Today was bottling day. I tasted the beer from my hydrometer and it was pretty nasty. I have been very diligent about cleaning and sterilizing and following directions. There isn’t anything to do now except wait and see, but I was pretty disappointed in what I tasted today. FYI: to my untrained eye, fermentation went as expected, the color is just what it should be and the abv is correct. I want to learn if I should be worried about the end product (how much will it change during conditioning?) and want to know what I might have done wrong so as to not do it again. Thoughts?

 

[aceluby]

Definitely need more info. Was this an extract kit? What was nasty about it? Can you describe the flavor? What did you use for water? What temp did you ferment at?

 

[JonGardner]

It was an extract kit with steeping grains. I used bottled, filtered “spring water” bought at the grocery store. Fermentation was three weeks at a constant 76 degrees. The flavor is really hard to describe. There was a metallic sharpness to it, a little bit of a spoiled cabbage taste… not like any beer I have ever tasted. It smells fine.

 

[aceluby]

76 is pretty high, depending on the yeast strain, but what you’re describing sounds like astringency. That can come from oversteeped grains or steeping at too high a temp. I had an extract kit where that happened to me and I ended up steeping about 20-30 degrees lower than the suggested temp (I did a 5 gallon kit in 5, 1 gallon batches). In my case I think there was an issue with the grains in my kit, as it never happened before or since, but steeping at a lower temp helped.

If it is astringency, waiting won’t likely help, but you may be able to drink it by mixing your beer with other beers, soda, or experiment with juices (lemonade, grapefruit, etc…). That’s how I got through most of mine.

 

[seatazzz]

+1 to the above; 76 is pretty high. What was the brand of the kit? Was the yeast in an unmarked packet, or was there a brand name/strain on it? Most ale yeasts are happiest between 62-68°; some have ranges up to 72°, but that's the extreme high end. What temperature was the wort when you pitched? That can also be a factor; too hot, and a lot of the cells will die (known as autolyse), and give off some nasty flavors. What is left will have to work very hard to catch up.

 

[RM-MN]

76 is pretty high, depending on the yeast strain

+1 to the above; 76 is pretty high.

Did the two of you miss that this is a saison? Saisons like it warmer than most ales. From my limited experience saisons taste much better with some time in the bottle. Mine really came into their own at about 6 months.

 

[seatazzz]

Yep missed that, thanks for pointing it out. However we still don't know what yeast was in the kit? If it was saison yeast, great, but if not....

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

There was a metallic sharpness to it [hydrometer sample]

What can you tell us about the 'extract' that came with the kit?

eta: could be 'yeast bite' from yeast in suspension.

 

[pvtpublic]

It doesn't sound like astringency to me. I would suspect an issue with cleaning and sanitizing. I've also noticed metallic off flavors in cheaper extracts. However, the rotten cabbage is a strong indicator of contamination. I still need a bit more info. What is the brand, like seatazz said, what equipment and sanitizer are you using?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

a web search for gingersnap saison kits returns a couple of kits; yeast options are saison appropriate.

I tasted the beer from my hydrometer and it was pretty nasty. I have been very diligent about cleaning and sterilizing and following directions. There isn’t anything to do now except wait and see, but I was pretty disappointed in what I tasted today.

My experience with tasting hydrometer samples is that the beer changes for the better during bottle conditioning. Yest (and other sentiment) will 'drop out'.

FYI: to my untrained eye, fermentation went as expected, the color is just what it should be and the abv is correct. I want to learn if I should be worried about the end product (how much will it change during conditioning?) and want to know what I might have done wrong so as to not do it again. Thoughts?

Color suggests the 'extract' was fresh.

Give the beer a couple of weeks.

 

[seatazzz]

What @BrewnWKopperKat said. Cold crashing (basically getting the finished beer as cold as you can before bottling) can also help drop out the yeast and anything else. It can take a bit of time to learn what your finished beer will taste like, from tasting the uncarbonated finished beer. Carbonation adds its own character to most beers. My husband absolutely refuses to taste uncarbonated beer because he says it's tastes "weird"; but I like it.

 

[hotbeer]

You might consider not brewing such a unique flavored beer recipe till you get some more conventional tasting recipes behind you.

But I do agree that time might let it get better. And once it's actually well carbonated in a bottle or keg, that helps a lot for how you might perceive flavors.

If it's still in the FV, then leave it there till the beer cleans and most all the suspended stuff drops out. How long has it been in the FV?

If you've already bottled or kegged, then just sample one every 3 - 4 days and see if it's getting better or maybe you find yourself intrigued by the flavor you once thought nasty.

 

[JonGardner]

The kit was from Northern Brewer. The yeast was Fermentis Safale BE-134 (dry). They gave a fermentation temp range of 64-82. Fermentation was 3 weeks, as specified in the instructions. ABV calculates to 7.33, apparent attenuation is 91%.

 

[hotbeer]

They gave a fermentation temp range of 64-82

They who?

I always check the website of the yeast I'm using to see what the current info is. Fermentis has told me that the info on the pre-printed sachets sometimes won't match what the current testing shows. And they recommend checking their site for the current data.

But you should still be good as BE-134 is 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F)
https://fermentis.com/en/product/safale-be-134/
If it's in the recipe, and they gave you a choice of yeasts, then perhaps some yeasts had a higher upper limit. Or they've done that beer with that yeast at those temps and it was fine for them.

BE-134 is supposed to have some phenolic notes. But I don't quite equate those to spoiled cabbage that you described the bad taste as. Spoiled cabbage would be a sulfur dioxide smell to me.

 

[JonGardner]

Thanks for the responses. My description of spoiled cabbage is probably not accurate. When I tasted it, I wasn’t thinking of how to describe it, I was just trying to get it out of my mouth. I know there was a metallic taste. I am trying to learn how to determine when things go wrong and what the underlying causes might be. I guess part of that is learning to discern and use more detailed descriptors.

 

[pvtpublic]

Thanks for the responses. My description of spoiled cabbage is probably not accurate. When I tasted it, I wasn’t thinking of how to describe it, I was just trying to get it out of my mouth. I know there was a metallic taste. I am trying to learn how to determine when things go wrong and what the underlying causes might be. I guess part of that is learning to discern and use more detailed descriptors.

Check this out, it's downloadable too.
https://www.bjcp.org/education-training/education-resources/beer-faults/