schwarzbier

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RICLARK

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Does anyone have a link or comments on style guidelines for this. Traditional Ingredients and what not?
 

jdoiv

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I brewed his recipe and just made substitutions on the hops and yeast. It's in primary right now and I think it will turn out great from the one sample I've had.
 
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RICLARK

RICLARK

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Beerrific said:
Thanks for that info it was just what I was looking for.

jdoiv said:
I brewed his recipe and just made substitutions on the hops and yeast. It's in primary right now and I think it will turn out great from the one sample I've had.
What were your Substitutions? Im really intrigued to make one and so far it doesn't seem overly complicated. Are you still Lagering?
 

uwjester

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I did a schwarzbier a couple of months ago. I did an extract with grains recipe based on Jamil's book. You can substitute base grain for the extract of course. I've been pretty good about letting it lager for 3 months. From specific gravity samples, I've noticed that the chocolate malt goes a long way, but otherwise it is a fairly clean finishing beer. I'm really looking forward to drinking this one in May.

6oz. chocolate malt
6oz. crystal 40 L
3.5oz. carafa II
3.5oz. black roasted barley

5# munich LME
3.6# pilsner LME

1.75oz. 3.6%AA Hallertau @60min
.5oz 3.1%AA Hallertau @20min
.5oz 3.1%AA Hallertau @0min

2 liter starter (3 days early) of WLP830 "German Lager Yeast"
 
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RICLARK

RICLARK

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I think Im going to go this route. Now I just have to find some Hallertaur.

Brew Type: All Grain Date: 4/14/2008
Style: Schwarzbier (Black Beer) Brewer: Richard Clark
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 7.00 gal Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 63.00 % Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Actual Efficiency: 62.88 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 51.61 %
4.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 25.81 %
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 12.90 %
1.00 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6.45 %
0.50 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
1.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 21.6 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (15 min) Hops 7.1 IBU
1.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (5 min) Hops 4.8 IBU
1 Pkgs Southern German Lager (White Labs #WLP838) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Lager

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.068 SG (1.044-1.054 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018 SG (1.010-1.016 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Color: 42.8 SRM (20.0-45.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 33.5 IBU (25.0-35.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 12.0 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 6.53 % (4.20-5.40 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 6.53 %
Actual Calories: 309 cal/pint


Mash Profile Name: Double Infusion, Light Body Mash Tun Weight: 9.00 lb
Mash Grain Weight: 15.50 lb Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 0.00 gal Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Protein Rest Add 3.49 gal of water at 132.1 F 122.0 F 30 min
Saccrification Add 3.10 gal of water at 187.9 F 150.0 F 30 min
Mash Out Add 3.10 gal of water at 210.3 F 168.0 F 10 min
 

quickerNu

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I love Shiner's Black Lager and have wanted to try to copy it for a while. I am splitting the difference between uwjester and riclark and working up a mini-mash. I am still figuring out beersmith, and trying to find styrian hops. Shiner uses Styrian and Saaz.
 

uwjester

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Good idea. I think the styrians would go good with this beer, but yeah, they are hard to come by these days. I've been wanting to do a pilsner with styraian goldings, but I just haven't come across the hops for it.
 

quickerNu

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Here is what I have worked up so far. I might not use so much chocolate, and I need another bittering hop. Any suggestions? Maybe perle for bittering and saaz just for aroma? I have yet to figure out how to set up my mash on beersmith.

Type: Partial Mash
Date: 4/14/2008
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer: Neal Wendele
Boil Size: 4.36 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (5 Gallon)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Munich Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 58.82 %
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 23.53 %
0.50 lb Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops 12.2 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (30 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1 Pkgs German Bock Lager (White Labs #WLP833) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Lager



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.06 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 16.9 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 34.1 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: My Mash Total Grain Weight: 3.50 lb
Sparge Water: 4.88 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH
 

uwjester

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I would think of cutting the black barley a bit, depending on what you are shooting for. My interperetation of the style is that you don't want to create a stout-like flavor. I think you are shooting for a fairly clean lager. Too much black barley could add a coffee-like acrid flavor. Of course, I've done this style all of once, so take any advice I give with a pile of salt.
 

david_42

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As far as yeast goes, last year I split a batch and fermented half with a lager yeast and half with Nottingham. At 3 months, there was virtually no difference ... except I'd been drinking the ale half for a month.

The dark grains should be huskless and you should stick to Carafa III instead of Black Patent, Roasted barley or Chocolate. Haven't tried it, but I've been told Chocolate Wheat works well in the style.
 

quickerNu

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Riclark, I have never done a decoction mash. Guess it is time to start. Could you tell me why you picked these temps?
Protein Rest Add 3.49 gal of water at 132.1 F 122.0 F 30 min
Saccrification Add 3.10 gal of water at 187.9 F 150.0 F 30 min
 
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RICLARK

RICLARK

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quickerNu said:
Riclark, I have never done a decoction mash. Guess it is time to start. Could you tell me why you picked these temps?
Protein Rest Add 3.49 gal of water at 132.1 F 122.0 F 30 min
Saccrification Add 3.10 gal of water at 187.9 F 150.0 F 30 min
Im not doing a decoction im doing a Double Infusion and beersmith picked the temps for me. I just click adjust temp for size of equipment and it adjusts it for you according to your grain bill and MLT size.
 

jdoiv

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RICLARK said:
What were your Substitutions? Im really intrigued to make one and so far it doesn't seem overly complicated. Are you still Lagering?
I just subbed hallertau tradition for the hallertau mitelfrau since I already had it on hand. I used the WY Oktoberfest lager blend yeast as I had a cake of it ready to use. It's still sitting in the primary going through a d-rest. This just means it's sitting at room temp. I'll move it into a keg and let it sit for a couple of weeks until I free up space in the keggerator so it can lager.
 
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RICLARK

RICLARK

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I changed up my recipe and Yes the Yeast is goofy but I my plan for lagering is not going to work out.

Edit: Im going to use his recipe But Beersmith does not not have Carafa Special in the ingredients So I can't add it to my grain bill print out.

Brew Type: All Grain Date: 4/14/2008
Style: Schwarzbier (Black Beer) Brewer: Richard Clark
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 7.00 gal Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 63.00 % Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Actual Efficiency: 61.97 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 57.14 %
4.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 32.65 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4.08 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4.08 %
0.25 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2.04 %
1.25 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 21.8 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (15 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (1 min) Hops 0.4 IBU
1 Pkgs German Lager (White Labs #WLP830) Yeast-Lager

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.056 SG (1.044-1.054 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.013 SG (1.010-1.016 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Color: 27.0 SRM (20.0-45.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 26.5 IBU (25.0-35.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 8.4 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.65 % (4.20-5.40 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 5.87 %
Actual Calories: 243 cal/pint


Mash Profile Name: Double Infusion, Light Body Mash Tun Weight: 9.00 lb
Mash Grain Weight: 12.25 lb Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 1.00 gal Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Protein Rest Add 2.76 gal of water at 134.8 F 122.0 F 30 min
Saccrification Add 2.45 gal of water at 190.7 F 150.0 F 30 min
Mash Out Add 2.51 gal of water at 211.6 F 168.0 F 10 min
 

the_bird

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Wait, why are you doing two pounds of crystal? A schwarzbier isn't really sweet, the examples I've enjoyed have had a high, dark fruit note, but no sweetness. I'm of the opinion that the huskless, de-bittered Carafe is absolutely critical for the style as well; chocolate malt and roasted barley are really making this into a stout (a sweet stout of some kind).

A good schwarzbier is a very subtle style, IMHO; malty, but not too malty, a little roasty but not too roasty. It's not that big a beer. Not much hop flavor, either; not 2.5 ounces in the last fifteen minutes. I've picked up a light, dark fruity note, not sure if that was the yeast or something from the dark grains (I'm temped to make one with a TINY amount of Special B). It's a dry beer, though, it's not full, it's not cloying, it can be an absolutely wonderful, drinkable, complex beer. Don't overdo it.

I'd listen to Jamil's podcast on the style (fairly recent, IIRC); lots of great information.

EDIT: I should clarify, I don't necessarily think you've put together a BAD recipe (sweeter than I usually brew, but that's a preference thing) - but that's not a schwarzbier.
 
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RICLARK

RICLARK

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the_bird said:
Wait, why are you doing two pounds of crystal? A schwarzbier isn't really sweet, the examples I've enjoyed have had a high, dark fruit note, but no sweetness. I'm of the opinion that the huskless, de-bittered Carafe is absolutely critical for the style as well; chocolate malt and roasted barley are really making this into a stout (a sweet stout of some kind).

A good schwarzbier is a very subtle style, IMHO; malty, but not too malty, a little roasty but not too roasty. It's not that big a beer. Not much hop flavor, either; not 2.5 ounces in the last fifteen minutes. I've picked up a light, dark fruity note, not sure if that was the yeast or something from the dark grains (I'm temped to make one with a TINY amount of Special B). It's a dry beer, though, it's not full, it's not cloying, it can be an absolutely wonderful, drinkable, complex beer. Don't overdo it.

I'd listen to Jamil's podcast on the style (fairly recent, IIRC); lots of great information.

EDIT: I should clarify, I don't necessarily think you've put together a BAD recipe (sweeter than I usually brew, but that's a preference thing) - but that's not a schwarzbier.
Im trying to make up for lost efficiency through extra grain and without losing the darkness of style. I will re formulate it in beersmith knocking down the Crystal and other specialty and adding the carafre. I tried listening to The link to Jamil but it wont work for me the screen freezes I think there is something wrong with my player.
 

the_bird

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If your efficiency is bad, you don't want to just add specialty grains - keep the percentages the same and increase everything proportionally. His recipe's only assuming 70%, and if it comes in a little on the small side - for this beer, that's perfectly OK. Look at the guidelines, the OG can be as low as 1.044 and be "in style" (FWIW).
 

the_bird

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Oh, and right-click on the link to the show and choose "save as" - you'll be able to download the podcast (it's a MP3 file) instead of having to listen to it in your browser. That might help.
 
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RICLARK

RICLARK

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the_bird said:
Oh, and right-click on the link to the show and choose "save as" - you'll be able to download the podcast (it's a MP3 file) instead of having to listen to it in your browser. That might help.
Thanks Bird I listened to the show and went with his recipe I Edited and posted new. Thanks
 

quickerNu

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Alright, I ordered my mini-mash ingredients, and enough extra to change up a bit still if I need to. I have plenty of WL 833, so I will use that. Any suggestions on water/grain ratio in the mash? My cooler is only 2 gallon, but I do have pH adjusted.

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Munich LME (8.0 SRM) Extract 57.14 %
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 22.86 %
0.75 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 8.57 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 5.71 %
0.25 lb Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 2.86 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.86 %
1.00 oz Pearle [8.00 %] (60 min) Hops 27.9 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (30 min) Hops 5.4 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1 Pkgs German Bock Lager (White Labs #WLP833) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Lager



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.20 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 33.3 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 42.9 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: My Mash Total Grain Weight: 3.75 lb
Sparge Water: 2.93 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp
30 min Step Add 2.81 qt of water at 134.1 F 122.0 F
30 min Step Add 3.00 qt of water at 182.6 F 150.0 F
 

uwjester

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Very nice recipe. I'm not an expert in all grain, but could you get DMS from the pilsner malt? If so, you could bump your boil time to 90 minutes and adjust your hops a bit.
 

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