A friend and I done into the deep end and went halfsies on a 1/2 bbl Spike system. We've both been brewing for almost 10 years but nothing larger than a 5 gal batch. Setting efficiency aside for the moment, will our 5 gal recipes scale simply by doubling, tripling, etc. the ingredients?
Scaling recipes up
- Thread starter layd0g
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Basically, yes, they scale linearly.
But... Your water volumes will be different due equipment differences, such as a different boil off rate and (inherent) losses in the various (sub)processes, such as wort left behind with trub in the kettle, etc.
You'll also have different efficiencies, so you may end up with higher or lower volumes, gravities, hop utilization (bitterness), etc.
But... Your water volumes will be different due equipment differences, such as a different boil off rate and (inherent) losses in the various (sub)processes, such as wort left behind with trub in the kettle, etc.
You'll also have different efficiencies, so you may end up with higher or lower volumes, gravities, hop utilization (bitterness), etc.
Awesome, thank you! We knew efficiency would change the recipe, jus wasn't sure about the recipe itself. Seems like it would scale, but figured I'd ask.
Next question along these lines, where do you even start trying to figure out the water volumes on a completely new system? I've used Beersmith and Brewfather for previous systems and just updated profiles that were already in the software.
Next question along these lines, where do you even start trying to figure out the water volumes on a completely new system? I've used Beersmith and Brewfather for previous systems and just updated profiles that were already in the software.
One thing I have noticed with brewing a mix of 1 gallon, 2.5 gallon and 5 gallon batches is that chill time makes a noticeable difference on hop character and bitterness. It is worth thinking about how fast you chill and look out for differences between the systems.
Boil off may be a bit higher than with your 5 gallon system, but not necessarily double. The surface area of the wort in your kettle, how hard you boil (a mere simmering/surface rippling is plenty), outdoors/indoors/wind are major factors in evaporation rate.
Under the same conditions as your 5 gallon rig, I'd estimate 1.5 times the boil off, and start there. It's easier to add water than boil off 2 quarts too much. Or if it happens, just let it be, and adjust it for next time.
2 quarts in 10 gallons (40 quarts) is only 5% difference in volume/OG/FG/ABV. For example 10.5 gallons vs. 10 gallons / 1.057 vs. 1.060 / 1.0095 vs. 1.010 / 6.175% vs 6.5%
Under the same conditions as your 5 gallon rig, I'd estimate 1.5 times the boil off, and start there. It's easier to add water than boil off 2 quarts too much. Or if it happens, just let it be, and adjust it for next time.
2 quarts in 10 gallons (40 quarts) is only 5% difference in volume/OG/FG/ABV. For example 10.5 gallons vs. 10 gallons / 1.057 vs. 1.060 / 1.0095 vs. 1.010 / 6.175% vs 6.5%
Boiloff rate could be quite different, and can make a noticeable difference. I wouldn't expect to scale that linearly. Figure out your boiloff, use that to determine your pre- and post-boil volumes, then work your efficiency and grain/hop bills from there.
Awesome, thank you!
Could I simply set the system up in the place that we plan to brew, put in 30 g of water and let it boil for an hour to get the boiloff? Surely it isn't that simple... is it?
Could I simply set the system up in the place that we plan to brew, put in 30 g of water and let it boil for an hour to get the boiloff? Surely it isn't that simple... is it?
Yes, it's that simple!
But I wouldn't waste the energy to get that datapoint, I'd brew a batch with it, while I'm there.
If it helps I brew on that system and my boil off rate is 1.5 to 2 gallon per hour.
Cheers!
Cheers!
Awesome, thank you!!
I'd opt for the "water brew" first myself but to each their own.
I would start with approximately the amount of water you think you'll need. If you're aiming for 1/2bbl batch I'd probably start closer to 20 gallons preboil than 30 gallons.
I would start with approximately the amount of water you think you'll need. If you're aiming for 1/2bbl batch I'd probably start closer to 20 gallons preboil than 30 gallons.
I concur, had to use the ol' (5 gallon) immersion chiller on my last 1/4 barrel brewday.. hop aroma went pffft straight to the atmosphere. Now I have backup hose connectors for the plate heat exchanger. Not sure how it affected bitterness but it sure doesn't have the aroma, probably took 30-45 minutes to cool and transfer. Still working on that 4th corny but gosh-darn-it a lesson has been learned.
I will also add to measure your dead space when cleaning / breaking in the new rig. you'll likely have a gallon or so left behind to account for. My boilermaker is 1-1.5 gallons out of the 30 gallon BK
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Spike has BeerSmith profiles available that you can simply import into the software. I did that before I started using my setup. Also, if you have the SCL lid, your boiloff will be 1/2 of what's listed in the profile. I confirmed that with my first batch.
You'll also want the BeerSmith profiles to account for things like MT dead space, HERMS coil volume and such.
I would also advise performing any calibration steps for the PIDs as instructed. I did that for the control panel I got from Electric Brewing Supply, since I didn't get my Spike system all at one go. Basically, you want to calibrate for the MT reading more than anything else (it's the most important temperature reading).
You'll also want the BeerSmith profiles to account for things like MT dead space, HERMS coil volume and such.
I would also advise performing any calibration steps for the PIDs as instructed. I did that for the control panel I got from Electric Brewing Supply, since I didn't get my Spike system all at one go. Basically, you want to calibrate for the MT reading more than anything else (it's the most important temperature reading).
I know BS had the profiles, but I'm not a fan of their mobile app, I prefer Brewfather and I can't seem to find any profiles for that app. I suppose I could look at the BS settings and input them into a new equip profile in Brewfather.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
I don't use the mobile app but the full app installed on my computer. I've been using BS for long enough to not want to switch. You might be able to import the profile into the other app.
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