sanitizer at walmart

[benharper13]

Other then bleach does Walmart sale something I could use for sanitizing?

 

[Germelli1]

vinegar...to go with the bleach

Seriously, you can make a no rinse sanitizer with bleach and vinegar.

I can post the link to the podcast where inventor of star san recommending it

 

[benharper13]

What's the combo? One to one mix?

 

[KevinW]

Oxyclean FREE, I stress the free cause you don't want to use the variety with perfumes or soaps!!
1 Tbs for each gallon of very hot but not boiling water and soak for 45-60 minutes or longer!!!
I used it in a carboy and there was no residue or anything left in it. The oxyclean dissolved all of the trub and sediment left clinging to the sides of the glass!!
Make sure you rinse it well afterwards!!

 

[Germelli1]

NEVER MIX THE TWO DIRECTLY...it can release toxic gases.

But the dilution Charlie Tally recommends is 5 gallons of water, 1 oz of bleach added to the water, then 1 oz of vinegar added to the bleach/water (which is half of a tablespoon of each).

The bleach is the sanitizer and the vinegar lowers the pH to make it more potent of a killer.

The chemist that invented star san, Charlie Tally, talks about it here (about a third of the way through): http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr03-29-07.mp3

 

[Germelli1]

Oxyclean free is a FANTASTIC cleanser! I have never used it to sanitize but it soaks off any crud left on my gear.

 

[benharper13]

Is there any end taste of bleach when using that

 

[Germelli1]

I have used it as a sanitizer many times. If you were to drink the sanitizer solution you wouldn't taste bleach since it is well below the taste threshold at 80 ppm.

The chlorine in bleach evaporates very soon once exposed to open air so that gets rid of any tastes as well.

People claim that it could make the yeast produce phenols, but at that dilution I have never had a single issue

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

vinegar...to go with the bleach

Seriously, you can make a no rinse sanitizer with bleach and vinegar.

I can post the link to the podcast where inventor of star san recommending it

Dude. No. Poison. That episode of Brew Strong has the guy from 5 star saying that you can in fact make sanitizer by mixing bleach and vinegar, but he goes on to strongly recommend that the average homebrewer never attempt this. The chance for creating a highly poisonous situation is too great. Homebrewers sometimes have a tendency to drink while brewing. Drinking + Mixing hazardous chemicals = a bad time.

What's the combo? One to one mix?

Dont do it. If you know the proper procedure and measure everything in exact quantity and do each step the correct way, you will not release toxic gas. If you fail in any way, you could be DEAD. Suck it up, order Starsan. Do Not mix vinegar and bleach to make sanitizer.

Oxyclean FREE, I stress the free cause you don't want to use the variety with perfumes or soaps!!
1 Tbs for each gallon of very hot but not boiling water and soak for 45-60 minutes or longer!!!
I used it in a carboy and there was no residue or anything left in it. The oxyclean dissolved all of the trub and sediment left clinging to the sides of the glass!!
Make sure you rinse it well afterwards!!

Oxyclean is a great cleaner, but it will not sanitize your gear. Use oxyclean to get the crud off, water to rinse the oxyclean out, and starsan to sanitize.


The short answer to your question about what sanitizer to buy at walmart is:

household bleach + water.

The better answer is: dont scrimp on sanitizer. it's the most important part of your process, period. Order some Starsan online. It might seem expensive, but one bottle goes a LONG LONG way, especially if you use distilled water. It will store almost indefinitely and when diluted properly it is completely no-rinse. It will cause no harmful effects in your beer, and you'll never have to worry if the bleach levels you used were too high.

 

[billtzk]

You need to clean all of your equipment. You need to sanitize everything that will touch the wort post boil. Cleaning removes dirt and grime. Sanitizing kills bacteria and yeasts and molds that will infect your beer. Read all of John Palmer's Chapter 2 - Brewing Preparations, which covers both cleaning and sanitation.

Bleach has to be thoroughly rinsed off. You will taste it if you don't. It takes a long time (20 minutes) to sanitize anything in bleach. You risk re-introducing bad bacteria to your equipment when you rinse. For these reasons, bleach is not the best sanitizer. Iodophor or Star San are much better.

 

[Germelli1]

Dude. No. Poison. That episode of Brew Strong has the guy from 5 star saying that you can in fact make sanitizer by mixing bleach and vinegar, but he goes on to strongly recommend that the average homebrewer never attempt this. The chance for creating a highly poisonous situation is too great.

He never once says anything along the lines of that. He says "Don't mix this if you are uncomfortable with your measurements." He never strongly recommends that the average homebrewer never attempt it.

There is no danger adding vinegar to .5 tablespoon of bleach diluted by 5 gallons of water.

What Charlie Tally does say however is that people use "scare tactics" (his exact words) to discredit bleach...you seem to fall into that category.

 

[Germelli1]

Bleach has to be thoroughly rinsed off. You will taste it if you don't. It takes a long time (20 minutes) to sanitize anything in bleach. You risk re-introducing bad bacteria to your equipment when you rinse. For these reasons, bleach is not the best sanitizer. Iodophor or Star San are much better.

More BS.

Have you ever used bleach? Are you speaking from experience?

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

He never once says anything along the lines of that. He says "Don't mix this if you are uncomfortable with your measurements." He never strongly recommends that the average homebrewer never attempt it.

There is no danger adding vinegar to .5 tablespoon of bleach diluted by 5 gallons of water.

What Charlie Tally does say however is that people use "scare tactics" (his exact words) to discredit bleach...you seem to fall into that category.

I think we were listening to different pod casts, I was referring to the brew strong episode on sanitizers, I think you were referring to a basic brewing podcast no?

Anyway. If you choose to use this method of sanitization, by all means go for it. Can you do it safely? Sure, but for my dollar it's worth it to know that if I make a mistake my life is not on the line.

I think it's reckless to recommend to someone to use this method not knowing their level of competency or understanding of the procedure, or the potential consequences. (absolutely not implying anything about the OP or anyone else on the board, just looking out for general safety).

 

[billtzk]

Have you ever used bleach? Are you speaking from experience?

No, I have never used bleach. My comments are based on John Palmer's book. He says

Bleach
The cheapest and most readily available sanitizing solution is made by adding 1 tablespoon of bleach to 1 gallon of water (4 ml per liter). Let the items soak for 20 minutes, and then drain. Rinsing is supposedly not necessary at this concentration, but many brewers, myself included, rinse with some boiled water anyway to be sure of no off-flavors from the chlorine.

 

[Germelli1]

I think it's reckless to recommend to someone to use this method not knowing their level of competency or understanding of the procedure, or the potential consequences. (absolutely not implying anything about the OP or anyone else on the board, just looking out for general safety).

Good point! I tried to give very explicit and safe directions in post #5 of this thread to avoid a hazardous situation.

I used to never recommend using bleach as a sanitizer. When I moved home from school I can't get a sanitizer in the area so I was forced to do some research on alternatives or home recipes for sanitizers and learned a lot.

I still use heat whenever possible, but since my massive research session and brewing using solely bleach as a sanitizer for the whole summer I am very confident in its ability in brewing applications... even more confident in recommending it.

 

[Germelli1]

No, I have never used bleach. My comments are based on John Palmer's book. He says

That is 10 times the dilution ratio you need for bleach to be a useful sanitizer. At 800 ppm as opposed to the 80ppm ratio Five Star chemicals recommends, I am sure you would be able to taste it

 

[benharper13]

so if i use the bleach. but no vineger i should rinse with boiled water? i also have no sar san so with my brew going right now i have limited options

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

so if i use the bleach. but no vineger i should rinse with boiled water? i also have no sar san so with my brew going right now i have limited options

If you use the recommended concentration of bleach, you can typically get away with rinsing with hot tap water. You have to consider that the hot water has been sitting in the hot water tank at 130+ degrees for hours, and is more than likely sanitized from the combination of chlorine and heat.

When I was using bleach as a sanitizer I always rinsed with HOT tap water, and I have never had an infection. (knock on wood ).

If you want to get super critical of it, boil the water to for sure kill any bugs that may be swimming in it before rinsing.

 

[Germelli1]

The vinegar is just insurance on the bleach's sanitizing capabilities, but doesn't affect its no-rinse ability. It is not required for it to work, but is also safer to omit if you are scared of mixing vinegar and bleach.

Rinsing with boiled water is a great idea if you are weary of using bleach as a sanitizer. It will remove any chance of leaving chlorine flavors staying in your beer.

 

[Germelli1]

If you use the recommended concentration of bleach, you can typically get away with rinsing with hot tap water. You have to consider that the hot water has been sitting in the hot water tank at 130+ degrees for hours, and is more than likely sanitized from the combination of chlorine and heat.

When I was using bleach as a sanitizer I always rinsed with HOT tap water, and I have never had an infection. (knock on wood ).

If you want to get super critical of it, boil the water to for sure kill any bugs that may be swimming in it before rinsing.

I usually "pickle" my fermenters in a stronger bleach solution when they are not being used. I also rinse them out with hot tap water and never had a problem!

Also I want to apologize since I was a bit snappy in this thread. Its just with all of the research and testing I conducted I get frustrated when I see misinformation passed along. I admit I could have presented it in a better manner to present the facts to the OP to let him make his own decision.

Strat_thru_Marshall and billtzk I am sorry if my posts caused any offense to be taken!

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Strat_thru_Marshall and billtzk I am sorry if my posts caused any offense to be taken!

not at all. you've obviously done the research and know from first hand experience!

 

[Brewminator]

Other then bleach does Walmart sale something I could use for sanitizing?

3% H2O2 is used medically for cleaning wounds, removing dead tissue, and as an oral debriding agent. Peroxide stops slow (small vessel) wound bleeding/oozing, as well. However, recent studies have suggested that hydrogen peroxide impedes scarless healing as it destroys newly formed skin cells.[19] Most over-the-counter peroxide solutions are not suitable for ingestion.


It breaks down fast and is just Hydrogen and Oxygen.
No taste that I know of.

 

[benharper13]

Ok I filled my primary and put a little over a half table spoon since its almost full ill be ready for it in about an hour so I'm letting it sit. For my airlock and lid I could probably just rinse them off in the bucket right?

 

[benharper13]

Can't you buy iodine at Walmart too. Would that work?

 

[Germelli1]

3% H2O2 is used medically for cleaning wounds, removing dead tissue, and as an oral debriding agent. Peroxide stops slow (small vessel) wound bleeding/oozing, as well. However, recent studies have suggested that hydrogen peroxide impedes scarless healing as it destroys newly formed skin cells.[19] Most over-the-counter peroxide solutions are not suitable for ingestion.


It breaks down fast and is just Hydrogen and Oxygen.
No taste that I know of.

Now that is an option that I never considered that seems pretty viable.

From an economical stand point I know from a 3 qt. bottle of bleach I can make almost 2000 gallons of sanitizer (1920 gallons to be exact). It is a one time use since the chlorine evaporates out so fast as opposed to starsan that can be stored indefinitely and used time and time again

 

[Germelli1]

Can't you buy iodine at Walmart too. Would that work?

Yes that was actually recommended to me by the local homebrew store employee but I never experimented with it.